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Football Commentators Thread (Part 19)
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sat-ire
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“Klopp isn't silly - he will only have a pop at the pundits he knows the Liverpool fans hate.

Its where Roy Hodgson started to go wrong - he praised Sir Alex Ferguson and Man U generally which was a big no no with the Liverpool supporters.

That was even he just turned rubbish..”

So what might Liverpool fans think?

Here's Liverpool fanzine editor Steven Kelly writing for Irish Examiner in their 'Terrace Talk' feature today:-

Quote:
“That desperate cloak of reasonableness I tried on after Bournemouth was a bad disguise which fooled nobody. Generally the response was “you feeling okay?” Fair enough, but what else can you do but try to put it behind you? Fat chance of that if your goalie mouths off to Gary Neville and mocks his managerial ‘career’.

They all think like that in football. What have you ever done, son? Well, Neville may be a loudmouth but there’s some achievement backing it up, surely?

And he’s not spouted anything a lot of Liverpool fans haven’t said, either. Playing to the gallery and exploiting its distaste for all things Mancunian only gets you so far.

As far as your next error, in fact — which took him 20 whole minutes.

Klopp had already defended him by citing eight opportunities to clear danger before his compatriot’s Bournemouth blunder.

Isn’t that true of every goal scored? The manager’s been decisive early with the likes of Mignolet and Sakho, so it’s naive to expect him to say anything else I guess.

More screw-ups like Bournemouth and West Ham and maybe he’ll start mocking Neville’s wretched coaching too? At this level, where admittedly Klopp’s Liverpool are fresh-faced infants, this won’t camouflage things for long.”

It really is a bit of a cop-out to have a go at Neville(s) just because of his past allegiances in the hope that's what Liverpool supporters will focus on. As mentioned, this ignores the fact that it was the resident Liverpool contingent who threw most of the goalkeeper-aimed punches this - and last - week.

It's also a cop-out to bring up his coaching.

None of us needs to be a coach to spot the basic errors in recent Liverpool goalkeeping displays...

Quite what someone's coaching experience has to do with having an opinion, especialy one which so many share, is beyond me.

Then again, he really is "playing to the gallery" but Liverpool fans aren't stupid either.

Having aid all that I do admire Klopp for attempting to defend his player; I personally think there were better - and less obvious - ways to do it.
SSReporters
12-12-2016
First time FOX have the MLS Cup Final and they just about missed the winning penalty.

http://awfulannouncing.com/soccer/fo...-cup-2016.html
BFGArmy
12-12-2016
Not saying I agree entirely with what Klopp's said but I think it's a good tactic by him.

Let's be honest - his comments are probably for show and now rather than it all being focused on Karius, much of the attention will be on a Klopp v Sky pundits feud which takes the heat off Karius a bit.

And that may well play well to the Liverpool fan base - Liverpudlians are unlikely to side with a Murdoch company.

Taking it back to the Sky coverage, the big problem for me is that the analysis by the Sky pundits on Karius is frankly a bit lazy.
All they seem to have said is 'Shut up and focus on keeping' (which funny as it was, really isn't award-winning analysis) and 'Poor goalkeeping'.

Sure it's good for a headline - and I found Carragher's 'Shut up' comment hilarious - but it's not adding anything insightful

Karius was voted the best keeper after Neuer in Germany last year so was clearly not always as bad as he has been this season. Therefore there's plenty of ways to go with the discussion beyond the obvious 'Karius is awful' line.

It would be interesting to hear even a brief mention or discussion over why the difference in performance between last and this season exists (for example is playing in the Bundesliga different to the PL?), why players often take time to settle into a new side, whether these were weaknesses Karius has always had, how other goalkeepers who have slow starts (e.g. De Gea) have worked to improve.

Instead Carragher and Neville have very much gone done the easy route of 'Oh isn't he dreadful' and ignored that he had any history pre-PL.
Not saying I expect the pundits to cover all the above or to know the answers but it's a shame Sky have been so safe in their analysis.

I take all the above back if they actually have attempted to analyse the above.

--
All the above said I'm not a Liverpool fan so the longer Karius makes errors the better.
--
TLDR: I see what Klopp is trying to do, think in any case Sky's analysis of Karius is a bit lazy, Karius and the Sky pundits should all learn to accept/ignore criticism.
The Difference
12-12-2016
Monday 12th December - BT Sport 2

Live UEFA Champions League Round of 16 & UEFA Europa League Round of 32 Draws

Lynsey Hipgrave presented from the studio alongside Owen Hargreaves, Michael Owen and Steve McManaman

BT Sport took a clean feed of the audio and pictures from UEFA headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland for both draws
pakokelso93
12-12-2016
BL2: Stuttgart v Hannover - BTS3
Comm
: Tim Caple
coventrywooo
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by The Difference:
“Monday 12th December - BT Sport 2

Live UEFA Champions League Round of 16 & UEFA Europa League Round of 32 Draws

Lynsey Hipgrave presented from the studio alongside Owen Hargreaves, Michael Owen and Steve McManaman

BT Sport took a clean feed of the audio and pictures from UEFA headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland for both draws”

Matt Smith was in Nyon for BT..
Tony Yeboah
12-12-2016
Villarreal v Atletico- Rob Palmer and Terry Gibson
Everton v Arsenal- Alistair Mann for the BBC
coventrywooo
12-12-2016
Bolton Wanderers v Gillingham - Monday, 12 December 2016 - League One
Sky Sports 1 / Sky Sports 1 HD

Presented by: George Gavin
Guest: Peter Beagrie
Commentators: Gary Weaver and Garry Birtles
Reporter: David Craig
digiremote
12-12-2016
From earlier:

Fiorentina v Sassulo - BT Sport 2.

Commentators: Dave Farrar and Chris Perry
Tony Yeboah
12-12-2016
Everton v Arsenal- Steve Bower and Graeme Le Saux for NBC
Bournemouth v Leicester- Gary Taphouse and Terry Gibson

Middlesbrough v Liverpool- Phil Blacker and David Prutton
Sunderland v Chelsea- Kevin Keatings and Davie Provan
West Ham v Burnley- Jim Proudfoot and Tony Gale
Crystal Palace v Manchester United- Peter Drury and Kevin Kilbane
Manchester City v Watford- Gary Weaver and Andy Hinchcliffe
Stoke v Southampton- Joe Speight and Neil McCann
Spurs v Hull- Tony Jones and Keith Andrews
West Brom v Swansea- Ian Crocker and Andy Walker

FC Twente v AZ Alkmaar- Phil Blacker
sat-ire
12-12-2016
Gary Neville responds to Klopp suggesting he wouldn't know a good player because of his managerial past

Quote:
“Haha. I'm not a chef but I know a good steak !”

Another response might have been:- you may think I couldn't spot a good player but anyone can spot a bad one...

And on it rumbles

As a deflecting tactic, it's not a great idea to keep people mentioning your goalkeeper
Tony Yeboah
12-12-2016
Bolton v Gillingham- John Roder for the world feed
bwfcol
13-12-2016
I look forward to hearing John Roder later on our emphatic win

I don't think there's a "winner" in this LFC vs pundits thing, the criticism afer the Bournemouth game seemd fair, Karius responded. The "Shut up & get on with it" was a bit silly and Karius was certainly to blame for 1 goal on Sunday, if not 2. The pundits rightly said this & now instead of making it go away, Klopp has made the story carry on & if Karius makes a mistake at 'Boro on Weds, it will be highlighted. By keeping Karius in focus, has he not heaped more pressure on him?

Personally, I don't think club ties or failed manager careers need to be brought into it, a pundit either has no managerial experience or has been fired pretty much. There's not one pundit on UK TV with a completely successful managerial career. I don't think things need to become personal & both sides have brought this into it. Klopp is playing a PR game clearly.

Sky has a run in with Jose at Chelsea over Costa's behaviour, a similar situation. When you have opinions, it's going to happen. Rio has criticised Utd, as has Scholes (and I believe people at that club were annoyed with him too). It seems to me that modern footballers/managers are a bit precious & can't cope with criticism more than pundits are going too far. However, any side making it personal just isn't needed.
Tony Yeboah
13-12-2016
Spurs v Hull- Steve Bower for the BBC
Tony Yeboah
13-12-2016
West Ham v Burnley- Alistair Bruce-Ball for the BBC
Boro v Liverpool- Jonthan Pearce for the BBC
Stoke v Soton- Tony Husband for the BBC
Tony Yeboah
13-12-2016
Sunderland v Chelsea- Guy Mowbray for the BBC
Tony Yeboah
13-12-2016
Palace v Man Utd- Simon Brotherton for the BBC
WBA v Swansea- Martin Fisher for the BBC
neilwatson
13-12-2016
Steve Bower in London and Jonathan Pearce in the North East. I thought that would be the other way round
Tony Yeboah
13-12-2016
Man City v Watford- Steve Wilson for the BBC
CardioCortez
13-12-2016
Sky will be thrilled Klopp is having this feud with their pundits. Plenty of media attention.
clever3000
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by bwfcol:
“I look forward to hearing John Roder later on our emphatic win ”

Not a good performance.

Gary Weaver isnt a good omen for Gillingham! Good commentator though, he goes under the radar when talking about commentators but he is very good.
BFGArmy
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by CardioCortez:
“Sky will be thrilled Klopp is having this feud with their pundits. Plenty of media attention.”

And forgive me being cynical but just look which team is playing on the next MNF. Wonder if Neville will appear....

I do wonder why the Nevilles and Carragher are getting so upset though (except if it's for show). If you actually look at what was said it's 30 seconds of an interview and really not that bad by Karius at all.
Many a football pundit get all sorts of criticism and either ignore it or accept it with good grace.

I worryingly quite liked Chris Sutton's comments on the whole saga comparing Gary and Phil to the Mitchell Brothers.
I'm now to take a long shower to think about what I've just said.
TheSubaru2012
13-12-2016
Ian Wright, Alan Stubbs & Michael Owen in the studio with Jake for coverage of Everton V Arsenal.
CardioCortez
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by BFGArmy:
“And forgive me being cynical but just look which team is playing on the next MNF. Wonder if Neville will appear....

I do wonder why the Nevilles and Carragher are getting so upset though (except if it's for show). If you actually look at what was said it's 30 seconds of an interview and really not that bad by Karius at all.
Many a football pundit get all sorts of criticism and either ignore it or accept it with good grace.

I worryingly quite liked Chris Sutton's comments on the whole saga comparing Gary and Phil to the Mitchell Brothers.
I'm now to take a long shower to think about what I've just said.”

I don't think they've come across as upset? They've added some fuel to the fire but it was only a funny comment back.
TheSubaru2012
13-12-2016
Everton v Arsenal - Tuesday, 13 December 2016 - Premier League
BT Sport 1 / BT Sport 1 HD, BT Sport 4K UHD

Presented by: Jake Humphrey
Guests: Ian Wright, Michael Owen and Alan Stubbs
Commentators: Ian Darke, Steve McManaman and Glenn Hoddle
Reporter: Des Kelly

Say what you say about the commentary running order but Darke has got some decent games recently.
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