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Football Commentators Thread (Part 19)


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Old 01-08-2016, 14:44
Paul_Crawford
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For me GN wil not have the same impact as he did before, no one will take him seriously he is a failed manager, he has got no credibility at all, pontificating about other teams faults, and how they should improve.

I can imagine the likes of Mouhrino, Wenger, Cunte, will be shouting at their screens " You know nothing about football"!!!
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Old 01-08-2016, 14:58
sat-ire
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For me GN wil not have the same impact as he did before, no one will take him seriously he is a failed manager, he has got no credibility at all, pontificating about other teams faults, and how they should improve.

I can imagine the likes of Mouhrino, Wenger, Cunte, will be shouting at their screens " You know nothing about football"!!!
Actually, the named managers are the very last people who will be doing that.

It will only be a certain amount of "lay" viewers who would be "shouting" that at the screen.

This issue has already been extensively discussed in this very thread. All the points raised then still apply
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Old 01-08-2016, 15:02
Mark.
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For me GN wil not have the same impact as he did before, no one will take him seriously he is a failed manager, he has got no credibility at all, pontificating about other teams faults, and how they should improve.

I can imagine the likes of Mouhrino, Wenger, Cunte, will be shouting at their screens " You know nothing about football"!!!
There's a significant difference between reacting to a match as it's unfolding (being a manger) and analysing it after it's happened (being a pundit).
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Old 01-08-2016, 19:10
Tony Yeboah
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Saturday 6 August on RangersTV

Rangers v Hamilton- Tom Miller and John Brown
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Old 01-08-2016, 20:22
D.M.N.
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Didn't realise ITV have got an Arsenal Man C friendly next Sunday?
Correct - https://twitter.com/superarsenal771/...21828551557120
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:52
THFC23
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Does anybody know when we can expect the annual BBC football press release??
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:03
bwfcol
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Does anybody know when we can expect the annual BBC football press release??
I'd expect it this week given the FL starts on Sat and probably prefer not to clash with Olympics
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:19
Tony Yeboah
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Sunday 7 August on ITV

Arsenal v Manchester City- Presented by Celina Hinchcliffe, with commentary by Joe Speight and Andy Townsend, and analysis from Kevin Campbell and Dietmar Hamann.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:26
mr williams
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BT Showcase have the Wayne Rooney testimonial FTA on Freeview 59 on Wednesday night
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Old 02-08-2016, 13:28
ftakeith
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Sunday 7 August on ITV

Arsenal v Manchester City- Presented by Celina Hinchcliffe, with commentary by Joe Speight and Andy Townsend, and analysis from Kevin Campbell and Dietmar Hamann.
I hope Speight is ITV's new number 2 and future number 1
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Old 02-08-2016, 13:51
CardioCortez
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For me GN wil not have the same impact as he did before, no one will take him seriously he is a failed manager, he has got no credibility at all, pontificating about other teams faults, and how they should improve.

I can imagine the likes of Mouhrino, Wenger, Cunte, will be shouting at their screens " You know nothing about football"!!!
I think that's nonsense.

Valencia was already a big task when he went. England can hardly be blamed solely on him.

Give it a season or two and that'll all be forgotten about.
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Old 02-08-2016, 14:38
ftakeith
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I think that's nonsense.

Valencia was already a big task when he went. England can hardly be blamed solely on him.

Give it a season or two and that'll all be forgotten about.
You are right GN's ability as a real coach will be forgotten until he gives a honest view and than a manager may state he was a failure in real football.
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Old 02-08-2016, 15:12
sat-ire
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You are right GN's ability as a real coach will be forgotten until he gives a honest view and than a manager may state he was a failure in real football.


What a bizarre and strange thing to claim...

Gary Neville has won more honours in the game at the very highest level than the absolute vast majority of managers. He, of course, worked under the one man who won more major honours than any other manager.

Without doing the math he's probably won more than all of his fellow pundits combined - but that will be corrected if necessary.

Neville's management career was very short: he had a few months stint at a club having its own internal problems, in a league he had no prior knowledge of, in a country speaking a language that was alien to him.
It was an incredibly brave thing to do, especially as the odds were very heavily stacked in favour of him not doing as well as hoped to begin with.

Some of the top managers mentioned in the context of this argument have only ever worked at clubs where riches help them to turn things around (that is not to say that I think they are not good managers).

Besides, even if anyone was to argue that Neville was a failure in management then the counter to that is that not everyone has the capability to put theory into practice. That doesn't make the theory inherently faulty.

Of course there are so many other sides to management that are irrelevant to his role as a pundit - dealings with owners, player man-management, coping with supporter expectation and demands etc etc. Failing at those (if it is to be accepted he failed) does not make him incapable of seeing, and commenting on, tactical failures on the pitch.

Plus, of course, unlike the majority of other pundits, he now knows the inner workings of how management works and can bring that to his role as a pundit. That gives him even more insight than he had previously.

As stated earlier, he has the respect of those who work in the game. It won't be any of them who will highlight what happened in his role as a club manager - except as a cheap point-scoring exercise or in a humorous way.
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Old 02-08-2016, 15:46
The Difference
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Could be wrong, but I have a vague recollection that Ron Greenwood was actually used as a co-commentator on the final itself alongside Kenneth W?
Don't think he said much, though!

Billy Wright later become head of sport for Central TV in the Midlands, one of the nicest guys in TV I've ever met, and I remember having a meeting with him and executive Trevor East at a pub in London somewhere to discuss my possible move to Central from BBC Radio.
There were panels during the World Cup before - and the Beeb themselves had an enormous panel in the 1970 World Cup, there's a picture of them in one of the Saint and Greavsie books in a Blankety Blank-style two-tier set-up* - but the difference with the 1970 ITV panel is that it was the first time they used the same people for every match, so they became really famous. And as Brian Moore pointed out, they also tried to get some controversial people as opposed to the rather bland punditry previously.

Anyway, the BBC pundits paraded in the Radio Times for the 1966 World Cup are Walter Winterbottom, Billy Wright, Joe Mercer, Don Revie, Ron Greenwood, Arthur Ellis, Tommy Docherty, Ken Aston, Johnny Haynes, Jimmy Hill and Danny Blanchflower.

* Ian St John was one of the Beeb's panellists in 1970, and in that book he talks about being part of the panel with Brian Clough and Bob Wilson on the day England were knocked out. Frank Bough asked Bob Wilson what he thought Alf Ramsey should do next and after the show finished, Clough complained bittery to Bough that he'd asked Wilson such an important question when Wilson was only a goalkeeper and he was a manager.

As the fantastic ITV Regional Highlights website confirms, Walley Barnes was the Beeb's co-commentator, though maybe they crossed over to the studio for Greenwood and others to contribute. And ITV's co-commentator alongside Hugh Johns was the Wales manager Dave Bowen.
http://carousel.royalwebhosting.net/itv/WorldCup66.html
Thanks for the information guys, it was fun to hear your anecdotes too. At the risk of sounding ungrateful for what you did post, did neither of you recognise the two pundits that I couldn't identify in those clips from the Alfie's Boys documentary?
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Old 02-08-2016, 16:36
ftakeith
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What a bizarre and strange thing to claim...

Gary Neville has won more honours in the game at the very highest level than the absolute vast majority of managers. He, of course, worked under the one man who won more major honours than any other manager.

Without doing the math he's probably won more than all of his fellow pundits combined - but that will be corrected if necessary.

Neville's management career was very short: he had a few months stint at a club having its own internal problems, in a league he had no prior knowledge of, in a country speaking a language that was alien to him.
It was an incredibly brave thing to do, especially as the odds were very heavily stacked in favour of him not doing as well as hoped to begin with.

Some of the top managers mentioned in the context of this argument have only ever worked at clubs where riches help them to turn things around (that is not to say that I think they are not good managers).

Besides, even if anyone was to argue that Neville was a failure in management then the counter to that is that not everyone has the capability to put theory into practice. That doesn't make the theory inherently faulty.

Of course there are so many other sides to management that are irrelevant to his role as a pundit - dealings with owners, player man-management, coping with supporter expectation and demands etc etc. Failing at those (if it is to be accepted he failed) does not make him incapable of seeing, and commenting on, tactical failures on the pitch.

Plus, of course, unlike the majority of other pundits, he now knows the inner workings of how management works and can bring that to his role as a pundit. That gives him even more insight than he had previously.

As stated earlier, he has the respect of those who work in the game. It won't be any of them who will highlight what happened in his role as a club manager - except as a cheap point-scoring exercise or in a humorous way.
GN was a great player and is a great TV pundit on Sky Sport

But GN is a real coaching failure at club and international failure. Someone will state that in the future.
He should have started his coaching career at Salford City as he came across a decent fellow in the bbc documentary series
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Old 02-08-2016, 17:02
sat-ire
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GN was a great player and is a great TV pundit on Sky Sport

But GN is a real coaching failure at club and international failure. Someone will state that in the future.
He should have started his coaching career at Salford City as he came across a decent fellow in the bbc documentary series
I've pointed out how to claim that his club management career was a failure is extremely premature.

As regards the international side of things - if it is suggested, as it has been in this thread, that we discount Andy Gray's management role so as not to call him a failure at punditry, then it is unfair to highlight Neville's co-management role where he worked as part of a management team. Ultimately Roy Hodgson made the final decisions, not him.

Or, to turn that around, I don't think anyone would credit Mike Phelan and/or Rene Muelensteen for the trophy-winning haul at Manchester United or call them successes at management on the back of it.

Again, the only ones who will point out his "failures" are people outside the game not anyone within the game...
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Old 02-08-2016, 17:07
LOSG
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Or, to turn that around, I don't think anyone would credit Mike Phelan and/or Rene Muelensteen for the trophy-winning haul at Manchester United or call them successes at management on the back of it.
I think Rene might
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Old 02-08-2016, 17:36
sat-ire
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I think Rene might
Not only might, he has
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Old 02-08-2016, 17:52
mromega
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Looks like Sky's branding for Saturday lunchtime games will be "Premier League Live", with "Super Sunday" and "Monday Night Football" remaining and "Friday Night Football" being introduced.
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Old 02-08-2016, 17:57
jlp95bwfc
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So 'Premier League Live' is the new 'Football Special' then?
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Old 02-08-2016, 18:11
mlt11
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Looks like Sky's branding for Saturday lunchtime games will be "Premier League Live", with "Super Sunday" and "Monday Night Football" remaining and "Friday Night Football" being introduced.
They've also changed it so that the names of the teams are in the name of the programme on the EPG - for all live PL games except Super Sunday. This was previously the case for the FL, but not the PL.

So the EPG for R1 reads as follows:

Live PL - Hull v Leicester
Live Nissan Super Sunday
Live Nissan Super Sunday
Live MNF - Chelsea v West Ham

Then R2 starts:

Live FNF - Man Utd v Southampton

So bet365 doesn't get onto the EPG. Whereas Nissan does - but not for its live Saturday games.
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Old 02-08-2016, 18:20
mlt11
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It's not 100% clear but it looks as if another change is that the Match Choice (with all games on the red button) will only be broadcast once - from 10.30pm to 11.30pm - ie 60 mins total - as previously posted.

Then at 11.30pm there is a 30 mins highlights programme for Hull v Leicester.

From midnight - there are 30 mins highlights programmes through the night - each showing highlights of "a match". So it looks as if a different match will be shown in each 30 mins slot through the night.

Previously the Match Choice (90 mins) programme was just repeated with the same game on the main channel and everything else behind the red button.
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Old 02-08-2016, 18:29
mlt11
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Confirmation that Chris Kamara and Ben Shephard are still presenting Goals on Sunday.

(Think someone had speculated on here a while ago that Shephard may not continue given his other TV commitments).
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Old 02-08-2016, 18:45
BFGArmy
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What a bizarre and strange thing to claim...

Gary Neville has won more honours in the game at the very highest level than the absolute vast majority of managers. He, of course, worked under the one man who won more major honours than any other manager.

Without doing the math he's probably won more than all of his fellow pundits combined - but that will be corrected if necessary.

Neville's management career was very short: he had a few months stint at a club having its own internal problems, in a league he had no prior knowledge of, in a country speaking a language that was alien to him.
It was an incredibly brave thing to do, especially as the odds were very heavily stacked in favour of him not doing as well as hoped to begin with.

Some of the top managers mentioned in the context of this argument have only ever worked at clubs where riches help them to turn things around (that is not to say that I think they are not good managers).

Besides, even if anyone was to argue that Neville was a failure in management then the counter to that is that not everyone has the capability to put theory into practice. That doesn't make the theory inherently faulty.

Of course there are so many other sides to management that are irrelevant to his role as a pundit - dealings with owners, player man-management, coping with supporter expectation and demands etc etc. Failing at those (if it is to be accepted he failed) does not make him incapable of seeing, and commenting on, tactical failures on the pitch.

Plus, of course, unlike the majority of other pundits, he now knows the inner workings of how management works and can bring that to his role as a pundit. That gives him even more insight than he had previously.

As stated earlier, he has the respect of those who work in the game. It won't be any of them who will highlight what happened in his role as a club manager - except as a cheap point-scoring exercise or in a humorous way.
I think you've made some good points there but I also sort of disagree.

I think he may get criticised by managers.
MNF I feel has changed over the years slightly from mainly just being analysis and explanation (with a bit of opinion) as it was when Gary and Ed began to much more these days being treated by Sky as the definitive 'last word on the weekend' and I feel some of the why or how of the analysis has been lost.

It's still an OK show but I'm not sure for example Gary's excellent diving segment would've happened in more recent seasons of MNF.

Therefore, if Gary were to return and give a strong opinion on a side that are struggling and a manager that's under pressure then I wouldn't be surprised if a manager when asked about 'what Gary Neville has said' were to mention Gary's managerial career.

I know Arsene Wenger, who's normally known to be fairly cordial in press conferences, has criticised ex-players of his for their punditry in the past so if Wenger has then I can see other managers criticising Gary.
--
I do think to fail as badly as Gary did in such quick succession will mean people don't treat his punditry with as much weight as they used to.
Obviously as you say his theory may be right but if he failed so badly twice in a few months (of course Roy was in charge of England but Gary was often pushed as one of his key man) then it either suggests Gary doesn't really know as much as we thought or that his coaching is lacking which either way doesn't help Gary's reputation.

On the managerial points, while Niall Quinn probably has more done more roles in football than most other pundits - player, chairman, manager, selecting new manager - it doesn't mean he's the best pundit around.
--
Basically, will Gary still be a good pundit if he returns? Yes - especially when you look at the lack of quality of some pundits who appear reguarly. But will he be treated as the 'all-knowing' pundit like he was before Valencia? I'm not so sure.

Looks like Sky's branding for Saturday lunchtime games will be "Premier League Live", with "Super Sunday" and "Monday Night Football" remaining and "Friday Night Football" being introduced.
Premier League Live feels like it'll be the most basic of the match slots Sky have - much like Football Special used to.
Think it's telling too that when there were those ridiculous buzzwords a few weeks back to describe the Sky match slots the word the Saturday games got was 'expectant' which meant absolutely nothing.

Nothing wrong with that - means you're guaranteed competent enough coverage - which at the end of the day is what a viewer wants.
However, the issue I used to have with Football Special was that at times the coverage felt like 'just another game' and always felt the same in that slot - whether it was a title decider in April or Stoke v Hull in November.

I hope Speight is ITV's new number 2 and future number 1
He's good and like you I hope he moves ahead of Matterface but not sure if pre-season games are any indication of commentary ranks.

I mean Celina Hinchcliffe is presenting the game and normally if Pougatch isn't there then it'd be Jacqui Oatley presenting so it's hardly even ITV's second string line-up. Probably more a case of who is available than anything.
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Old 02-08-2016, 18:50
mromega
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It's not 100% clear but it looks as if another change is that the Match Choice (with all games on the red button) will only be broadcast once - from 10.30pm to 11.30pm - ie 60 mins total - as previously posted.

Then at 11.30pm there is a 30 mins highlights programme for Hull v Leicester.
Big change this year is the availability of highlights on-demand.
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