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Football Commentators Thread (Part 19)


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Old 02-08-2016, 18:58
sat-ire
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I think you've made some good points there but I also sort of disagree.

I think he may get criticised by managers.
MNF I feel has changed over the years slightly from mainly just being analysis and explanation (with a bit of opinion) as it was when Gary and Ed began to much more these days being treated by Sky as the definitive 'last word on the weekend' and I feel some of the why or how of the analysis has been lost.

It's still an OK show but I'm not sure for example Gary's excellent diving segment would've happened in more recent seasons of MNF.

Therefore, if Gary were to return and the current style of MNF continues and he give a strong opinion on a side that are struggling and a manager that's under pressure then I wouldn't be surprised if a manager when asked about 'what Gary Neville has said' were to mention Gary's managerial career.

I know Arsene Wenger, who's normally known to be fairly cordial in press conferences, has criticised ex-players of his for their punditry in the past so if Wenger has then I can see other managers criticising Gary.
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I do think to fail as badly as Gary did in such quick succession will mean people don't treat his punditry with as much weight as they used to.
Obviously as you say his theory may be right but if he failed so badly twice in a few months (of course Roy was in charge of England but Gary was often pushed as one of his key man) then it either suggests Gary doesn't really know that much or that he's truly terrible at coaching which either way doesn't help Gary's reputation.

On the managerial points, while Niall Quinn probably has more done more roles in football than most other pundits - player, chairman, manager, selecting new manager - it doesn't mean he's the best pundit around.
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Basically, will Gary still be a good pundit if he returns? Yes - especially when you look at the lack of quality of some pundits who appear reguarly. But will he be treated as the 'all-knowing' pundit like he was before Valencia? I'm not so sure.
Thanks for the well-thought out and interesting response.

Ultimately, if a manager of a struggling side were to bring up Gary's managerial career it would be a little open to ridicule. The only ones who could conceivably do it would be the successful ones, but I really don't think they will - unless it's as a cheap points-scoring exercise or to deflect criticism, which, to be fair, the top managers are good at.

Neville's much-lauded (within the game as well as from us laymen I might add) punditry doesn't become bad punditry just because of his very short managerial career.

We probably agree on more than we disagree. Ultimately, for all the reasons I've mentioned, the Valencia debacle will be recognised by those within the game as a very difficult situation for any manager, even the experienced ones. How many of them would've taken it on?

On the Niall Quinn point, it does mean he can bring more insight to the role, which is all I claimed for Gary

As a final point, any (struggling particularly) manager who might mention Neville's "failure" would then invite back a response that if you think he had enough time there to be called a failure then you can't ask for time to turn your own situation around.
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Old 02-08-2016, 19:00
THFC23
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Manish has confirmed on Twitter that he is hosting the BBC's highlights of the Community Shield on Sunday
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Old 02-08-2016, 19:16
Igloo_Man
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Just in case anyone's missed it, the comms comp for 2016/17 is now open. It starts this weekend so get those entries in!

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2169155
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Old 02-08-2016, 19:20
BFGArmy
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Thanks for the well-thought out and interesting response.

Ultimately, if a manager of a struggling side were to bring up Gary's managerial career it would be a little open to ridicule. The only ones who could conceivably do it would be the successful ones, but I really don't think they will - unless it's as a cheap points-scoring exercise or to deflect criticism, which, to be fair, the top managers are good at.

Neville's much-lauded (within the game as well as from us laymen I might add) punditry doesn't become bad punditry just because of his very short managerial career.

We probably agree on more than we disagree. Ultimately, for all the reasons I've mentioned, the Valencia debacle will be recognised by those within the game as a very difficult situation for any manager, even the experienced ones. How many of them would've taken it on?

On the Niall Quinn point, it does mean he can bring more insight to the role, which is all I claimed for Gary

As a final point, any (struggling particularly) manager who might mention Neville's "failure" would then invite back a response that if you think he had enough time there to be called a failure then you can't ask for time to turn your own situation around.
Thanks. And as I say think you've made plenty of good points.

And I certainly don't think he'll become a bad pundit.

Of course all of this debate relies on him rejoining Sky. Which is likely but by no means a given.
For all we know, he could join BT. Which will be the same day as this thread describes a Fletch commentary as peerless.

Will be interesting actually as to whether we see more of Gerrard and Lampard this season - especially once the MLS finishes. Lampard showed some promise from his appearances last season and while I wasn't blown away by Gerrard on BT last season, I thought his Telegraph columns during the Euros were fantastic and better than most of the other punditry on England.
Either the ghost writer deserves a raise or he's got more to offer than he's shown so far.

Manish has confirmed on Twitter that he is hosting the BBC's highlights of the Community Shield on Sunday
Not hugely surprised. Much of the usual football team will be in Brazil around then I imagine - Chapman, Walker, Gabby Logan, Jason Mohammad etc. - and I think Manish is doing MOTD2 the first weekend of the season so you'd expect him to cover Sundays on the first few weeks of the new season.
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Old 02-08-2016, 19:43
Ian Cleverly
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Manish has confirmed on Twitter that he is hosting the BBC's highlights of the Community Shield on Sunday
Another re-confirmation comes from Mark Clemmit saying he will not be doing any National league BT presenting duties, as he'll be with the BBC doing Final Score Football League round-ups.
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Old 02-08-2016, 20:39
Mark.
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Scottish Challenge Cup, Premier Sports

Celtic U-20 v Annan Athletic - Rory Hamilton and Michael Stewart

Hamilton and Stewart are presenting from the gantry at Cappielow.
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Old 02-08-2016, 20:48
casinoman13
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Looks like Sky's branding for Saturday lunchtime games will be "Premier League Live", with "Super Sunday" and "Monday Night Football" remaining and "Friday Night Football" being introduced.
Really get the feeling that with all these new brandings, times, new presenters etc its going to be " make or break " for Sky over these next few years as far as their football prem coverage is concerned.

With the huge amount of money they laid out i wonder if they will reap any reward for it.
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Old 02-08-2016, 21:12
mightymillie
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Confirmation that Chris Kamara and Ben Shephard are still presenting Goals on Sunday.

(Think someone had speculated on here a while ago that Shephard may not continue given his other TV commitments).
And one of Sky's commentators has a new contract....
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Old 02-08-2016, 21:18
casinoman13
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And one of Sky's commentators has a new contract....
O
Only one??
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Old 02-08-2016, 21:45
Steve Williams
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Sunday 7 August on ITV

Arsenal v Manchester City- Presented by Celina Hinchcliffe, with commentary by Joe Speight and Andy Townsend, and analysis from Kevin Campbell and Dietmar Hamann.
That seems a bizarre bit of scheduling, I know ITV are always after as much football as possible but it seems such a strange thing to decide to put on the main ITV channel during the Olympics. I know Countryfile is on in its usual slot but the rest of the traditional Sunday teatime stuff on BBC1 isn't, so surely there'd have been an audience trying to avoid sport and maybe turning to ITV, and they're showing more sport, unbilled. Seems to totally alienate the audience. I know they only had repeats scheduled, but it seems a bit daft.

It reminds me of during the last Olympics when Channel Five showed that Southampton friendly, which was the first thing they showed after they lost the rights to the Europa League, with the suggestion they'd still be showing football. Of course, they didn't show any other football for the next three years. Like this, looked a bit desperate.

Gary Neville has won more honours in the game at the very highest level than the absolute vast majority of managers. He, of course, worked under the one man who won more major honours than any other manager.

As stated earlier, he has the respect of those who work in the game. It won't be any of them who will highlight what happened in his role as a club manager - except as a cheap point-scoring exercise or in a humorous way.
Indeed, it reminds of when ITV promoted Euro 2000 by hyping up the fact they had three former England managers as pundits - but that meant nothing, really, because they clearly remembered how they'd been slagged off when they were England manager so they didn't particularly want to slag off the current England manager.

As for Neville's managerial career I hardly think it's a handicap when he's on the same channel as Graeme Souness, whose managerial career has been totally chequered - you had Rangers, but other than that you've got him virtually ending a dynasty at Liverpool, signing Ali Dia at Southampton and getting the sack at Newcastle. But he has total respect from viewers and fellow professionals because of his playing career. As you say, Neville's playing career was exceptional, so he can certainly talk about what players are doing, which is the case for about 90% of punditry anyway.

Thanks for the information guys, it was fun to hear your anecdotes too. At the risk of sounding ungrateful for what you did post, did neither of you recognise the two pundits that I couldn't identify in those clips from the Alfie's Boys documentary?
Sadly not. Billy was Billy Wright, clearly. I do know from the 1982 Match of the Day Annual that I own that Jimmy Hill was the pundit on the Beeb's coverage of the final, alongside Joe Mercer, and at the end of the match they both cried on air because it was so emotional. Jim also said in the book the match he most wished he'd covered is "one that hasn't been played yet - when England next win the World Cup".

Manish has confirmed on Twitter that he is hosting the BBC's highlights of the Community Shield on Sunday
Yes, it's in the Radio Times as well, which also confirms that Steve Wilson and Danny Murphy are commentating. The Radio Times also tells us that Matterface and Townsend are doing ITV's Super Cup highlights, with Jacqui presenting.

Nice slot for the League Cup highlights on Channel Five next Wednesday, midnight. Finishing at 1.30am. Not sure how that's promoting the competition to a wider audience.

Another re-confirmation comes from Mark Clemmit saying he will not be doing any National league BT presenting duties, as he'll be with the BBC doing Final Score Football League round-ups.
Well, that is interesting. I did say when they announced the first televised matches and most of them were on Saturdays that Clemmit would had to give up one or the other, but I'm a bit surprised it's the latter because he always seems to enjoy doing it, and now he's going to be stuck in a studio rather than getting out and about. I've enjoyed Clemmit on the Conference, actually, he can be a bit of an acquired taste in some places but I enjoyed his enthusiasm for the league and his easy manner with everyone involved. It's a level where being on telly is still the biggest thing imaginable for most of the clubs and he makes it feel like a special day for them. Presumably Natalie Quirk will make the step-up to main anchor?

I'm presuming Steve Bower is also going to stop doing them, given it seems to be either that or giving up Match of the Day. So it'll be a bit of a new look to the Conference coverage this season.
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Old 02-08-2016, 21:52
shaun_d
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i

Well, that is interesting. I did say when they announced the first televised matches and most of them were on Saturdays that Clemmit would had to give up one or the other, but I'm a bit surprised it's the latter because he always seems to enjoy doing it, and now he's going to be stuck in a studio rather than getting out and about. I've enjoyed Clemmit on the Conference, actually, he can be a bit of an acquired taste in some places but I enjoyed his enthusiasm for the league and his easy manner with everyone involved. It's a level where being on telly is still the biggest thing imaginable for most of the clubs and he makes it feel like a special day for them. Presumably Natalie Quirk will make the step-up to main anchor?
The National League have just tweeted that it'll be Matt Smith.
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Old 02-08-2016, 22:01
foxinthebox
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The National League have just tweeted that it'll be Matt Smith.
Great news. Will be good to see Matt having a regular slot on BT
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Old 02-08-2016, 22:02
loyalsince
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And one of Sky's commentators has a new contract....
Speight exclusive to sky after next week?

Out of interest with darke's apparent demotion at bt, is there any similar personnel who reduced his role at sky now at bt too?
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Old 02-08-2016, 22:16
ftakeith
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Well done Dundalk on great win tonight.

TV3 and RTE2 have to show one leg each in the next round of the Champions League and maybe games in the group stages of the champions league.

Eir Sport 1 could be forced to show Dundalk's games if they qualify for the group stages of Europa League
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Old 02-08-2016, 22:52
The Wanderer
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Seems like Manish will be presenting a lot of stuff for PLP as well this season. His tweet seems to suggest he'll actually be the main presenter.

As for punditry, it's a different skill, it's generally looking back and reacting rather than being a manager or coach which is very much a proactive thing. Yes, people will bring up Valencia but he's going to be the same pundit and he'll still be good at the job, and better than the majority of what we get.
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Old 02-08-2016, 23:02
Steve Williams
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The National League have just tweeted that it'll be Matt Smith.
Ooh, that's smashing news. I'm sure he'll enjoy it and he's just the right person for it.
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Old 02-08-2016, 23:12
BFGArmy
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Seems like Manish will be presenting a lot of stuff for PLP as well this season. His tweet seems to suggest he'll actually be the main presenter.

As for punditry, it's a different skill, it's generally looking back and reacting rather than being a manager or coach which is very much a proactive thing. Yes, people will bring up Valencia but he's going to be the same pundit and he'll still be good at the job, and better than the majority of what we get.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the worldwide PLP coverage.
In previous seasons John Dykes has been the main presenter on there with Mark Pougatch doing some games (Monday I think?).

As you say sounds like from Manish's tweet like he's got an enhanced role on their PL coverage (I know he did some matches last season).

Manish Bhasin ‏@_manishbhasin
Really thrilled to be the new host of live @premierleague games on major TV sports networks to millions across 4 continents! #excitingtimes
Sounds like John Dykes will be doing some commentating as well as presenting.
He's not well-known in the UK but when I have seen the PLP coverage when abroad he's a fantastic anchor. Which is impressive given the punditry line-up is never fixed on there - as many pundits they use are primarily employed by other broadcasters.

Andy Townsend and Don Hutchinson from what I've heard appear fairly often but otherwise it's luck of the draw who appears.
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Old 02-08-2016, 23:20
Jason C
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They've also changed it so that the names of the teams are in the name of the programme on the EPG - for all live PL games except Super Sunday. This was previously the case for the FL, but not the PL.

So the EPG for R1 reads as follows:

Live PL - Hull v Leicester
Live Nissan Super Sunday
Live Nissan Super Sunday
Live MNF - Chelsea v West Ham

Then R2 starts:

Live FNF - Man Utd v Southampton

So bet365 doesn't get onto the EPG. Whereas Nissan does - but not for its live Saturday games.
Can you conclude from that that Sky think viewers will tune into Super Sunday just because it's Super Sunday but are more reluctant to tune into MNF and Saturday PL unless they know it's showing a game they're interested in watching?
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Old 02-08-2016, 23:39
Akilduff
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Eir Sport 1 could be forced to show Dundalk's games if they qualify for the group stages of Europa League
No "forced" about it, considering they've already shown three of Dundalk's qualifiers and two of Cork's.

RTE and TV3 will be contractually obliged to show the Champions League play-off, and all their Champions League matches.

Eir would have all of Dundalk's games in the Europa League group stages. And Cork City's too, as it happens.
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Old 03-08-2016, 00:05
pakokelso93
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Is there a shout of the new look Sky match choice might patch the studio element? Just show the action (with red button options - a commentator could reference or something at the start)

I always found the punditry stuff a bit odd on Match Choice. You select one game to watch for 60 mins or so then you get this 15-20 mins chat on all the games, which is okay for MOTD or Goals on Sunday when you see highlights edits of all the games but different when you watch one for a big lengthy edit.
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Old 03-08-2016, 00:11
mlt11
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Can you conclude from that that Sky think viewers will tune into Super Sunday just because it's Super Sunday but are more reluctant to tune into MNF and Saturday PL unless they know it's showing a game they're interested in watching?
I can see the point you're making though I think there are probably a number of issues which would be relevant.

First of all the amount Nissan is paying will take account of their name being in the title of Super Sunday.

At the same time we know from other leagues that Sky obviously thinks it's helpful to have the names of the teams in the title of the programme.

So there is a trade-off.

But I think you're right in the sense that Super Sunday is the slot people most associate Sky with for PL football so it's less important to put team names in the title of that programme.

It's also worth noting that Fri night is a brand new slot for PL football and Sat 12.30pm is a new PL slot for Sky this season (after several years) so those slots will be less associated with PL football. I think this particularly applies to Friday night where it will take time for people to realise there are live PL games then - and with only 10 games per season they aren't going to be able to get people into any rhythm of watching PL games then in any case.

Having said that I don't think anyone will just tune into Super Sunday regardless - nobody will watch a whole game of football unless they want to. It's just the case that more people are more inclined to tune in in that slot - and we know from analysis of viewing figures that on average the Sunday 4pm slot rates highest by a substantial margin.
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Old 03-08-2016, 00:19
mlt11
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Is there a shout of the new look Sky match choice might patch the Studio element? Just show the action (with red button options - a commentator could reference or something at the start)

I always found the punditry stuff a bit odd on Match Choice. You select one game to watch for 60 mins or so then you get this 15-20 mins chat on all the games, which is okay for MOTD or Goals on Sunday when you see highlights edits of all the games but different when you watch one for a big lengthy edit.
I think this is unlikely given we know Sky has 30 min highlight programmes through the night after Match Choice.

ie it seems unlikely they would do an edit of every game to fit the 60 mins Match Choice programme and then another edit of every game for the later 30 mins highlights programmes.

Not saying it's impossible - but just seems unlikely.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:05
Dan_LFC
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With relation to Gary Neville, it's an interesting one. What I would say that Sky clearly did some good succession planning a few years back in not having anyone as domiant as Keys and Gray were meaning that when Gary and now Ed have left the transition was just that little bit smoother and in the case of the former although it was a blow to lose him, they managed to cope.

I do think if Sky can get him back then they should. Ultimatley MNF was not as good without him and whilst some weeks it was interesting to see some new faces, it wasnt as strong for me without him and there does seem as others have said to have been a shift from the more forensic analysis we enjoyed in the pass to more of a oppinonated discussion allbeit a more considered one than is perhaps avaliable elsewhere. He is also one of a handful of people I would say are really good at co-commentary though Sky is generally strong in this area.

I do think though he has lost some credability. He cant really talk now of a team be poorly managed or answer where it went wrong for such a manager or what now needs to be done etc in the short term at least without a lot of viewers and perhaps those within the game publicly coming to the view he cant really talk. That said, memories can be short and it could of course all be forgotten about pretty quickly. One poster mentioned him being more accomplished as a player than his other pundits it would be interesting to see a breakdowm of their honours, pressumbly only Souness could have perhaps exceeded him.

Its also interesting that Carragher is going to have a go at commentary. If this becomes a regular thing it may suggest Neville may not be as promient this time round, perhaps Sky are weary of him wondering off again?

........
On the other news coming out, I think Matt Smith is an excellent capture for the National League coverage he is one of the best presenters around and certainly the most knowledgable, I hope he still continues to be seen on some UCL/EL games too.

As for Manish, very good move by PLP, Ive said in the past in this thread I think hes one of the most talented presenters out there and is criminally underused by the BBC. He deserves a lead anchor job, I remember thinking before Jake Humphery was announced he would be good for BT. Its also nice to hear he will be used for the first couple of weeks of the new season, I think Im right in saying he has not done MOTD2 before? He has if i recall done the main show a couple of times and I look forward to see him present a couple of important shows.
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:47
liverpool_9009
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Will be interesting to see what happens with the worldwide PLP coverage.
In previous seasons John Dykes has been the main presenter on there with Mark Pougatch doing some games (Monday I think?).

As you say sounds like from Manish's tweet like he's got an enhanced role on their PL coverage (I know he did some matches last season).



Sounds like John Dykes will be doing some commentating as well as presenting.
He's not well-known in the UK but when I have seen the PLP coverage when abroad he's a fantastic anchor. Which is impressive given the punditry line-up is never fixed on there - as many pundits they use are primarily employed by other broadcasters.

Andy Townsend and Don Hutchinson from what I've heard appear fairly often but otherwise it's luck of the draw who appears.
I think 'luck of the draw' is a little off the mark as many of the same pundits popped up throughout the season. You can add Curbishley, Hargreaves, Dixon, Petit, Wilkins, Owen to name but a few to a list of pundits that appeared regularly last season.

I was aware that Manish was handed an increased role by PLP at the end of last season when he announced at the end of his last 'Premier League News'. However he did fill John Dykes main presenter's chair near the end of last season when Dykes and Hutchison were commentating on a Saturday 3:00 match (at Newcastle I think).

I wouldn't be surprised if that was a trial run, and that beginning this season, PLP will be using Dykes/Hutchison commentary on the main 3:00 Saturday match each week, replacing the regular 'Sky' voices of Weaver/Jones/Taphouse, etc.

I am hoping Pougach continues his MNF role for PLP as well as Monday's edition of 'Football Today' alongside Don & Dion.
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:07
Tony Yeboah
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Friday 5 August on ITV4

Arsenal v Viking Stavanger- Presented by Celina Hinchcliffe with analysis by Kevin Campbell and Brede Hangelaand and commentary by Joe Speight and Andy Townsend.
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