weren't Bear's exam results full of Es and Us?

Probably. Bear can be Britain's cultural ambassador when we leave the EU. Makes as much sense as the leave result.

Yes, it's like the opposite of positive reinforcement when dog training!

I do think that generally a lot of society's attitudes have changed over the last couple of generations. Long gone are the days of "seen and not heard" and obviously any form of physical discipline is prohibited, either at schools or home. The over riding attitude does seem to be that life revolves around children rather than children having to accept that they will be bored a lot of the time as their parents have their own lives to lead and that they'll have to wait for or earn treats. Look at how kids behave in restaurants, they are provide with things to keep them amused from colouring in provided by the restaurant to phones and tablets from their parents and still they often scream and run riot with the adults doing nothing. I would never have done that when out, it wouldn't have been tolerated even at home.

Even at School, they see themselves as 'equal' to the teachers. I think our GCSE system has a lot to answer for as well. This whole "it doesn't matter if they can't spell so long as we get the gist of what they want to say" stuff. Remember when if your English was incorrect in any subject, you failed? Maybe that went a little too far, it did penalise people with real issues like dyslexia but it's gone too far the other way.

Kids are encouraged to think that they deserve automatic respect but don'( need to show it to others. That they deserve to have anything and everything they want as soon as they want it and if they don't get it they are being deprived. That anybody that doesn't share their idea of enjoyment are boring old farts who are past it. Basically that the world owed them a living and others are there purely to service and entertain them.

Now of course not all children are like that, not all teenagers or young people are. There are plenty of rude, self entitled middle aged and old people around as well - either because of the way they've been brought up or something within them.

But i do think that parents have a harder job to say "no" these days and install discipline and respect due to them not getting wider support from society and yes, even the role models on tv where even in soaps, teenagers are invariably portrayed as knowing better than their elders and bratty behaviour in kids is deemed to be funny or cute.

You make some good points, and I agree that educationally there has been a dumbing down. Kids do better (for the most part) when expectations in them are high. 'We' have to believe in them for them to believe in themselves. Without something to strive for they stagnate. Setting the bar too low just tells them that we believe they are not capable of reaching higher.

Thankfully the vast majority of young people are not like their reality tv representatives, where the bar has been set very low.
It takes no skill, intelligence or training to be able to drink too much, sleep around and shout and swear louder than the majority. Anyone can do this but most choose not to. Most set higher goals for themselves simply because most are more intelligent than that and need goals, employment and a lifestyle that actually stimulates them.

I would be very pissed off if I thought the average young reality star was representative of their generation, but I know that they are not. I can honestly say that most young people I meet leave me feeling optimistic about the future.

I also like that many appear to be developing a healthy disrespect for authority and hierarchical systems. They are becoming more questioning of the "do as I say not as I do" brigade.
Of course they need to learn respect in certain situations, but they also need to learn that it should be earned and that their own behaviour and 'obedience' should not be dictated by someone else's title or position alone.

And getting famous far too young without the need for any real talent...all of the above creates this kind of pond life.

But in the "real world" they have to learn quickly, to comform, if they want to succeed in life and career.

It doesn't help their transition to adulthood to see their role models on TV acting the way they do and being rewarded handsomely for it.

I agree.

I do wonder how on earth some youngsters who have constantly been cossetted and told they're wonderful and don't have to try, been constantly affirmed but not criticized cope when somebody inevitable turns round and says 'no' or 'that work isn't good enough' once they're out in the real world with a job.

Yes, questioning and challenging is good, people don't automatically deserve respect and to always be obeyed without questioning simply because of their position - that is how people get away with abusing power.

However, sometimes a degree of respect for authority and 'lines of command' is necessary and sometimes people's experience of education, experience and therefore knowledge do put them in a 'superior' position to those younger than then and especially in something like a place of employment, that should bring an extra degree of respect and deference. It doesn't mean that they are more intelligent and often a younger, fresher, 'untrained' mind can see solutions somebody more set in their ways can't which should be valued and respected in itself. Also, they may in time become better. But experience can often mean that the older person does 'know best' and young people often seem to totally disregard that, honestly believing that they do know as much if not more.

But, I do believe that all people deserve a degree of respect and consideration simply because they are human beings unless they have done something to prove they don't deserve that respect.

I don't like the attitude of i don't respect anybody until they have proved to me they deserve it. Personally i respect everybody, old or young until they prove to me that they don't deserve it.

Liberal education - no punishment these days, only "understanding".

Early expulsion is the way to go - you expel one pupil and the effect on an entire school is quite staggering... kids suddenly realise that actions really do have consequences.... not consequences on their eduction - because the most badly behaved tend not to give a damn anyway - but on their social life. They suddenly realise that they could lose a good 7 hours of contact with their friends... and that scares the hell out of them.

Now days it's all PRU (pupil referral units) for a few months and then they know they'll be back in school strutting about like they own the place.

To those who will say that no "child should be left behind", better one child left behind than 30 others in the classroom suffer a sub-standard education because of one.

oh lefty-liberals... the damage you have done.

I won't get into educational ideology as it is a minefield.
But I will say that no physical discipline by schools and parents does not mean no discipline!
You are not allowed to smack a child anymore as it is abuse, quite right!
But parents do need to instill in their children, a notion of respect, humanity, selflessness and empathy. These attributes will get them a long way in the real "adult" world.

I'm not in favour of physical discipline, never have been, but when you say BIB what passes for discipline in many schools these days is viewed as a complete joke by the pupils. The parents and teachers may think it constitutes punishment, but it's the opinion of the pupils that actually matters.

So, you take a disruptive pupil out of the classroom and then what??? One-to-one tuition equals, for some students, a captive audience to whom they can rant and rave for a few hours. Others will deliberately become hysterically distressed to the point that they must be sent home...

And the next day (or whenever) they are back in the class basking in the admiration of their fellow students and regaling them with tales of how they got one over on the teaching staff...

it ain't punishment in their eyes, believe me.