'new wave' though was used to describe some american acts in the pre punk era.... ive never heard it used to describe a british group prior to punk. if it was around, it wasnt mainstream - so to describe new wave 'emerging in 79' is id suggest accurate

likewise disco might not have been exclusively a 'gay genre', but % wise it did appear to appeal to the gay community more then id suggest any other style, and it was in the gay clubs where it first took off.

New wave was definitely in common use by 1977. I bought a compilation album called "New Wave", released that year, and featuring the Ramones, Talking Heads, The Boomtown Rats etc. https://www.discogs.com/Various-New-Wave/release/753746

fair comment, but its not something id heard much of before punk, and those acts you cite are american (cept btr of course) .

it might be my memory, i bought the nme weekly, but canot recall much if anything mentioning 'new wave'... (prior to punk in mid/late 76).

i read the 'new wave emerging' post (not by me) as new wave emerging into mainstream... it started charting more... as opposed to emerging (as in being created), if you get my drift.... maybe the fm who posted this could confirm it

Maybe '78 but not '79. Acts such as The Buzzcocks, Magazine, Blondie and Talking Heads, for instance, were all well known to UK listeners before then.

I'm sure it would have been more of a US originated style (or maybe ethos or attitude because I don't even think style would be an appropriate label for acts as disparate as Television, Suicide, The New York Dolls, The Velvet Underground) but the popular music we consume has always been a mixture of US and homegrown with some other origins interspersed. We had acts like the Swell Maps and XTC and Australia had The Boys Next Door but not all they people were cutting records in the early days. Some of them were playing for years before being signed.


No it definitely wasn't. It was originally underground long before non-US artists started dabbling with it and clubs would likely have attracted a more hedonistic, less judgemental and more mixed crowd compared to Rock venues. Black, Latino. white, straight, gay wouldn't have been a problem.


Their are famous gay DJs from the era and the gay community seemed to embrace it but I couldn't say that more gay people enjoyed Disco than say, Rock. I'd have no idea. We know that Rock was massive in the 60's AND 70's whereas (arguably) proto-Disco tracks were dating back to no further than around '69 or so. Gay Disco fans were probably more visible that Rock fans. The 'Disco Sucks' thing has been accused of being both anti-gay and racially motivated.


Well, no: African-American venues. Years before Studio 54 and the stuff of documentaries. Like many things Disco's history has been revised to suit a popular contemporary narrative.

[I realise that I didn't make the post that I intended to yesterday, so I'll do it now...]



Now that the focus has turned to 1979 and Disco, there's been a few things posted to disagree with.

Disco being 'soulless'. That's ridiculous. Many of the African-American artists who jumped aboard the Disco craze *were* Soul and R&B artists e.g. Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, James Brown, Bettye Lavette. I've heard Soul snobs claiming that no good records were made after 1975 (lol) and things like that but...

Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes' (or Thelma Houston's cover of) "Don't Leave Me This Way", Eddie Kendricks' "Date With The Rain", Gladys Knight & the Pips' "It's a Better Than Good Time" not soulful?! You're having a giraffe!

Disco being 'over' by 1979 with just a few artists hanging on. Hmm. Anyone notice what was released in '79?!

Disco 'generally suffered from a cheese factor'. No. some of the music described as Disco certainly did but the great stuff is unfairly maligned as a consequence. This has gone on for as long as I can remember and often it's people who are very far from hip themselves who hold this view. Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Thing I'm Sexy", Kelly Marie's "Feels Like I'm In Love", Ottawan's "D.I.S.C.O." are more like a parody of the genre than the real thing.


1979 gave us plenty of Disco and Disco Funk and the emergence of Disco Rap. Some of the really well known singles...

Chic - Good Times
Chic - My Forbidden Lover
Sugarhill Gang - Rapper's Delight
Michael Jackson - Don't Stop Til You Get Enough
The Jacksons - Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground) [hit in '79]
Cheryl Lynn - Got To Be Real
Stephanie Mills - What-Cha Gonna Do with My Lovin'
Rufus & Chaka Khan - Do You Love What You Feel
Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers - Bustin' Loose
Prince - I Wanna Be Your Lover
Kool & The Gang - Ladies' Night
McFadden & Whitehead - Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now
Sister Sledge - He's the Greatest Dancer
Sister Sledge - We Are Family
Sister Sledge - Lost In Music
Phyllis Hyman - You Know How to Love Me
Earth, Wind & Fire - September [released late '78]
Earth, Wind & Fire - Star
Earth, Wind & Fire - In the Stone
Earth, Wind & Fire - After The Love Has Gone
Earth, Wind & Fire & The Emotions - Boogie Wonderland
Peaches & Herb - Shake Your Groove Thing
G.Q. - Disco Nights (Rock Freak)
Donna Summer - Bad Girls
Donna Summer - Hot Stuff
Donna Summer - Sunset People
Barbara Streisand & Donna Summer - No More Tears (Enough is Enough)
Anita Ward - Ring My Bell
Amii Stewart - Knock On Wood
Amii Stewart - Light My Fire



Then, of course we could make a list of records from 1980 confirming that Disco was mysteriously still around. *shock horror*

Teena Marie - Behind The Groove
Loleatta Holloway - Love Sensation
Stephanie Mills - Never Knew Love Like This Before

... but I'll leave that for now.

If you are really going to understand the significance of disco and the disco genre, then you have to credit the disco culture and its social significance, particularly in the US. Yes, it wasn't just a gay music but it was the first music scene that allowed gay, straight and racial integration in an open, liberated manner. And I don't think that is revisionism to suit a modern narrative, it's just a truth that wasn't fully realized at the time.

Yes, it's true that the 70s was the heyday for that cultural aspect of disco music (turned the beat around, you might say) but of course the music lasted outside that time. http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...e_iOSApp_Other

As per this list above 1979 was a great year for disco hits as well as other great music.

You'll see that I mentioned the mixed audiences in my post and that it was the suggestion that it started in gay clubs is the revisionism, along with the notion of it being a 'gay genre'.

I see that the Guardian article is by Adam Mattera who was one of the dullest writers at Echoes for a time. He seems to have gone on to write on gay issues and for gay publications so I suppose it's hardly surprising that Village People are the act chosen to illustrate his article, that the opening sentence mentions Studio 54, that he quickly moves on to mention an "outrageous, mobile homo-disco!", Horse Meat Disco, David Mancuso, Nicky Siano and a "little gay boy dancing to Diana Ross" and contrasts all of this with (the cheesy, commercial end of Disco e.g.) "John Travolta flares" and Mamma Mia.

It's quite clear the message here is that Disco was gay and then it was co-opted by the masses who missed the point, which is exactly the sort of inaccurate presentation (revisionism) I was referring to.

No, what he is saying is that pop culture seems to remember disco as a cheesy, commercial dance music (which was even mentioned in this thread) but in reality much disco music was the soundtrack to a subversive, liberating time for the gay community especially in the US in the 70s. That's not revisionism, that's pretty accurate. The third paragraph in the Adams Article summarizes it well.

'It's also the perfect antidote to the kind of Woolworths disco that's sadly been embedded into much of our nation's consciousness. You know what I mean – all John Travolta flares, hen parties off to Mamma Mia! and grown men dressing as schoolboys for wacky school disco nights. Now that is not what I call disco. In its proud and glorious mid-70s Manhattan heyday, disco was far more than that. It was a four-on-the-four bassline, euphoric strings, fierce cowbells and a soaring vocal straight out of the church and on to the dancefloor. More importantly it created a place – or rather it soundtracked a space – outside the mainstream. A place where black, Hispanic, gay and any combination thereof could come together and dance, love and just be without fear."

That's not saying Disco was an exclusively gay genre but that disco music and the associated disco provided a cultural and indeed literal place where many different outsider groups could come together. That's a perfectly fair narrative.

If you want a more thorough treatment try Peter Shapiro's 'Turn the Beat Around' from a few years ago.

when a lot of people think of disco they think of abba and the bee gees and commercial tracks, novelty tracks and stuff that hit the singles charts, and when disco came out there was no internet of course, so word of mouth and getting news from 3 tv channels and mainstream press was where most people got information, so people would be inclined to believe what they read or hear

however disco was more like the club music of the last 2/3 decades in that the real disco music was mainly lessser known material from labels like salsoul and west end, played in underground clubs. fantastic music, extended versions lasting around 8-10 minutes or more. even today if you go in a club, the music you hear in a good club will be very different to what is played on the radio, but in more recent years with the internet and multichannel tv, people are more familiar in knowing about what happens in underground clubs or niche markets and aware there is a difference between what is hip and what is commercial and in the charts

so people will look back at disco and think it's just a big cheese fest when the real deal was a pretty cool scene with great music that's still played today. of course many other people love the cheesey stuff. the biggest selling soundtrack of all time was from a british group who made music without knowing that disco is, yet from that album some of the biggest hit singles known as disco were created. the true classic disco tracks never went near the charts until they started being sampled in tracks like ride on time by black box

as for new wave, the term was originally used in the early 70s to describe acts like velvet underground. garage was originally used to describe rock bands, whereas now it's more commonly used to describe a type of dance music, and the original techno from detroit is very different to what came later. likewise trance. the same terms are often used to describe completly different things. wireless today usually makes people think of an internet connection, but less than 20 years ago and people would think of radio for example

1967 and the Summer of Love.

1979 had Squeeze Cool for Cats too

actually, i see mgvsmith has answered this better then i could, the salient point being "Yes, it wasn't just a gay music but it was the first music scene that allowed gay, straight and racial integration in an open, liberated manner."

i dont subscribe to the "theres equal amounts of gay people liking all types of music" notion... i do believe that generally certain types of music appeal to different groups in society. i do think that % wise there would be more gay people liking disco then rock, in the same way i expect % wise there would be more afro carribeans liking reggae then ballet.


true, but tbh you could say that about most of the great musical styles as generally the 'best' material wasnt found in the commercial singles chart.

the point however was that many if not most people will think of cheesey stuff when they think of disco and think it was all cheesey, when the real stuff was cool

to some degree people may think that about dance music, and hip hop, but as they are current genres and there is the advent of the internet and multi channel tv, it's less likely people will consider those genres in such a way

fair point..