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Tom Watson: Labour is being infiltrated by "Trotsky entryists"


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Old 11-08-2016, 11:39
mungobrush
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Conspiracy nonsense.
It's happened before:

"Trotskyist entryism did not begin to bear any real fruit until the 1970s, with the rise of the Militant Tendency.
Militant drew much of its support from young people hungry for social change and disillusioned with what they saw as Labour's watered-down version of socialism - they believed capitalism was beyond reform and the only answer was to nationalise private industry without compensation.
Supporters of the Marxist newspaper Militant, they underwent intensive training in Trotskyist ideology as they set about taking over local Labour Party branches.
It was initially a clandestine organisation, with potential recruits being approached individually and invited to attend secret meetings."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37025649
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Old 11-08-2016, 11:58
Annsyre
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It's happened before:

"Trotskyist entryism did not begin to bear any real fruit until the 1970s, with the rise of the Militant Tendency.
Militant drew much of its support from young people hungry for social change and disillusioned with what they saw as Labour's watered-down version of socialism - they believed capitalism was beyond reform and the only answer was to nationalise private industry without compensation.
Supporters of the Marxist newspaper Militant, they underwent intensive training in Trotskyist ideology as they set about taking over local Labour Party branches.
It was initially a clandestine organisation, with potential recruits being approached individually and invited to attend secret meetings."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37025649
I remember it well. A very nasty time in the Labour party. But I thought that, starting with Kinnock, Labour had disinfected itself.

I can't understand why Watson is being ignored.
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:08
mungobrush
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I remember it well. A very nasty time in the Labour party. But I thought that, starting with Kinnock, Labour had disinfected itself.

I can't understand why Watson is being ignored.
Ah yes - those 1970's. The fruit of the Trotskyists:

The 3-day week
Winter of discontent
when Britain was the "sick man of Europe"

And it took Margaret Thatcher to rescue the country.
And Tony Blair to rescue the Labour party
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:25
Aristaeus
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according to SWP they have 6,000 members, but the vast majority of them are not active members. They don't have the numbers to infiltrate and take over the Labour party.
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:27
GreatGodPan
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Ah yes - those 1970's. The fruit of the Trotskyists:

The 3-day week
Winter of discontent
when Britain was the "sick man of Europe"

And it took Margaret Thatcher to rescue the country.
And Tony Blair to rescue the Labour party
So their flowering must have preceded that time.

When was it?

And I still want to know where all these "Trotskyists" have suddenly popped up from!
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:28
GreatGodPan
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according to SWP they have 6,000 members, but the vast majority of them are not active members. They don't have the numbers to infiltrate and take over the Labour party.
So they're not members then!
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:50
Javed
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Conspiracy nonsense.
except that it is already happening.
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Old 11-08-2016, 13:23
OLD HIPPY GUY
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I am amused at how the "trots" have gone from not being able to fill a telephone box, to a mass movement numbering in the tens of thousands all intent on infiltrating the Labour party,

the contradictions and the doublespeak keep on flowing, I noticed the way the BBC were desperately trying to find a way to link the proposed rail strikes with Corbyn when they were interviewing Smith, they also tried to get him to agree with Watson about "trots" but credit to him he would not let them draw him down that road even when they tried to get him to estimate just how many "tens of thousands of hardline trots have joined the Labour party"
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Old 11-08-2016, 14:18
mungobrush
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So their flowering must have preceded that time. When was it?
"Trotskyist entryism did not begin to bear any real fruit until the 1970s, with the rise of the Militant Tendency."

And I still want to know where all these "Trotskyists" have suddenly popped up from!
"One group that is still happy to call itself Trotskyist is the Workers Revolutionary Party.
The party was reluctant to talk to the BBC over the phone, but members said they believed Trotsky's philosophy had never been more relevant, particularly when it came to the way the Labour Party had "betrayed the working class".

Some of the leading lights in Militant are still active in left-wing politics and its successor organisation,
The Socialist Party, is agitating to deselect Blairite Labour MPs and backing Mr Corbyn in his battles with so-called moderate Labour MPs.
Mr Corbyn was never a member of Militant, although he fought against their expulsion in the 1980s."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37025649
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Old 11-08-2016, 16:39
GreatGodPan
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"Trotskyist entryism did not begin to bear any real fruit until the 1970s, with the rise of the Militant Tendency."



"One group that is still happy to call itself Trotskyist is the Workers Revolutionary Party.
The party was reluctant to talk to the BBC over the phone, but members said they believed Trotsky's philosophy had never been more relevant, particularly when it came to the way the Labour Party had "betrayed the working class".

Some of the leading lights in Militant are still active in left-wing politics and its successor organisation,
The Socialist Party, is agitating to deselect Blairite Labour MPs and backing Mr Corbyn in his battles with so-called moderate Labour MPs.
Mr Corbyn was never a member of Militant, although he fought against their expulsion in the 1980s."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37025649
Sorry, are you saying that these hundreds of thousands of people who have recently joined the Labour Party have migrated from organisations like the WRP?

How many members do you think they have for heaven's sake?
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Old 11-08-2016, 17:14
mungobrush
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So their flowering must have preceded that time.

When was it?

And I still want to know where all these "Trotskyists" have suddenly popped up from!
Sorry, are you saying that these hundreds of thousands of people who have recently joined the Labour Party have migrated from organisations like the WRP?

How many members do you think they have for heaven's sake?
I'm not saying it.
Tom Watson is saying it.
And all you need to know is in his letter published in full, earlier in this thread.
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:20
platelet
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That arch Blairite Owen Jones has an interesting article on the fight for the heart of momentum today. You'd almost think it was written by Tom Watson

...
These sectarians must be stopped. They are throttling the enthusiasm and excitement of the young people who have been inspired in the last 18 months. One man is uniquely placed to save Momentum from the sectarians who would throttle the enthusiasm and excitement of the young people who have been inspired in the last 18 months. That’s Jeremy Corbyn. An intervention by him would stop Momentum being taken over, allowing its rebirth as an open, campaign-focused movement. Without that, the sectarians will win. They must be stopped in their tracks. So much hope, so much optimism. We can’t let it end in rancour and betrayal.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...ctarian-labour
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:59
Video Nasty
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I have no idea what a Trostkyist is.
Anyone to the left of Thatcher is this forum is to be believed.

It's at the point that I truly believe that some within the PLP actually want a Tory win in 2020. Thats how utterly spiteful they are.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 07-12-2016, 20:34
TelevisionUser
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Tom Watson: Labour is being infiltrated by "Trotsky entryists"

Hi, Jeremy.
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Old 08-12-2016, 00:45
Under Soul
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That arch Blairite Owen Jones has an interesting article on the fight for the heart of momentum today. You'd almost think it was written by Tom Watson


https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...ctarian-labour
Owen isn't a Blairite and indeed supports many of Corbyns policies like Trident removal and is very much into the identity politics. That said because he, despite his protestations, doubts the efficacy of Corbyn and doesn't demonise the UKIP voters has lead to a fierce backlash from the hard left. In this "black and white", culture wars era he's been unfairly portrayed as a Blairite more and more and you can sense his frustration in his tweets.

I personally think that there will come a time where he has to put his money where his mouth is and consider being more active in Labour politics.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:31
james_lndsay
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Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has been accused of "peddling baseless conspiracy theories" by Jeremy Corbyn's leadership campaign. It came after Mr Watson told the Guardian Labour was being infiltrated by "Trotsky entryists" who had "come back" to bolster Mr Corbyn. Mr Corbyn's campaign team said he should be trying to "unite" the party, rather than "patronising" members.

Mr Watson said he did not believe that the "vast majority" of Labour members that have joined the party are "all Trots and Bolsheviks". But he added: "But there are some old hands twisting young arms in this (leadership) process, and I'm under no illusions about what's going on. "They are caucusing and factionalising and putting pressure where they can, and that's how Trotsky entryists operate."

"Sooner or later", he added, "that always ends up in disaster. It always ends up destroying the institutions that are vulnerable, unless you deal with it."
Mr Watson said the "Trots" did not have the party's "best interests at heart", but saw it as a "vehicle for revolutionary socialism" and were "not remotely interested in winning elections".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37022656

Good grief so now the fight is on between Labour leader and deputy leader. Can this get any more shambolic?
Im not a fan of Corbyn but Watson is just a loon, personally I'd side with a so called Trot every time (surprising considering my political viewpoint) than the odious little loon Watson who I still refer to as the Pedofinder General, clueless ignorant and destroyer of reputations.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:25
platelet
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Owen isn't a Blairite.
Sorry, Sarcasm gets lost without rolleyes. Owen was once mildly critical of St Jeremy - thus he's a Blairite in the eyes of some of Jerry's worshippers
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Old 08-12-2016, 19:23
TelevisionUser
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Owen isn't a Blairite and indeed supports many of Corbyns policies like Trident removal and is very much into the identity politics. That said because he, despite his protestations, doubts the efficacy of Corbyn and doesn't demonise the UKIP voters has lead to a fierce backlash from the hard left. In this "black and white", culture wars era he's been unfairly portrayed as a Blairite more and more and you can sense his frustration in his tweets.

I personally think that there will come a time where he has to put his money where his mouth is and consider being more active in Labour politics.
I think Owen Jones does have a point about Corbyn's competence. At his best he can do fairly well but a lot of the time his performance has been lacklustre/mediocre.

I also think he's right that ex-Labour UKIP voters shouldn't be condemned but listened too instead so that their concerns can be heard and addressed.
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Old 08-12-2016, 20:18
SULLA
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Poor old Trotsky.........he died in 1940

You'd think the chatterati could come up with a more recent bogey-man
Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an ice pick
That made his ears burn
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Old 08-12-2016, 20:52
platelet
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Anyone to the left of Thatcher is this forum is to be believed.

It's at the point that I truly believe that some within the PLP actually want a Tory win in 2020. Thats how utterly spiteful they are.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
If it walks like a duck...

Originally Posted by Gill Mountford Momentum Steering Committee & AWL Member

I think there were probably four or five people at the meeting who would say, broadly, that they like the ideas of Trotsky. We are vocal, we have things to say, we want Momentum to develop in a particular way and be a broad organisation. Some might find us overbearing but I can’t speak for others
On the plus side Jon Lansman has vowed to fight to regain/retain control from the Trots
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Old 08-12-2016, 21:18
niceguy1966
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Ah yes - those 1970's. The fruit of the Trotskyists:

The 3-day week
Winter of discontent
when Britain was the "sick man of Europe"

And it took Margaret Thatcher to rescue the country.
And Tony Blair to rescue the Labour party
I didn't realise Edward Heath was a Trot! Thanks for rewriting history for us all.
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