Sam Fox was more ubiquitous than scandalous in the 80s. She was on Wogan enough...mind you so was Cynthia Pane!

Marnie sadly does come across as a slapper and rather immature for her age.

I don't know what Sam Fox would be doing if she'd been born in the mid 90s rather than the mid 60s to be honest.

Page 3 was pretty harmless and mild by today's standards but it's worth noting that the Porn industry did still exist back then and it is something that she chose not to get involved in. Indeed, whilst I don't think she has ever indicated any shame at her topless modelling, perhaps it is worth noting that she did retire when she was still very young (about 21 I think) when i'm sure she could have kept going to make more money. So, I'n not sure we can assume she would have gone down the reality tv route and had the "anything for fame and money" attitude that many (not all) of the reality tv stars seem to have now.

In fact, although i said Fox was like a reality tv star back then, that was more to do with the tabloids interest in her than her courting fame. A better equivalent would probably be the 'wild childs' such as Mandy Smith or Emma Ridley who were getting into nightclubs and flirting with middle ages celebs made up to the nines and with their boobs hanging out every Saturday night.

I don't think Fox looks down on them exactly. I think she just took exception to being described as a 'Barbie Girl' so, 'plastic' by somebody who is as artificially enhanced as Chloe when Sam's attributes which made her famous were completely natural and I think, still are.

Vicky Pattison is another example though - knew nothing about her but really liked her in IAC and shows I've seen her in since. But i think she's very natural, she is herself, which is a quick witted, funny, attractive, gutsy and kind hearted girl. And I like that.

This. It's that I don't find them interesting, entertaining or amusing. Plenty of people do find them to be those things which is fine. I'm just not one of them.

Plus, after a while, my eyes hurt from the constant rolling.

I don't mind having one person on from every TV show just so they all get a go.

My problem is that they continuously geton Towie and Geordie Shore people on over and over again on this and now I'm a Celeb.

These are irrelevant useless people. There are plenty of TV shows out there that have never had people on Big Brother so why focus on a disgusting show like Geordie Shore and a moronic show like Towie.

I haven't even heard of Marnie or Lewis, so they have reached the stage of getting on people from it that aren't even known to any non-viewers. Without watching these shows, I knew people like Mark Wright, Amy, Charlotte, Vicky Pattison but it's getting ridiculous now.

BB creators obviously get them on because they think it will get extra viewers but why is it always just a certain type of viewers? They never want to encourage normal guys to watch the show, i mean how many footballers have been on? 30%of nation love football yet they've only had on a handful of explayers. Their are plenty of explayers who have no money now and would definitely argue in there so it's a waste not getting them on.

Why is there barely ever UK rappers in? They would definitely go on and again, they would argue as grime is basically them venting their anger anyway. Lethal Bizzle would go on as he's a fan of the show...

Here's a list of people that would be good on it without having to go down the Towie/Geordie route:
Westwood, Brian Harvey, Mike Skinner, Paul Danan, Dean Gaffney, Andy Dick, Garry O'Connor, Dapper Laughs, Tara Palmer Tompkinson, Jan Leeming, Bianca from Eastenders, The Krankies, Storage Hunters US couple, Jamelia, Miss Dynamite, Brendan from Coach Trip, Kylie from Corrie, Lady C, The Chuckle Brothers, Elaine Lordan, Jessie Wallace, Wagner, Hughie Morgan etc...

P.s Frankie is supposedly a YouTube star?! His videos get barely any views compared to real YouTube stars. How about they get on real stars like KSI or Sweet Brown or the guy that says "Damn, damn, damnnnn" instead of Frankie who is just to suit the BB bosses.

I support the people I like, simple as. Whether they come from a reality show or not doesn't bother me. On this summer's CBB, none of the reality stars interest me in any way, yet on last year's IAC, Vicky and Fearne were easily my two favourites.

In my eyes they haven't done nothing to achieve Celebrity status, I dont know how these reality shows work, but isn't it just that they turn up at named bar, once a week, and mingle with there mates, and get given a script, so even what they are saying is a whole load of bull.

Was surprised when I read on here the other day that Bear and Marnie, get paid for this, being paid to see your friends, if i was there friends I would tell them, you are getting paid to be my mate, **** off.

That is why in my eyes they aren't a celebrity.

Surprised me last night, when Lewis said to Marnie, it would be hard to get together just because of work stuff.

If they wanted to be together, dont turn up where the cameras are go and work a normal living

I don't have a problem with reality show contestants winning, I don't think there are a lot of people that do. In this instance, my gripe is more to do with the rancid personalities of said reality stars. Lewis, Marnie and Bear are just awful.

I had no issue with Scotty T winning, nor James before him. They weren't my preferred choices but it's easy to deal with them winning when they're not the aggressive, obnoxious loudmouths that the current bunch are.

I have no problem with reality stars, but because I don't watch GS, TOWIE an Ex, they just aren't celebrities to me. I liked Vicky in IAC, loved Ollie Locke in CBB and am loving Renee. I loathe Bear, Lewis and Marnie because, for me, they have no charm, intelligence, personality and nothing of any interest comes out of their mouths.

Nobody is saying that C4 BB was the height of class. It too had really lowbrow moments but the difference is they were a part of the show not the show.

What C5 have is a different beast with a narrow focus on sex and conflict.

I dunno how anyone can claim it's exactly the same with a straight face the lack of live feed alone puts paid that claim. In the civvy series the producers are always pushing for arguments and more outside info reaches the house than ever before. CBB was less damaged til recently but now seems heavily manipulated too towards Viacom personalities.

BB was always popular with young people but it didn't aim itself solely at them on C4 IMO. I got into it as a teen because my mother in her late 30s watched it.

I'd agree about being well known. To me a true celebrity, as somebody mentioned above, is somebody who you have heard of even if you don't watch their show, follow their sport or sport team, like their type of music, vote for their Political Party etc. So, going by former housemates, I don't follow football and have no interest in action, Hardman movies but I knew who Vinnie Jones was. Despite never having watched an episode of TOWIE (poSsiblky because i actually live near Brentwood and can't stand the image I understand it portrays of my area) I knew who Mark Wright, Amy Childs and Gemma Collins are but not a scooby about Lewis. I couldn't stand James whale's tv show in the early 90s the couple of times i saw it (i would actively avoid) but i knew who he was as I know the name of chat show hpsts or presenters that I don't watch now.

So, a lot of it is to do with that, I do conside them to be non entities but then that is true of a lot of the people they get in. By the same criteria, Ricky Norwood is not famous in the way Julie Goodyear is - i'd say that even people that don't watch Corrie, or weren't watching when she was in (which was about 15 years before she was in BB) would still recognise her, know she was in Corrie, probably the name Bet Lynch. I do think you'd need to watch EE to recognise Norwood and name his character as Fatboy.

So, if you accept, that really very famous people aren't going to do it now (or at least only a couple each season), and that people that are known only for one thing and by the people that watch or follow that one thing (like me with EE, or viewers of Geordie Shores) then it is fine to have them in - if everybody gets a fair share of screen time you'll get to know them.

It is more the type of people that seem to be in these shows, or at least what they believe they have to behave when in that I find objectionable.

When they're basically nice like Sam, Ollie or Scottie T, fair enough.

Agree with all of this.

It's why I stopped watching Civilian Big Brother about 10 years ago (i think the last one I properly watched was Brian Belo) because there was so much manipulation from the Producers with people getting immunity, coming in half way through, trying to trigger arguments I just didn't think it was a 'fair' competition anymore (though the rot started on that as early as BB3) or pleasant or interesting viewing. But Celeb BB did seem to retain a little more credibility for longer, plus of course there was a pre show interest:knowledge in at least some of the housemates so I watched.

I'm not sure where the idea that BB was always a young persons show has come from. I was 29 when it started, nearly all my friends and colleagues, older and younger also watched it, my Mother who was mid 60s then watched it and so did a lot of her friends. If anything i'd say it was social and professional demographic which was the principal factor when it started rather than age as the original concept was a psychological experient and most (though not all) of the housemates were intelligent and educated and it was C4 which had dumbed down a bit but still had a reputation as a minority and even elite channel.

But C4 did start going for the lowest common denominator, getting rid of the Psychological advice because it didn't suit their wants of lost of arguments and wanting to sex it up by creating situations rather than just letting them evolve naturally.

As you say, these things being part of the show, rather than THE show.

Spot on. Vicky and Fearne were lovely girls who got on with everyone and threw themselves into the show right from the off. It really does come down to personalities.

This^^^^

Agreed.

To be fair, all of them have come across quite well in the Jungle (except Gemma Collins) although Vicky and Fearne were the best.

Is this purely down to personalities and they'd be equally as nice in BB or do the different formats (Jungle is designed to make them work together, BB is designed to create conflict) mean that they think they are expected to perform differently to earn their fee, stay in?

They are so talentless and z listers, who really wants to watch them other than the younger generation who know no better. If it's classed as Celebrity Big Brother then it should be real Celebs! Singers, actors and people that have talent not wannabes like the GS, Towie and Sex on the beach characters! They all think they are bigger than they really are!

The biggest problem casting reality people on a CBB is why not also cast BB ex HM's which I find far more entertaining and more of a celebrity then some obnoxious idiots they do cast!

I would rather see an all stars or Ultimate BB2 then the obnoxious idiots from other reality shows!

I don't think it's down to the format. There have been some pretty unpleasant and selfish people in the jungle. I don't think you can hide your true personality for too long. We are unfortunate to have a group of shallow youngsters in the house this time, something that's more commonly seen in regular BB. I can understand it more then because there is a lot of money at stake so there is a reason to be competitive.

It's quite simple really, they are not celebrities.

I don't have an issue if a reality person wins-like many others i thought Scotty T was great entertainment at times. I watched Geordie Shore up until the last few series and gave up because it just got repetitive in my eyes.
I have watched BB since day 1 and have seen everything that has happened over the years and don't object to change.
I take offence at the "old timers" comment; i'm far from being old but is anyone over 30 past it now? Why should we just sit back and accept that younger people feel they have a self-entitlement to airtime.
It's blatantly obvious that C5 want a younger person to win, and yes i know that if we don't like it then we can switch off, (which i won't be doing).
If an "old timer" won then the younger viewers would no doubt kick off as much as the older viewers would if a younger person did, but that's just the way it goes. We're never all going to be happy with the result.
May the best or worst person win (depending on your view)! 🙂

I agree.

If Lewis and Bear were nice I wouldn't care if they were famous simply for their reality shows

And that is it in a nutshell!