Probably easier for me to say this as a neutral, but it's early days Dixon. Liverpool have already shown how brittle they can be this season and we know that Chelsea can dig deep.

Kante will never, ever, ever score for you though

We've had a very easy start to the season. This is our first test and we look every bit as bad as we did for most of last season. Not one Chelsea player deserves more than 4/10 so far.Shockingly poor!

I was just about to post that your quote applies almost word for word to how us united fans felt after the city match.

And then Costa went and scored

The performance was far more worrying than the result!
Tonight showed that there is very little difference between now and the garbage of last season.
Problems remain in every area of the team. A bettee keeper is a must!, An entire new defence. Matic, and Oscar must go asp. A desperate lack of creativity in midfield and no midfield general.
I always said we have no chance of a title challenge this season but top four was possible.
On tonight's showing that looks well beyond this team. We look something like 8th -6th level.
Conte will need at least 2 years to turn this around, but will he be given that time?

There's something wrong. As said at the start of the season, Fabregas should start. There'd be a lot more chances basically. It's straightforward. When Batshuayi has come on, the chances flow as well, so why are substitutions left so late?

To be fair, the starting 11 did a lot better in the second half, but that was mainly because Liverpool were tiring after their very fast and predictable first half. At the moment, Conte's choices are a bit of a mystery.

We cannot cope with pace and movement and that is down to us having far too many players who are too slow. Fabregas is slower than most so this was not the game for him.
The big worry is the sheer size of the job facing Conte and the amount of time and money he will need to get this team to be serious contenders again.
Without a shadow of doubt, we will be nowhere title challengers this season. So crap were we, we can very easily be nothing more than mid table mediocrity again. Without Costa's goals the pressure would already be mounting on Conte.
Where ever we finish we need to stick by Conte and let him get rid of all the deadwood in this squad and build an almost entirely new team.
Hopefully, Pep will only stay at City for 3 years. By then we might be ready to challenge again.

Does Conte only make tactical subs after the 70th minute mark? I'm really starting to wonder.

Doesn't matter if he sub's after 30 mins or 70 mins. For the level we want to get back to our squad is wafer thin on genuine quality. Moses and Pedro says it all.
A big worry tonight for me was how poor Hazard looked. First quality opposition and he looked like the player we saw for most of last season. Without him firing and Costa scoring we are an extremely limited team. Oscar offers next to nothing and once again against quality, Willian showed that he has little to offer other than effort and running.
We need more game changers otherwise we'all continue to be a team trying to qualify for the Europa League.

The pace and movement especially in m/f should be dealt with mainly by Kante and Matic. The whole team should be involved, but those two should be covering a wide area in front of the back 4.

For me the main problem is not enough defence splitting forward passes, and Fabregas would bring that. Liverpool don't ask Couthino to defend predominantly do they?

There's a reluctance to change a very suspect starting 11, and I'll say it again, watch him closely, what exactly does Oscar bring to the party? He's clearly a favourite of the manager's but why? Does he score regularly like Lampard did? No. Does he provide assists like Fabregas? No. Does he mainly look to play the ball forward when he can? No. Is he a great tackler in the mould of an Essien, Matic. Kante, Makalele? No.

So why is he manager obsessed with playing him in the starting 11. I just don't understand.

When changes have been made in matches, the team looks dangerous and threatening, but then the manager reverts back to the same starting 11 every game. That for me is a mystery, and it's starting to look like the manager is obsessed with playing the same starting 11 when that starting 11 is clearly not up to scratch

Imo, the players sense that his stubbornness is starting to get in the way, and are starting to lose confidence in his judgement. Hazard is a case in point.

Liverpool played very well, that should not be forgotten, and Klopp is just about the opposite to that very conservative approach. If a change needs to be made, he's fast to act. Conte is starting to look the opposite, and it's started to look a wee bit worrying.

Fabregas, Batshuayi and Moses have all had a big impact when brought on in games, so why are none of them starting?

People talked about the options Conte would bring. A back 3 maybe, 2 strikers when needed. It's starting to look like a stubborn, same, same, same again, and that's a recipe for disaster.

OK, at the moment a top 4 finish might be the best we can hope for, but I maintain that the club has the players now to challenge for the PL. It might not be the perfect squad, but it's good enough. The manager though won't utilise that squad at the moment, and appears to be suffering from tunnel vision.

I agree about Oscar, but I think it's impossible to win the title with a defence as slow and poor as ours is now!, My guess us we'll be something like 20,points off City. Sadly, I think they will be unstoppable for the next three years.
A big problem ahead us trying to completely rebuilding the team while trying to hang on to a top four place. For the start of next season I would only have Costa, Hazard and Kante in the starting 11.
Obviously the new signings will stay, but I would try and move on all the others.
Do not know why we dudn't go for Joe Hart. OK, not the best around but certainly better than what we have.
Crazy as it might sound, this being Chelsea. it would not surprise me if Conte is gone by next season. Then, who the hell would we go for?

I agree with some of that, and Conte needs to swallow his pride and be more flexible in his thinking. At the moment, he's coming across as far too rigid. He needs to start thinking outside the box, and maybe he can't do that. For the PL it's a must, although maybe not in Italy.

On the defence issue, look at what we have. Terry, a great organiser, although has never been fast, ever. Zouma, very fast and athletic. Cahill quite fast and very experienced. Luiz, can be outstanding but needs to be allowed to get forward on occasion, and sadly appears to be under strict orders by Conte not to do that.

Alonso is not the quickest although Azpi does have pace. Ivanovic? Experienced and very good in his day, but that area is still a weakness and he has lost a lot of pace.

The goals last night were not the fault of the keeper imo, and he did make an outstanding side from Origi to keep us in with a sniff.

It will be a very interesting few weeks now, and we all know that if a manger starts to fail at Chelsea, it can quickly turn into a landslide. The expression on the face of the owner last night seemed to suggest he'd rather see Ancelotti style attacking tactics, and imo the squad has the capability to do that.

A good manager at this point would sit down with the players and listen. Especially from the more senior players. Ask them what they think they should be doing. I'm not sure that Conte has that ability, but that should be the way to go. A two way dialogue.

I do not agree about Cahil having pace. Zouma has pace running but his footwork and adjusting his feet and body quickly in the penalty area is poor. The fact that old man Terry is still by far our best defender is worrying, We have kept just one clean sheet at home in 2016. I do not blame our keeper for last night but I don't rate him.
Seeing that we are utterly hopeless at defending, the only option I can see is to be far more attacking and just try and outscore the other teams, though I don't think we have enough creativity to do that either. Certainly not with Oscar and William in the team.

Oh for days when we had Cech, peaktime Terry, Gallas and Cole. A time when any team who went a goal down to us knew they were in trouble and would do very well to get just a draw. Now, we never look secure no matter what the opposition is

Overall, I think it's more about attitude and not the players. The players on the whole are very good. Let's be honest, last night Liverpool wanted it more, plain and simple. They were faster, sharper, hungrier and more clinical. Can the Chelsea players play with that intensity especially considering they're only playing one game a week? Yes they can, but they didn't. That is worrying, especially considering the lack of European football. Maybe the players are losing confidence in the manager already?

I agree, that the team needs to be attacking a lot more, and the over focus on defending especially at home is not good. We have the players to attack and cause problems but we're sitting too deep. OK, Oscar defends a bit more than Fabregas, but come on, the attacking creative focus that Fabregas brings far, far outweighs any defensive contribution that Oscar gives. It's a no brainer.

So one match lost and the guy is a disaster and will be out the door by next season. Talk about fatalistic.

I'm not saying he's a disaster or should be sacked by the end of the season.
Remember, this is a club who sacked a World Cup winning manager after half a season.
What I do say is the team needs to be almost completely rebuilt and that takes a far bit of time and that is something no manager has ever been given under Roman. Under him it's all about winning right now, if not your fierd

There's no easy answer. The rebuilding of the team should have started years ago, now we're playing catch-up. Perhaps the worse thing was winning the PL in 2014/15 ? It gave us a false sense of security. Of course it was great to be champions, but to his credit (and I know many won't agree) Mourinho was well aware of that team's limitations.
How many Chelsea players would be a shoe-in for the top clubs these days ? If we forget our natural bias, not many if we're being honest. It's been a long time since that was the case, our keeper and back four were usually the best in the EPL just for starters. Now we have Hazard (when he's on form), Costa (if you ignore his reckless attitude at times) and Kante (though he wasn't so great last night).

You can bring Fabragas in, but I dint think it will change things dramatically. He's great at what he does, finding that killer ball. But there's not much more to his game and a dedicated playmaker in the current Chelsea team looks a bit of a luxury. We could play with two up front, but you've still got a problem in CM if you want Fabregas as well. Kante alone in front of that fragile back four ? You had better hope we could attack and dominate possession for most of the 90 minutes !

Some people often criticise the hire and fire, and it has back'fired' (!) in the past. But the club has won a lot of big trophies with many different managers. If you've got the wrong manager though, it doesn't matter what players you have, you're going to struggle.

A worry even at this stage is the over emphasis on defending again. Ancelotti showed that the club can attack and win big trophies. Obviously other clubs like Barca', Real, Bayern, PSG and Man city have showed that as well. Why the over emphasis on defending? Last night, the amount of times players passed the ball backwards was ridiculous. It was like watching a rugby match. That's one huge plus with Fabregas; he is always looking to get the ball forwards.

I hope that Conte adapts, and he has to be flexible. If he can do that, it could still be a successful season.

Interesting comments about Jose and winning the title 2 years go. You question the title might have done more harm than good but cannot bring yourself to apportion blame on Jose for the problems we have now.

You talked about the need for rebuilding was years ago, and I agree. BUT, when we brought Jose back we were at the rebuilding stage and lokinf to change the way we were going to play for years to come. That is why we bought Mata, Luiz. Oscar and Hazard.
Jose came in and for very short term gain, he ripped it all up by forcing out Mata, ruining Oscar, selling Luiz, not giving de Bruyne a chance. A player running around a lot will never compensate longterm for genuine class. Goals win matches, not running and tracking back
That short term gain might be longterm pain that has very significant negative effects on the club for years to come. If we don't get back into the top four this season, then i fully exoect to see Costa and Hazard wanting to leave next year. Without those two and probably JT, we could very well become nothing more than a very ordinary mid table team.

De Bruyne did not deserve a chance (top players create their own chances and don't get given them), Luiz was a excellent bit of business and totally logical and sensible on every single logical level. Mata is a decent enough player but lack the abilities needed for the role he has given, ruining Oscar? Yes because he was this wonderful amazing player that's enough about dreamland but in the real world he was a decent player who was not fulfilling his potential, which he sill is now that's on him not anyone else. You seem to someone who refuses to accept players are intelligent and mature enough to take responsibility for their own performances and go down the stone aged excuse from a bygone age and blame the manager. The only two seasons many of these players performed to anywhere near the standard required of them was the two seasons Jose was in charge. It was always going to be a very difficult job if not impossible, He had to come in after a number of awful decisions in who we appointed manager Rafa being one of the worst ones (including even before Roman bought us)

Eden no matter what was likely to leave within the next season or so, Players today are an awful lot more business like so he will want to move and experience a new project. Costa is well Costa, He sounds like he is exactly like he is on the pitch,

The problems we have now started Carlo's last season and have been building since then. We have been average since then, We got caught up with this "image is everything" mentality and lost the winning is everything mentality that got us to the dance, It depends on what you want, If you want the Arsenal strategy in that you stay "top 4" and never win the league then ok the way we was going the season before Jose came back then maybe the route to go down, But personally I have never seen the point of finishing 2nd 3rd or 4th when you are miles behind 1st place, If we are going to be a "top 4" and never get a chance of even nearly winning the title I don't see the point.

The route we was going down before Jose returned was never going to work it was a fools errand.

The players are reasonable for the current position of Chelsea and the board for allowing us to get into a position where we cannot bring in the players needed to fix the issues

Total rubbish to say those layers only performed at their best under Jose!
The media and neutrals were really starting to rave about the potential and perfotmances of Mata, Oscar, Hazard and Luiz under Rafa.
Absolutely laughable to be critical of a player who was our main source of goals for two years running then shoved into a role he was useless at.
OK, a significant percentage of fans would never have taken to Rafa, no matter what. What we should have done was replace him with someone who would follow on from what was being built and the style of play we were aiming for years to come.
That man was never going to be Jose!
Make no mistake about it. we are entering a critical period for the club now. Our very short term thinking might be about to bite us on the bum. No club can keep getting away with only thinking about today's results.

Who cares what the media (am not sure why anyone would care about what they say) and neutrals (WTF is one of them anyway?) say? It has nothing to do with anything important,

Its not about fans "taking to Rafa" its about him not being good enough to achieve what is need to be considered a success when working at the level expected from working for a club like Chelsea

What was being built at the time was no more then a follow on from the Arsenal mentality take top 4 every season, While such a losing mentality might be ok for the media and these "neutrals but is a as far from a winning attitude as you can get.

In today's game there is no place for such long term thinking, This is something from the past, You need to live in reality and not some pipe dream. Managers/players are going to come and go in very short time spans. You can put in place certain things in place (like we did with Coutious in loaning him out at a decent level to get ready for Chelsea) but that's as long term as the modern game allows more so with what some clubs are doing now meaning that the top is going to be very crowded

There is no point in "performing" if results don't come from those performances. In which season's did we gain the RESULTS from these so called performances? Only Two seasons.

There's a few good points there, and it's wise to not get baited by some posters who talk utter rubbish and probably just want a reaction from reasonable opinions.

I'd rather focus on the now as opposed to mourhino. Look at him at Man Utd now. That's exactly what I predicted. He's finished and the hunger has gone. It's nothing personal.

De Bruyne was never given a real chance and you can't tell the manager what to do, so opinions like, it was his own fault are utter nonsense. What about Lukaku, Sturridge and others? There are too many examples of players not being given a real chance at the club to lay the blame on the players.

Overall, the club has developed a very conservative, defensive culture and that is a big part of the problems we're seeing. You could also say that maybe the players are pampered too much. Other teams such as Everton, Watford today and Swanser last week have players who are willing to lay everything on the line every week. At Chelsea now, there seems to be a culture of protecting their careers, pulling out of 50 / 50's for fear of injury.

So that would leave a team of

..............courtois
Apzi.....cahill.....zouma......alonso
.............matic.....kante
...willian......Fabregas......Oscar
................batshuayi

and on the bench

Begovic, christensen, Luiz, Remy, loftus-cheek, mikel, pedro, moses, solanke, chalobah, atsu, raman, cuadrado, kenedy, traire, wallace

As well as our fantastic youth team

Oh, i forget, if we move hazard on and costa, i expect to get £140 million for the pair


Does that sound like a very ordinary mid table team to you? Its laughable to even suggest it.

You have one player who has played very little football in this league, one who when played over here looked ok and a player who we have no idea how his current long term injury will affect him and the rest in majority of seasons have not performed to the standard they should so yes it is a pretty average team