There was nothing wrong with the mentality of the players under Rafa!
They were playing under very difficult and highly unusual circumstances with a fixture pile up, a centre toward who wasn't scoring and crowd hostility towards their own manager.
After the humiliation of being the first CL champs to go out in the the group stages, it would have been so easy for them to give half hearted performances in the Europa League, but instead, they rolled their sleeves up and really got stuck into to it. It's a nice syat knowing we are the only British club to have won 3 Euro trophies.
We got back into the top four, all that while adjustments were being made to the way we were going to play for years to come.
This comparison to Arsenal you try to make is a ridiculous one. Nobody has ever said they would be happy with years of just top four football so long as the football was pretty.
It was about building a team that could take on any team home or away with style and firepower to beat any team, rather than build a team to try and not lose big games and do no more than just trying to grind out results.
To achieve that kind of team you need the kind of players Jose has no time or faith in.l, so IMHO, it was always a mistake to bring him back. We have no CL football, look a milion miles away from the quality of City (funny how they play attacking football and win, which for some strange reason you think is beyond Chelsea and silly waste of time trying to aim for) and going backwards. We are now back to where we were before ww signed Mata and co, but in a worse state than we were back then because there's more teams at our level now. It was not worth one title to potentially be out of CL football for years to come.

Blimey, I've just seen the squad, minus Hazard and Costa, posted by a fm. A squad that would strike the fear into Stoke City.
Just take a serious look at that piss average squad and then think of the quality of players we used to have.

There is no point in being CL if you are not going to compete for titles (and to win the thing). Anytime you win a title it is worth anything. Again this being in the Champions League just for the sake of it is a media/neutral mentality (same as "nice stats").

In today's game and with the way clubs will turn over staff there is no such thing as "playing for years to come", That is not something that's going to happen in the modern game in the Premiership

I don't think its a waste of money or beyond Chelsea to play attacking football and win but more that its just not important, Its something to use as a excuse for not winning or competing for trophies. Just like fixture pile ups and hostile crowds blah blah blah blah excuse after excuse after excuse. Any time a team like Chelsea finish 14 points behind the league leaders there are issue to sort out

Is the squad good enough?

Defence:

Courtois. Dixon seems to disagree, but I don't see hIm at fault for goals conceded. There's a lack of intensity in front of him at times when closing spaces down.

Azpi. Very good and consistent.

Ivan. Has looked very suspect for around 18 months now. He should have gone by now.

Terry. Important for organisation and coaching. Can still play very well.

Cahill. An England regular. Not the fastest, but still a very good player.

Luiz. World class. Leave him alone. His personality attracts detractors and his personality is A1.

Zouma. Fast, good attitude, very good all round. Will only get better with experience.

Alonso. Time will tell.

Aina. Has looked very good, no problems.

Overall, I just don't see problems with the squad so far, with the exception of Ivan.


M/f:

Kante. World class.

Matic. Inconsistent, but still very good.

Mikel. A good squad player.

Fabregas. Luxury player? No chance. Is Couthino? Silva? Navas? Mata? All great teams need a consistent play maker. Essential.

Hazard. Can't be over worked or he is just marked out of the game. Elite level at his best, but needs other players to take the weight off him.

Willian. I'm not a fan. A player in his position needs goals and assists. He holds the ball up for far too long, his passing isn't precise enough, and he passes backwards far too often. Over rated. If the club want a hard working wide player who can defend, they can use a wing back.

Oscar. Not a fan. I know he's a good player, but he just doesn't bring enough to the team.

Loftus Cheek. A lot of developing to do.

Chalobah. I like him, but he probably won't be given a real chance.

Pedro. Not a fan. He is muscled out of PL games far too easily.

Moses. Very good, direct running and actually gets in behind which other players often fail to do.

M/f is a problem. We need more strength. The club did try and get reinforcements and failed there.


Forwards:

Costa. World class, one of the best.

Batshuayi. Should get more playing time. An excellent prospect. Needs coaching not to snatch at chances, composure when through on goal, and needs to keep the ball low more often.

Verdict. We need one more striker, and there are a few on loan who could fit the bill.

Overall, the m/f is a problem, and maybe strength in depth re' strikers. A bigger problem as said many times is the reluctance to attack more, and a reluctance to utilise the squad and rotate more. City are doing that brilliantly, as are Liverpool. It can be done.

One poster said we can't attack more because we only have Kante to cover. I completely disagree. We have a fast CB in Luiz, we have Kante, Matic and maybe Mikel to cover when several players are getting forward more. That's more than enough cover.

Tip top.

re Courtois.
While I don't think he's a bad keeper, i just don't rate him anywhere near world class.
Yes, he made good save the other night, but he also very nearly made a terrible blunder from a soft shot from Sturridge that nearly went under his arms into the goal.
His angles are not hood and was beaten inside the near post on one on ones a few times last season.
His handling isn't world class.
I thought he was poor for both Swansea goals. Again, poor on a one on one situation.
I dont have anything like the same level of confidence in him as I had with peak time Cech.

None of us want to an Arsenal and be happy with just making the CL every year and just making up the numbers year after year after year.
However, we all know in this day and age how important it is to have CL football. You won't attract or keep your best players without it if you're not in it for more than a year or two.
Without top layers we are screwed in the league, so it becomes a must.

re why media and neutrals opinions were important under Rafa.
They were more objective and not swayed by such a strong dislike like of the manager. A lot of Chelsea fans wanted Rafa out no matter what. I can understand that and I was one of then at one time
However, after a while I took the blinkers off and could see that he was starting to change things, starting to get the best out of Luiz, Hazatd, Oscar and Mata, when many said we couldn't play them all in the same team.
Yes, a lot of work was still needed on that team, not least a striker who scored goals, but I could see what we were trying to build.
OK, Rafa, might not have been the one to finish the job but we should have gone for someone who would carry on with what we were starting to build.

Who told you Chelsea fans wanted Rafa out no matter what? Some idiots who call up dumber and dumber on TalkShite? The only people who are worse then the "fans" who phone in are the ones who take any notice of them, Fans will accept anyone if they think they will bring success ( Utd's attitude to Jose is a very good example of that), I don't think you removed your blinkers where it comes to Rafa I think you put some one because 1)People spoke about Chelsea in a positive light 2)You "liked" the style of play. If Rafa had performed to the standard needed then many had no problems with him staying, You say one of the problems was having a no striker scoring goals, We had no striker scoring goals the following season after Rafa's, How many points did we finish behind the leaders? 14? 12? 10? 9? none of those it was 4, That's the standard need at a club like Chelsea,

If you think the media and "neutrals" don't wear blinkers when it comes to teams then I not sure what you are reading and watching, They have blinkers and follow a narrative when it comes to the game

There is no such thing as "building" if you want to maintain Champion League football year after year as you suggested is important. You cannot have Champions League Football and build at the same time. Its a pipe dream.

Long Term planning while staying in the top 4 in today's game is a very nice pipe dream, Its a nice romantic idea but not really something that will happen

Oh come on!
At the end of his last game in charge, Rafa got s rather muted reception despite winning us a Euro trophy and taking us back into the top four.
Oh, and thanks for telling me why i had a change of heart about Rafa. If i am someone who goes with the flow and doesn't have an opinion of their own, then I would never have been one of those who didn't want Jose to return.

I was there it was not muted it was pretty decent and it was the Johnson Paint pot trophy of Europe and again we finished 14 points behind the leaders, you might celebrate such failure and have the mentality where that is a success other people rightly expect more.. Top 4 is no more then a number if you finish so far away from 1st place, Yep I came 3rd in a race but i finished 5 days behind the winner.

Top 4 for Chelsea is not a reason to celebrate it's something any manger should do and within single points of 1st

That trusted source The Daily Star has reported that Abro' was not happy at all with Conte and his late substitutions. It's very early days, but it is very strange, and very worrying if you've invested well over £100 million recently (again) to see underpeforming players left on the field and fresh, better players sitting on the bench. Very, very odd.

'He is also understood to have questioned why Conte, with Chelsea 2-1 down from the 36th minute, waited until the 84th minute to make any substitutions.'

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/foo...rumours-gossip

why are you repeating lies?

Conte under pressure fro RA already after 1 loss by 1 goal, this is madness, & if we scored in the SH how were we "2-1 down" from the 36th min?

And The Express:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/footb...onte-Liverpool

if you cannot recognize lies and hyperbolic headlines from such comics, it will continue to cause you problems in life.

Come on lads, avoid the personal insults. Mature posters just ignore them anyway. A big match at Leicester tonight. Let's hope the football is more positive, more attacking and more together.

I don't get drawn into personal attacks and nonsense. You're wasting your time with the riling and goading. OK?

It's also laughable to suggest you'd get £140m for Hazard and Costa

In today's market ? I don't think we'd get less than £120m anyway. They were quoting £70m for James Rodriguez who struggles to get a game at Real Madrid, so at least the same price for Hazard..probaby more. Then Higuain fetched £75m, so I'm sure Costa should be worth around £50m.

£150 million or so for Hazard and Costa is realistic. The club can't afford to lose them though and have to qualify for the CL next season. Winning the PL is unrealistic I admit, but I don't think the squad is far off. The problem this season has been sticking with Ivanovic and Oscar, and making substitutions too late on occasion.

No doubt there will be some midfield reinforcements on the way in January.

I was disappointed with Loftus Cheek last night. Chalobah looked the better bet for staking a claim in the first team. A loan spell would do Loftus good, and would be a much needed reality check.

I once had very high hopes about RLC, but sadly he's going backwards at a time when he should be a regular on the squad by now, if he had what it takes.
To me, it looks like he just doesn't have the desire and fire in his belly to make it at this level.

I think its to early to say that.

I think he is in need of a season's loan deal and get some football under his belt. Can understand the reason's not for doing so up to now, I am a fan of loaning youngsters out as the youth league is not of a level needed to prepare them for playing for a club like Chelsea (and wont be without major changes that traditionalists will never accept) but he was one of those who looked like he might benefit from being in the squad but that's looking like it's not worked out so a loan deal to continue his education might be a better option for him at the moment.

Another one shifted out on loan = yet another one who will never make it at Chelsea.

Not at all.

He needs to continue his education as many young players need to do to play for a club like Chelsea. Chelsea is not the place for a young player to gain a education. Education is key to getting to the stage where players like RLC and others might be good enough to play for us.

Like Courtois was not ready for Chelsea when we bought him and also like we are currently doing like Christensen. Like we should have done with Matic and KDB (if he would have accepted a loan which sadly he was not).

You cannot go from primary school (which the youth system is) straight into uni unless you are really gifted and very few players are really gifted. Becoming a player capable of playing for a team that is expected to challenge for the league title as the game is today is a long process and one that will more often then not will take many steps.

They need the right environment to gain the knowledge to use their abilities and since Roman has bought us Chelsea has not been the right environment. We are questioning the place of far better players then RLC (even though they have performed at the highest standard) putting players like RLC under the same pressures as experienced professionals is not really fair

True. There is a big difference between under 21's and the first team. Often, he just doesn't get stuck in nearly enough and lets the play pass him by. There's something not right.

A loan deal for the lad would probably be the right thing, although I'm not totally convinced. He doesn't look hungry enough. Ake is a lot smaller in stature but clearly has some fight in his belly. I just don't see that in Loftus. It's early days though and you have to give him a chance to change.