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The Flash Season Three (US Pace spoilers tagged)


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Old 08-10-2016, 21:09
Karis
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Do you watch Legends?
I watched the first half and the last two. Trouble is I can't stand Arthur Darvill as an actor, and the whole show was just so badly written and plot wise it was a complete mess.

So I found it to be really rather terrible
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Old 09-10-2016, 00:34
egghead1
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The whole thing wasn't even about his powers, it was about the memories of the people he loves vanishing from his mind and accepting that he wouldn't be who he is without them and Wally potentially dying and seeing the people he loves in pain is worse to him than accepting his life as it was meant to be.
But all the people he loved were there,he was only losing memories of his life prior to his Mom being saved.
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:52
MR_Pitkin
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I thought Flashpoint was going to have a knock on effect on Arrow?
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Old 09-10-2016, 14:55
Schmiznurf
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But all the people he loved were there,he was only losing memories of his life prior to his Mom being saved.
He was going to lose everything that happened to him in his life from the moment his mum was killed, his friends and people he loved would mean nothing to him because the new memories were wiping away the old and taking over. In the end nothing would have been left of the Barry we knew.
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Old 12-10-2016, 00:26
F1etch
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Sorry if it's asked or answered already but what happens to young Barry while old Barry was living with mum and dad? Did he grow up to be old Barry? But by then old barry would be like 40 or something, which he obviously wasn't. Did old Barry save mum then run ahead to present day, kidnap himself then take his place living with mum and dad?

I didn't get it
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:40
Schmiznurf
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Sorry if it's asked or answered already but what happens to young Barry while old Barry was living with mum and dad? Did he grow up to be old Barry? But by then old barry would be like 40 or something, which he obviously wasn't. Did old Barry save mum then run ahead to present day, kidnap himself then take his place living with mum and dad?

I didn't get it
I imagine Old Barry would have then gone forward again to the point in time he left to find everything changed.
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:41
Schmiznurf
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Good episode and they showed us even more changes, including Diggle now having a son. It's interesting that Alchemy knows who had powers in the other timeline, I wonder if he will give powers to Wally too
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:00
ShotDownInFlame
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I'm not quite sure I'm feeling it this season yet, but Alchemy has me intrigued.

I imagine Wally will be getting his speed powers, as they deliberately made a point to have Barry say "Maybe Alchemy is giving everyone who had powers in the other timeline their powers back" whilst looking directly at Wally.

My one thing is.... Cisco's whole thing is he can essentially see alternate realities, so why, in this entire episode, was he being a total buzzkill when he - out of everybody on the team - could probably have understood Barry's dilemma the most.

Also weird to see they're making Caitlyn become Killer Frost again, wonder how that's going to play out naturally.
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Old 12-10-2016, 12:55
Alien28
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I'm not quite sure I'm feeling it this season yet, but Alchemy has me intrigued.

I imagine Wally will be getting his speed powers, as they deliberately made a point to have Barry say "Maybe Alchemy is giving everyone who had powers in the other timeline their powers back" whilst looking directly at Wally.

My one thing is.... Cisco's whole thing is he can essentially see alternate realities, so why, in this entire episode, was he being a total buzzkill when he - out of everybody on the team - could probably have understood Barry's dilemma the most.

Also weird to see they're making Caitlyn become Killer Frost again, wonder how that's going to play out naturally.
BIB - two things about this, Wally will almost certainly be getting his powers back, that was made blindingly obvious. But also, what basis did Barry have to theorise that Dr Alchemy would give people their abilities back from the other timeline?

What's the odds that Dr Alchemy turns out to only exist because of Barry's time meddling, just to squeeze a bit more guilt out of the whole situation?
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Old 12-10-2016, 13:34
zwixxx
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When the gang said "we don't want to know about our Flashpoint Universe lives" I was confused. Since Barry's actions had lead to TWO new Universes, why no mention about the Original one ? Since the NOW does have some differences to the ORIGINAL there would be stuff he could tell them. Surely something like "we don't want to know who things were before" would've been more appropriate.
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Old 12-10-2016, 15:43
Dog_Bot
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BIB - two things about this, Wally will almost certainly be getting his powers back, that was made blindingly obvious. But also, what basis did Barry have to theorise that Dr Alchemy would give people their abilities back from the other timeline?

What's the odds that Dr Alchemy turns out to only exist because of Barry's time meddling, just to squeeze a bit more guilt out of the whole situation?
I'm betting that "CSI Draco Malfoy" isn't him though - that's just a red herring.

I think/hope Draco might actually be this character -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mercury

Last edited by Dog_Bot : 12-10-2016 at 15:45. Reason: wording wrong
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Old 12-10-2016, 17:11
Flash525
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Odd that I enjoyed episode 2 a lot more than I did episode 1.

Points of Interest:

1) Alternate Earth Timelines; it would appear when Barry alters the timeline of one Earth, that has no effect on the timeline of another Earth. If that was the case, then Jay wouldn't have been able to step in and have that chat with Barry. It does beg the question why Jay didn't step in and help a little earlier though?

2) Alternate Earth and Ultimate Earth; Alchemy said something about preparing the world? Preparing it for what I wonder? He's seemingly aware of the alternate timelines (and yet, he doesn't know Barry is the Flash which I find interesting). Is it possible that Alchemy (or whoever he's working for?) is going to be responsible for a Crisis-level event?

3) Did my eyes deceive me, or was Tom Cavanagh shown on the intro for this episode? I didn't see his name on the first episode, and yet he didn't show up at all. Presumably there is a (still living) version of him in this new timeline (cause Eobard didn't need to become him to get back home) and presumably he's the one who's running Star Labs. No mention of the character? I guess that'll be Barry's next surprise.

4) Barry's Memory; if his memory attempted to correct itself when he altered the timeline ones, why isn't it doing so now?

5) The Rival; the only reference I can find to this character is that he's actually an enemy of Jay Garrick, and not Barry Allen/Wally West. That said, what a lame name.

6) Caitlyn


Sorry if it's asked or answered already but what happens to young Barry while old Barry was living with mum and dad? Did he grow up to be old Barry? But by then old barry would be like 40 or something, which he obviously wasn't. Did old Barry save mum then run ahead to present day, kidnap himself then take his place living with mum and dad?
I'm confused by your meaning. When you say young Barry, you're referring to the one that was present at the time of his Mom's not death? He'd have grown up normally, and lived with his parents and became current Barry; remember his memories started to change, so he'd have essentially merged with his new self from a consciousness point of view.

Good episode and they showed us even more changes, including Diggle now having a son. It's interesting that Alchemy knows who had powers in the other timeline, I wonder if he will give powers to Wally too
This was heavily implied. Not only did the screen pan to Wally when it was being mentioned, but also Kid Flash is a prominent character in the comics, and I find it hard to believe they'd bring the character in for a single episode. I do hope though that at some point (maybe Season 4?) Wally gets his Silver costume. Looks much better than the Yellow/Red one.

My one thing is.... Cisco's whole thing is he can essentially see alternate realities, so why, in this entire episode, was he being a total buzzkill when he - out of everybody on the team - could probably have understood Barry's dilemma the most.
Cisco had the ability to see alternate timelines. The Cisco we presently have isn't the same one as we've known before; small differences in the timeline and all that. It's possible he hasn't developed that ability yet.

Also weird to see they're making Caitlyn become Killer Frost again, wonder how that's going to play out naturally.
I'd be surprised if she becomes Killer Frost. Isn't the Caitlyn Snow version of Frost more less of a villain, and more of a person trying to survive? To make her a villain would (eventually) remove her from her prominent role on the show. I don't think they're ready for that yet (if ever).

I'm betting that "CSI Draco Malfoy" isn't him though - that's just a red herring.
Hasn't Tom Felton already been promoted as being Alchemy? Swear that's what was said at ComicCon..


...and a bunch of stuff I still don't get;
* Thawne is still very much alive, and presumably travelled back to his original (future) timeline. The Barry Allen of that timeline has what? Come to terms that his Mom had to die? Surely (at some point) his Mom was never meant to die?

* Thawne still being alive promotes the idea that both Eddie and (the original) Harrison Wells being alive. No mention or reference to either of them (yet). The same applies to Ronnie Raymond (read on)

* If Thawne didn't kill (and become) Wells, then Wells wouldn't have started his particle accelerator project as soon as he did, and thus Barry wouldn't have become the Flash as early as he did (and by default, shouldn't even be the Flash now). How are metas existing if the particle explosion hasn't happened yet? By my understanding, it actually happened when Barry was older, so none of these metas should exist at all.
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Old 12-10-2016, 17:48
SilverCrown
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Glad we got to see Jay again.
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:22
ShotDownInFlame
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Glad we got to see Jay again.
We did? Must have missed that
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:31
TWS
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We did? Must have missed that
The real Jay is the old Flash literally...Barrys dads double
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Old 12-10-2016, 23:16
Motthus
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I really enjoyed the episode and good to see effects from Flashpoint not just affecting Flash as shown by Diggle son and maybe we will see more in Arrow as that continues

It was nice to see the original Jay stopping Barry going back further in time to change more and the speech between them!

Did anyone else notice the person watching Flash throw The Rival over the edge at the docks whilst they were fighting? I thought it looked like it was Harrison Wells from this new timeline!
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Old 12-10-2016, 23:28
ShotDownInFlame
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The real Jay is the old Flash literally...Barrys dads double
Oh god I totally goofed

Thought they were referring to Zoom Jay
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Old 13-10-2016, 00:00
Corwin
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4) Barry's Memory; if his memory attempted to correct itself when he altered the timeline ones, why isn't it doing so now?


When he created the Flashpoint Timeline he did so by making a major change to his own personal timeline (saving his Mother) thus giving himself two sets of memories.

Only one set of memories could survive.

In the current Timeline Barry doesn't have two sets of memories so just retains his original ones.

As to why he doesn't remember the current timeline i would guess that's because any changes that have been made are not due to Barry altering his own past but to other factors.



I wonder is he is going to tell Felicity that he can't/won't change the Timeline?


Given Diggle now has a Son does that mean that Series 1 of Legends took place in the current Timeline.


Totally did not recognise Dracro
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Old 13-10-2016, 00:09
koantemplation
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Obviously in terms of story telling, Barry forgetting about his original timeline gives something for him to lose and so a reason to have to change things back.

Whether there is a timeline he would be happy to end up in and not worry about losing his memories of his previous timelines is yet to be shown.
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Old 13-10-2016, 03:15
007Fusion
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I'm getting tired of the time-travel plot device and the constant restructuring of the timeline(s); It's interfering with continuity and feels more like the writers are trying to fix their mistakes rather than the character fixing something in-show.

'The Rival' has to be the lamest speedster of the three (and yes, they've progressively gotten worse). He barely has a motive and is too 'jumped-up jock', which doesn't really work well with the Flash's natural snideness. There is simply no chemistry there.
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Old 13-10-2016, 07:52
Karis
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I'm getting tired of the time-travel plot device and the constant restructuring of the timeline(s); It's interfering with continuity and feels more like the writers are trying to fix their mistakes rather than the character fixing something in-show.
Agree. This show went from being one of my faves to all but losing me. Didn't they promise no more bleedin' crying? Dear God - it's lost all its joy.

And all the changes would be awesome, but they've done that to death now...
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Old 13-10-2016, 09:34
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The Flash is all about time travel if you (without spoilers) do a bit of research into the comics.
It makes me wonder a few things from a poetic p.o.v...

Does Barry's constant time-altering make him genuinely the culprit when it comes to why reverse flash hates him so much?

Whenever we don't understand the paradoxes from consequences in time travel, I believe it is because future time changes will soon mix in to the reality we are assuming goes by linear logic, but it doesn't, linearity went out of the window from day 1 (reverse flash's origin ep or even "before")?

I think the reason Barry and airis are drawn together NOW is because their alternate timeline futures even though erased keep shimmering into their memories and creating feelings even though the past isn't physically tangible for them in those respects.

I love the way that Tom Cavanagh / Harry is NOT in these episodes yet. I mean, he's my favourite actor on the show, and him NOT being there is already giving me the hiebiejiebies!
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Old 13-10-2016, 14:43
Flash525
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I really enjoyed the episode and good to see effects from Flashpoint not just affecting Flash as shown by Diggle son and maybe we will see more in Arrow as that continues.
Speaking of Diggle (and his now son), I read something online about this.

Have you watched Legends of Tomorrow? Remember Connor Hawke? Diggles Son? Granted it was an alternate timeline (from the perception of the Legends team) but there's dots to connect there.

Did anyone else notice the person watching Flash throw The Rival over the edge at the docks whilst they were fighting? I thought it looked like it was Harrison Wells from this new timeline!
I just assumed it was Alchemy?

Thought they were referring to Zoom Jay.
An easy mistake to make considering the twist they threw at us. Maybe (for all intense purposes) moving forward, we should rename the characters? Barry can remain The Flash, Wally will become Kid Flash, Jay can become Daddy Flash, and Bart (if/when introduced) can become Baby Flash.

As to why he doesn't remember the current timeline i would guess that's because any changes that have been made are not due to Barry altering his own past but to other factors.
I guess that's the best/only explanation we're going to have to run with.

Given Diggle now has a Son does that mean that Series 1 of Legends took place in the current Timeline.
You've read the rumours too, huh? I presume not though. The Star City we saw (with old Ollie) was still an alternate timeline per the result of Savage messing with the timeline. At least that's my understanding of it. Shame they didn't recruit Connor into S2 Legends, but then to have an Archer in the team would probably (significantly) take away from the Arrow series.

Whether there is a timeline he would be happy to end up in and not worry about losing his memories of his previous timelines is yet to be shown.
Presumably he'd be happy married to Iris, and having his Mom & Dad alive and well (even though they'd both die again of natural causes at some point, so he'd still get the heartache).

I'm getting tired of the time-travel plot device and the constant restructuring of the timeline(s); It's interfering with continuity and feels more like the writers are trying to fix their mistakes rather than the character fixing something in-show.
Heh, fixing their mistakes by making a bunch of new ones.

'The Rival' has to be the lamest speedster of the three (and yes, they've progressively gotten worse). He barely has a motive and is too 'jumped-up jock', which doesn't really work well with the Flash's natural snideness. There is simply no chemistry there.
I agree. There doesn't seem to be an actual purpose to him. Lame suit too.

Agree. This show went from being one of my faves to all but losing me. Didn't they promise no more bleedin' crying? Dear God - it's lost all its joy.
Hah!!

The Flash is all about time travel if you (without spoilers) do a bit of research into the comics.
It actually isn't though. Time Travel is an element of Flash, but it isn't what Flash is about. There's only a few significant time travel stories in the comics (as far as I'm aware). Everything else he comes up against he just deals with via his speed.

Does Barry's constant time-altering make him genuinely the culprit when it comes to why reverse flash hates him so much?
It's possible. We still don't know Eobards motives. Why did he want Barry to suffer the loss of his Mom? Maybe Barry does something (in the future) that erases someone Eobard loves/loved? I can't think of any other reason.

I love the way that Tom Cavanagh / Harry is NOT in these episodes yet. I mean, he's my favourite actor on the show, and him NOT being there is already giving me the hiebiejiebies!
I'm again in agreement. He's rumoured to be back for episode 3 though, however I couldn't tell you which version of him it'll be.
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Old 13-10-2016, 16:51
Cadiva
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Looks like season 2's poor writing and general stupidity is carrying over to season 3. To me, the gist of this episode is that Barry loves his powers more than he loves his parents.

Not for the first time, they've made Barry look like an absolute prick.
It had nothing to do with his powers. It was about Barry's happiness coming at the cost of everyone else's lives being changed.

The whole thing wasn't even about his powers, it was about the memories of the people he loves vanishing from his mind and accepting that he wouldn't be who he is without them and Wally potentially dying and seeing the people he loves in pain is worse to him than accepting his life as it was meant to be.
Exactly. Barry's whole life hinges on the moment his mother was murdered by Eobard Thawne. He went back to that moment, thought he'd fixed in but, in doing so, he threw the timelife even further off whack to the point that in the alternative universe, everything Barry held dear - his family life and his relationship with Iris - was at the expense of someone else he loved - Joe West - having their life ruined.

So he chose to take Thawne back to the original Flashpoint and - as Barry thought - return the timeline so it would be back as it was. Instead, Thawne did his own trickery and we don't know yet what the ultimate result of that will be (I've not seen this week's yet).
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Old 13-10-2016, 20:03
Motthus
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Yeah Flash525 I have since read about the link between Diggle son and Legends Of Tomorrow which is good to see Flashpoint having effects across Arrowverse!

I thought it Harrison Wells rather than Dr Alchemy because it looked like he was wearing a cap rather than hood

Although after watching next week preview I might be wrong!
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