No Alchemy this week

Theory on who Alchemy may be if they go the comic book way.

That reveal would ultimately be too obvious, though with the writing the way it's been lately, you're probably spot on.

Not sure how I feel about HR. It's great to see Tom C chewing the scenery, but I think I'd rather have Earth-2 Harry back!

I thought everyone already assumed he was, I certainly did

It's more the twist of

I think everyone is/was under that impression because he was the new actor cast in the show, and conveniently we've also got a new villain that's been cast. People have just (naturally) put the two together.


Surely from a biological point of view, the powers would belong to both of them, only one party (in this case, Alchemy) is aware of them, and uses them.

I absolutely love Tom Cavanagh, this latest incarnation of Harrison Wells is absolutely ridiculously funny because he's such a fraud. I love that instead of going down it's just another scientist Wells road, they've made him absolutely useless as a scientist!

I really really hope Julian isn't Alchemy, even if they do the comic book split personality route, it would just be horribly obvious. I like that he's just a bit of a git and had all these preconceived ideas about metas and The Flash etc. I like that they opened up his background a bit in this week's episode so you saw more of why he's like he is. You can totally understand why he would be pissed at Barry seeming to get away with everything.

The "monster" was a bit rubbish this week, I guessed it was a hologram from the beginning but obviously didn't have the reason why and I liked that it also mirrored what was happening in Barry's world with Julian.

Caitlin's monster inside story line is also progressing well, it's good to see more of her background and the similarities between her and her mother and what "our" Caitlin pre-Flashpoint had almost gone through when she closed herself up after Ronnie's second death (having already done through the first one).

Lots of speculation she's going Buffyverse and Dark Willow-esque and will be the actual season villain rather than either Alchemy or whassisface we've not got yet, Savitar the other speedster.

I'm calling it now - Alchemy is the female DA who is getting friendly with Joe

- Alchemy is involved with the other villain Savitar - who is named after a Hindu deity
- The DA appears to be of Indian descent which could tie her into Savitar.

I don't think they could have made it any more obvious that Julian is Alchemy...

"Where's Julian?"
"I don't know."
"OK, lets go get Alchemy then..."

Since that scene I can't help but hear Julian's voice in Alchemy, I know it's distorted but it did sound kinda like him.

Alchemy is neither female or English. When i hear Alchemy i just imagine him asking if anyone wants to play a game. Not saying Julian isn't him he just doesn't sound like him

I think that can be explained by the fact that someone else is voicing him at the moment

I think it's the guy who played Jigsaw in the "Saw" films.

Also found at last week that Prometheus in Arrow is currently being voiced by Worf from Star Trek (the actor anyway).

Its common sense not to expect a female to voice a male character. I doubt when Alchemy gets unmasked it will turn out to be Bart Simpson.

How did Barry know if Caitlin did or didn't have "Killer Frost" powers in the original time lime or "Flashpoint" it's possible she was keeping them secret there to so what he did wouldn't have made a difference.

Oh shit, I thought it was just an uncanny resemblance to Tobin Bells voice but it actually is his voice behind alchemy. My mind has been blown!

It defo is being too obvious its Julian. Could be a double fake. And a speed God? Fed up with Barry meddling. Of time so is undoing his undoing of Flashpoint?

I'm in agreement with you here. If it is Julian, then it's too obvious. How convenient that he didn't turn up for work on the day Wally was receiving messages. I too hope it isn't Julian.


It'll be interesting to see where they go with the character. If I'm not mistaken, she (the character in the comics) is a supervillain, though Caitlyn is an integral part of the team at the moment, and I can't see her being wrote out or change into a reoccurring character. Maybe, for the purpose of the show, she'll be cured? No doubt she'll go through a troubling phase at some point (and battle Cisco), but I struggle to think it'll be a permanent thing.


If you're right (which you may well be here, as the other Alchemy candidate is too obvious) then this would be a welcome and interesting twist. I do get the impression though that Alchemy is a puppet to Savitar.

Speaking of Savitar, there's a lot of people who aren't too fond of the appearance, hardly surprising. Who knew Megatron was going to show up on the Flash! I do wish they'd simplify the speedster costumes a little bit though. Think back to Season #1, we had Barry in his red costume, and Wells/Thawne in his Yellow/Black one. Zoom should have had a similar Black one, and maybe Savitar a Blue/Black one, all of similar (yet unique) appearance. Would save on the CGI budget for sure, especially with Savitar.

What's the deal with all the evil speedsters (minus Thawne) having blue energy too?


I think it's too obvious. It's a red herring. The writers want us to think it's Julian, but it wont be.


I guess Barry was just assuming. In retrospect, considering they are different timelines, there's not really that much of a difference between the two, other than Julian. People still died (Ronnie), people still left on a time ship (Legends), people still use Bows & Arrows in the modern world (Arrow)... Aside from Alchemy, the only noticeable differences we know (for a fact) are Julian and Jiggle Jr... ... ...and a few extra rooms in Star Labs.


I doubt that. It's more likely just another Speedster with a complex who think's he's all powerful or something. He appeared to exist outside of the normal time frame too; notice how Joe & Wally couldn't see him when he was standing still (and had Barry by the neck)..?

My guess for that future scene is that Cisco is actually the bad guy, either taken over by some force or an evil Cisco from another Earth.

Caitlin ends up embracing her powers and using them to help Team Flash.

Alternatively, Cisco's vision could merely be of Vibe and KF training in battle so she learns to control her powers and use them to fight?

The blue lightning? Guess there's no connection to Zoom, who is rumoured

What happened to Wally at the end of the episode?
Did he transmute into a pillar of charcoal?

I still think they won't be able to resist Caitlin going full Killer Frost, at least for a short time. I'm wondering if there's more of an ideological split, rather than a simple good v evil - that storyline with Alchemy and Savitar feels like it's leading to an internal team split, especially with Wally likely to be given his powers at some point. Cisco perhaps decides that his friendship with Caitlin is more important, and Caitlin persuades him that Barry's meddling with time means they can't trust him. Certainly, there is a whole bunch of stuff this season that points to people getting hacked off with metas and their abuse of their power. I'm imagining that Cisco promises Caitlin that her inner Killer Frost can be controlled, and he can help her do it, given his own Vibe powers - and that perhaps leads to several of the Scooby gang picking sides.

Plus, it feels like Cisco is a bit sidelined this season, with relatively nothing to do, whilst Caitlin gets all of that character development. I suspect they can't leave him just as the tech guy much longer, before it gets really boring. Well worth a short trip to the dark side, if it pushes his character on a bit! There's a lot of the season still to go - I think they'll have to pace the whole Alchemy/Savitar mythology to run the whole length of this season, whilst using the team dynamic issues to push smaller stories along.

BTW, Tom Felton is a fantastic addition to this show, I'll be really gutted if he turns out to be a Big Bad. I think he's got masses of potential for long term integration in the Flash universe, if they swerve around the teases (IMO red herrings) about his absence during Alchemy's appearances.

That would be preferred, but I think it unlikely. There's a reason the character exists the way she does in the comics, then again, in the comics Snart & Rory aren't antiheroes, yet they were on Legends, so I guess anything is possible.


In the middle of the woods? Seems unlikely!


Maybe, but then surely the Time Wraith will be after Savitar too? Of all the Speedsters we've seen, their colour lightning varies. I'm wondering whether there's a purpose to that. Thawne had a distinct colour, but even Jessie's colour varies compared to Barry.


No, not charcoal. Any meta from the alternate timeline goes through some sort of metamorphic(?) phase, hence why Barry & Julian have been finding what appears to be skin lying around. Think of Wally as a Butterfly; he entered a cocoon as a mere human, and will exit a metahuman.

Nice.
I wasn't connecting the dots properly.

It does irk me a bit that Savitar might not want The Flash around yet is perfectly happy for Kid Flash to be around. Or at least I assume that's how the plot will go...

Am I the only one who thinks Wally is an annoying whiny brat?

I'm honestly sick to death of hearing him winge about not having powers. Everyone was hit by the particle excellerator. Not everyone got powers. He seems to be the only one unable to deal with it. And it's actually starting to really grate on me now.

His whining has certainly become caricatured.

But if anything, he should have got his powers in the same vain that Jesse now has hers.
No doubt there's more to it that ignited her alignment to the speedforce since Barry exploded through both of them in series 2, but perhaps it's the earth-2 events we never saw that hopefully get revisited at some point, since, well, Cisco had a vision of the future where earth-2 was rent in two but never came true afawk but I've started to ramble for a while now goodnight.

Finally caught up. Not sure quite how I feel about that episode, it was all a bit all over the place with two many different threads running through which weren't marrying up well at all.

Shade was utter rubbish as the villain (which in itself is crap as he's a complex character in the comics), no explanation of why he just picked random Asian trader yuppy bloke to off on the pier, turns up as a distraction at movie night, fair enough, but is then brought down within five minutes.

Julian doesn't turn up for work and Alchemy starts calling Wally - this better be a red herring or this show will have really dropped the cliche-ist of cliches and Savitar is pants, giant bloody bot (although voiced by the fabulous Ciaran Hinds) and absolutely nothing like his comic book incarnation. At least the other speedsters have resembled their origin look!

Plus what happened to - and who were - all the other random bods in Alchemy's little underground lair!

Interesting homage to Twister when Shade appeared at the movie in the park event and that's one of the few Easter Eggs this week. Everything else was all a little bit blah.

The Caitlin/Cisco smack down - that could just as easily have been him Vibing through to an alternate universe where she's a hero, especially given Cisco looked like he was in Reverb gear!
Wally was whinge factor 9, I do get it though that he feels somehow done out of his powers, but every one of them told Barry they didn't want to know what happened in the alternative before Flashpoint.

But I think the biggest problem I have with all these little threads running though is that the week after Thanksgiving we've got the whole four episode DC crossover starting and we know that the big bads in that have absolutely nothing with what's going on in The Flash atm!

So for one episode it's going to be something utterly different but something we know is affecting all the Arrowverse and then we'll just be expected to pop off back to Alchemy/Savitar-land with Barry.

I've really loved The Flash this season so I'm willing to give them a not so hot episode.

I presume they were the remaining Meta's Alchemy has created.

As to what happened to them, maybe new Speedy whisked them away to safety before attacking Barry.

Well that was a load of shite if I'm honest. Alchemy's identity reveal was just stupid (because of who it is, and the blatantly obvious clues that have led to this). I'm not quite liking Savitar either; would be nice to find out where he's been hiding during Season 1 and 2, and where he's from (we know the future, but that's about it).

I'm also getting the feeling that Savitar isn't human; when he's speaking to Barry, or Alchemy (I can't remember who it was now) his mouth moves and shows teeth, either built into the suit, or under it; those teeth don't look remotely human, and the size of Savitar would imply there's something inhuman underneath the armour. Credit to the special effects I suppose, but that's about it. Barry (and now Wally) are going to have their work cut out for them if they ever want to beat Savitar.

And Caitlyn; that was a poor show all round. She goes evil, then suddenly can control herself when she finds her emotion again? So what, she has a darkness in her that could take over any minute? I'm confused why her powers (seemingly) make her evil; no other meta (that I know of) has a split personality due to their powers.

Not impressed with this episode at all if I'm honest, and Julian is a prick for what he did to Barry, a hypocritical prick too, considering.