But does Julian know he is Alchemy?

I'm also wondering if Alchemy is actually the glowing stone & just takes over a host body when needed.

Last episode it seemed to be talking directly to Wally & then cocooned him while Alchemy was on the floor.

Well he knows where the costume is, so I'd say yeah!

Alchemy may have already took over by then.

I think Savitar is human but is half trapped in the speed force hence why it looks like tunnels when he runs.

In the comics some Speedforce uses can manifest a costume so I think that is what this is just how he wants it to look.

I actually really liked this episode as it was good to see Caitlin as Killer Frost but it was a pity that they returned her to being Caitlin by the end of the episode.However I get the feeling that this was just a tease of Caitlin abilities and what she will become which I think we will see more of it later in the season!

I just wonder if we will get Cisco also turning to the dark side and becoming Vibe after now knowing that it's due to Barry doing Flashpoint that his brother is dead!

It was no surprise to see that Julian was revealed as Alchemy as I think most viewers had already guessed that by this point but at least they didn't drag it out

Savitar to me just looked like a reject from a Transformers film but I still enjoyed him dragging Barry all around the city at the start of the episode.I just hope he isn't the main villain as I can't take him seriously despite being a speedster

I liked the fact that they kept Wally in the cocoon for most of the episode but that's mainly because I'm not fond of the character!

It seems after this event filled episode that Team Flash is fragile going into the 4 part crossover event although they will properly not even mention the events of this episode in the crossover episode!

Overall though a very enjoyable episode that moves the Flashpoint storyline along greatly!

That could be the twist Cisco Vibed and saw "Killer Frost" vs "Vibe" and assumed she was the villian what if he was the villian and her the hero.

I think you're right. I've seen numerous trailers for the crossover, and not one of them has shown Wally as Kid Flash. I don't think I've seen Caitlyn in any of them either, nor Ragman (from Arrow).

Also, if the current rumours are right, about the crossover starting at the end of Supergirl, then it's not really a four part episode, it's more like three, and a bit. They should have Barry and Cisco being Kara to Earth 1 at the beginning of the Supergirl episode, not the friggin' end.

Also, an alien invasion, and they don't think a couple more speedsters (Jessie & Jay) could be useful aids?

I get where everyone's coming from by attesting to various frustrations at the episode, so I don't mind you guys having those views.

I did think the acting of Caitlin, Cisco, HR, Julian and to sone extent Barry was excellent this week. I really felt for the characters and I myself enjoyed many of the scenes.

Is it safe to assume that we've now seen Cisco's vibe of him and KF fighting? It doesn't have to match exactly, right?
But then, I am feeling that Cisco is leaning "to the dark side". Oh, come on, you know that's how he would have worded it!

I'm two episodes behind but why have they Jar Jar Bink'd up HR?

Yes the series needed an injection of humour but not like that.

Finally caught up with last week's episode. Yeah, that was a bit all over the place - superb acting chops notwithstanding from various cast members.

I'm so disappointed they made Julian Alchemy. It's just ridiculously obvious and cliched and trite. There better be some bloody twist to it otherwise, utter crap.

The best thing about this episode was showing Team Flash fracturing. They're clearly going for the "break them down before building them back up" overall narrative this year but sitting it on top of Doctor Alchemy/Savitar.

I seriously can't get with Savitar, the design is dreadful, he looks like he stepped off the Transformers set and had a run in with a Predacon.

Anyways, we finally get Barry called out on Flashpoint and its effects but, being fair, every one of them said they didn't want to know about their past lives and what was different and Barry admitted from the start he was the one responsible for the timeline changing.

So instead of being punished for that, Julian's able to enact a punishment by forcing him out of his lab in return for his silence.

I didn't think there was anything in particular which was outstanding enough to make this obviously a Kevin Smith episode. Iit didn't have any particular quirky nature or something out of the norm but I guess that's perhaps expected, after all not everything can include Silent Bob!

Although, actually, having said the above, he very definitely got the emotional core of the episode right and that is one of his main strengths as a director so I take it back, emotionally it was very Kevin Smith!

One thing to take away though was the different version of Killer Frost that Danielle Panabaker created in this episode, she wasn't hammy or camp like on Earth 2, she was heart of heart, cold and twisted inside. Describing herself as broken was so apt.

Hmm, guess all I can really say without going into spoilers is that I very much enjoyed the crossover episode.

^ ditto...... how awesome was that ?! :0MGthatwassoawesome:



and yes I know we don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread but fooey

just one thing



btw

Did no one else watch it ? Or did yawl faint due to its awesomeness.

Meh. I was left decidedly uninspired. All I could think was

And that the writers were probably felating each other over such a genius and action-packed storyline...

It's not awful and it's nowhere near as bad as Batman v Superman so it's still a massive +1.

That's one heck of a crossover episode.

I didn't like it because the script was so trite. Since deadpool especially I get the feeling the 'funny' one liners are all the rage. I don't watch any of these shows but thought I would watch the crossovers. What I hated about the Flash bunch are the women especially Iris. She is young but acts like a drill sergeant and CEO. She also is planned up to the nines and wears high heels. It reminds me of Tippi Hedren in the Birds with pencil skirt, handbag and high heels; totally inappropriate for running. What does Iris do but spout supposed pearls of wisdom to characters. It is salad that it is 2016 and women are still portrayed as beauty and appearance first. Barry is a beanpole and is not glammerised up for the girls. The other males don't have flattering suits to show muscles. By the way I did fast forward so might have missed a mention; where is Superman?

I didn't much care for it tbh.

Sure, there was lots of "WOW THEY ACTUALLY GOT THESE 4 SHOWS TOGETHER" novelty factor a la Avengers but when you step back it really wasn't anything to write home about.

- This was effectively the Oliver and Barry show this week, ft. Cisco the Dick (quickly becoming my most hated character, what are they doing with him?!) and West Family Drama (because we haven't seen enough of that amirite?)

- Supergirl was adorable and was generally handled great but that fight between her and The Flash could have been a lot better than "Catch Me If You Can"

- Why the hell was everyone so pissed at Barry?! The only person who has a right to complain to Barry about his time meddling is Caitlyn, who - ironically - was one of 6 people NOT giving Barry hell. Why is Cisco still such a prick about it? And why did Dig get so annoyed when he still has a son? And the Legends? What the hell was their reasoning?

- So the Legends of Tomorrow did *literally nothing* except get their butts handed to them and lecture Barry about messing with the timeline - which, is clearly ridiculous given they change the timeline in some way every episode.

- Speaking of the Legends, last episode of LoT we got a sweet tease of Captain Steels new suit, but fast forward to this week and...? "SORRY NEW PEOPLE GOT LEFT BEHIND ON THE SHIP" WHAT?! WHY?? If there are aliens surely you'd want to use every person available...

- While it was cool that we got confirmation that Stein effectively created his own daughter by messing with his own timeline, I feel like that should have been saved for LOT as it was totally glossed over here "Oh hello I'm looking for my wife... OH YOU'RE MY DAUGHTER COOL GOTTA GO"

- Felicity continues to make me cringe: "Best. Team up. Ever." I bet the writers were very proud of themselves...

Meh, that was pretty under-whelming, even compared to last year's mediocre crossover. Supergirl was the only real bright spot. She's just do adorable. Interesting to see how she suddenly seems more powerful on Earth 1. Any one of those shots she took during the training session would surely have sent her crashing through styrofoam concrete on her own world It seemed like it was more of a target practice session than actual training, though. And ironically, it didn't seem to pay off, as Diggle, Canaray and Speedy still couldn't hit Oliver running in a straight line with Wally on his back. And then they were nice enough to stop shooting when they actually got within range. Sharp writing.

So is this two crossovers in a row, where Oliver and Diggle would have been killed by one of their villains, if Wally hadn't raced in and pulled them out? I guess that guy had better aim than Diggle, Canary and Speedy. Maybe they should have recruited him.

The Hall of Justice was kinda neat, even if the visuals took a bit of a dive, once we saw it from the back.

Cisco just seems to take every possible opportunity to be a whiny little <beeep>, and decides an alien invasion is the right time to sow distrust among the team. Good call. He's becoming almost as annoying as Wally.

Speaking of Wally, not that I in any way want to see more of him, but I don't quite follow the logic that he isn't ready, yet nobody has any issues with Barry, the dumbest man alive, constantly making a mess of things, when pretending to be a hero.

Overall, the whole thing was just kind of a sloppy mess with a few so-so action sequences thrown in. And it felt like there were too many useless, unnecessary characters. I actually think it would have been a cool twist for them to bring along Team Cadmus from Supergirl's world. Those guys really don't like aliens, and it would have made for a more interesting team dynamic.


Nah, annoyingly quippy characters go at least as far back as Joss Whedon's TV stuff.

Hmmm, you guys are really not selling me this crossover at all, lol.

I'm already a bit meh with the Flash this season - the humour saves it sometimes . As for Arrow, jeeeeez loouisee .....

Supergirl and LoT were a non-starter for me from the get-go. But I was willing to endure their crossover episodes if the crossover was any good. Sounds like I shouldn't bother.

The only thing I would try to sell you on is LoT Season 2, I can totally get why people wouldn't be keen on Season 1 (too much emphasis on the terrible storyline with Vandal Savage and the Hawks) but that is totally gotten rid of in Season 2 which is just straight up great fun like The Flash Season 1.

cisco the disco.

Thanks, Shot

Do I need to see LoT's season 1 to understand what is going on in season 2? Or should I just wiki read their season 1 episodes and leave it at that? I'll give it go. Also, is Supergirl's season 2 better than season 1? I couldn't watch passed its season 1 premier unfortunately - it was just too awful. And going by the Supergirl US thread, it doesn't sound like I missed much on that season either.

Man alive, how I miss what we had in Flash's season 1 and Arrow's seasons 1-2.

Although they have made some improvements in season 2, if you thought season 1 was too awful to even watch, I doubt it's enough to really win you over.

If I recall correctly, LoT gives you a season 1 recap right at the start of Season 2 episode 1, but if not the only thing you would need to know from Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 is that

But yeah I feel now that the show knows how to have fun and just mess around with all the characters without being bogged down by a single character or storyline it's a much more enjoyable affair.

As for Supergirl, I'm not sure as I don't watch it, but I've heard the general consensus is that it's gotten much better since it moved to the CW for Season 2, I may have to check it out now as I thought she was one of the few bright spots of this crossover episode.

Not much so far for being half way through this event.
Supergirl was just a normal episode with a 60 second teaser tacked on the end that wasn't even needed as they showed the scene again on the flash
Flash was a big intro wit them fighting themselves.

As for the whole wally story. Give me strength. The story is crap, the character is crap and the actor is crap. Could really do without him. He spent the season so far whining about not having powers and once he gets them he whines about not being able to use them and how very dare his family not want him rushing head first into an alien invasion. At least barry started off with bank robbers and even he still makes mistakes so imagine what a newbie will do. Just hope that Alchemy makes flashpoint a reality and kills him off at the end of the season for this years death (S1.Eddie, S2.daddy, S3.wally)

re: Wally

way 1 - hey there wally, yes you've got a power but you need to learn how to use it otherwise you risk jumping in half cocked and making matters worse and possibly getting someone killed. Lets try simple things and work up to biggie stuff. <- the right way

way2 - no wally, no.... just NO, NO NONONONONONONONONONONONO, don't use them at all, ever, no nonononononononononononononononono. NO. You're gonna die if you use them. NO!!!!!! <- the tv show way.

(ish)