I am somewhat glad that I'm not the only person left underwhelmed by the crossover episode (yeah, just the one) thus far. Barry travels to Earth 38 (was that it?) to enlist the help of an actual alien to fight ... aliens. At no point did Kara consider that John might be a better candidate? Surely he knows a bit more about other aliens than she does, and he's (arguably) more powerful than Kara.

I get also that there's financing and all that, but it's like Flash focused on the Flash characters with some of the Arrow & Legends cast, Arrow will focus on the Arrow characters (what's the bet we don't see Wally, Joe, Wells or Iris?) and Legends will focus on the Legends (so we probably wont see the missing Arrow characters that were vacant on Flash).

I am stupidly hopeful that there's a complete timeline merge at some point, bringing all the Earth's together (maybe this is what happens that leads Barry to create and send that message in the first place?) but we could have easily had John Jones, Superman, Wild Dog, Ragman, a suited up Wally West, Jay Garrick, Jessie Quick and everyone else on board for this. It could have been a truly epic FOUR way crossover, instead it's a mediocre three way crossover.


I can't be certain, but I'm fairly convinced they messed up a little there, as I seem to remember Firestorm Kid in action, but how could he have been if Firestorm OAP wasn't there?


My thoughts too, though I am getting slightly annoyed with Cisco. The best part about this episode (for me) was Oliver standing by Barry when everyone else turned their backs on him.


Oh, they left him, Guardian and John back on Earth 38 [for reasons unknown]. They were also conveniently missing practically all of Team Arrow, and part of Team Legends; since when did people need to stay behind and watch the ship?


Agreed here.


I got Sara, cause she's got that vendetta against Darhk, and she's been told no. I was surprised at Ray though.


Hah, had to love that. They were shooting at him on the move, so when he stops, they decide to battle him in hand to hand combat rather than just ... shoot him? I don't get the whole concept of Diggle, Thea, Mick, Sara and even Ollie attempting to fight Kara - what's the point? Arrows aren't going to hurt her, nor are bullets, and I'm pretty sure she's resistant to heat and sticks.

So is this two crossovers in a row, where Oliver and Diggle would have been killed by one of their villains, if Wally hadn't raced in and pulled them out? I guess that guy had better aim than Diggle, Canary and Speedy. Maybe they should have recruited him.


Quoted for relevance. I guess they just needed a reason not to include Wally in the Arrow and Legends episodes.


I'll have to disagree on this. I could barely stand Supergirl Season 1 (so much so, that I nearly didn't watch the second Season). I'm glad (very glad) that I gave it a try though; it's much better.


Both Supergirl and Legends have improved vastly in their second seasons.

No way, even Sara didn't deserve to have that rant at him when she has to basically be physically restrained by the rest of the team every time she even sees Darhk. And in fact, last time Darhk appeared didn't she even go so far as to tell him his future just for the sake of gloating? Yeah THAT wouldn't have any consequences on the timeline I'm sure.

My point here is that Sara, like Barry, has lost a loved one that was killed by someone they'd met, and had the chance to stop. Sara telling Darhk that he's one day going to die wasn't exactly a spoiler; she never told him when, where or how.

It was odd/interesting too how much of a minor role she played in this episode. I know it was a Flash episode, but it was almost as though Sara (and the whole of the Legends team for that matter) were extras; they weren't even supporting cast really, that was more Leila, Diggle and Stein.

I still feel it was too rich that any of the Legends, especilly her who can barely contain herself around Darhk, would get pissed and lecture Barry about the timeline.

But yeah, honestly the Legends showing up had only one purpose: Cisco finding that recording of Future Barry to cause a rift in the team. If it wasn't for that little plot point (the worst part of the episode by a good margin), the rest of the Legends' scenes like Stein meeting his daughter, really could have just featured on a normal Legends episode.

Well, I guess we should actually be thankful to Cisco. If he hadn't caused that rift, Ollie and Barry would have been under mind control too, then there would have been no hope for the team, apart from maybe those two left on the ship.

That scene with Stein annoyed me too. His concern was that Clarissa had been replaced by another woman, right? Well, last I checked, Caitlyn wasn't protected from timeline changes, so why didn't Stein just ask her (or anyone else for that matter) "what is the name of my wife again?" and see what she answers, at least then Stein would have not been walking home blind.

Yeah but if Barry and Oliver were put under mind control then we could have had Wally, Captain Steel and Vixen save the day and that... could have been fun?? I still completely hate the direction they're taking Cisco in now, I feel like he's being set up to be the one that leaves and becomes a villain; like Killer Frost but Caitlyn's arc is just a fake-out.

Its a shame that Stein scene was so poorly handled, why did they feel the need to cram that in there? It was so glossed over they really should have saved it for LOT so they could explore it in more detail

I took it not as his wife had changed but he thought he was having or had an affair at some point.

Vixen, [Ciizen] Steel and Wally lack the experience though, they'd have probably been defeated by the combined efforts of everyone else. At least Ollie and Barry (more Ollie) had experience and strategy on their side.


That could have worked too.

I think if you had Ollie and Barry there the outcome wouldn't have been the same.

For starters I doubt Ollie would have had them walking into and unknown Alien HQ in one big welcoming committee that screams "attack us. Easy targets here"
They'd have been split up and covering different areas and so wouldn't have all got hit with th mind control doodah.

Depends on the radius of the mind control wave? Then again, I suppose it's possible Barry is fast enough to have got everyone out of the proximity.

Speaking of speed, that's another thing that's irritated me (at the moment; it may be brought up later), but the Legends team know that they're got a Speedster causing trouble in history, and they know he's not a friendly one. Did none of them think to speak to Barry about this? Maybe even enlist his assistance? I know they can't suddenly bring Barry into the Legends show, but would it have hurt them to at least give a reason, or explanation for that?

I've got a feeling Jay may join The Legends to take down Thawne.

There are rumours he may join the JSA as in the comics he is a founder member.

That would be cool and all, but hasn't he got his own Earth to worry about? Besides, if anyone is likely to take down Thawne (for good, which has proven difficult) it would (should) be Barry.

TBF with time travel he can go back to Earth 3 minutes after he left even if from his POV he was gone years.

Considering his speech to Barry about time travel, he'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

If they're going to have Jay join the JSA, I'd rather wait until Crisis happens, and do it that way.

That was about changing history in this case he wouldn't as he would just be going back to the same point he left.

And while going against the LOD he would be just putting the timeline back to how it should be.


Jay is in next week's episode

Absolutely bloody loved it! So many individually good buts but the team up bit from the promo was great, as were the mind control fight scenes and the CGI was pretty impressive too.

Nothing counts as spoilers once the episode has aired

I shouldn't have expected ANYTHING. But I was hoping for some proper cohesive story, some kick-ass action, and a generally movie-like experience.

The Arrow night left me cold and the rest was a bit of a wet fish.

And Supergirl was barely in it!

So will the crossover be an annual thing then?

If so maybe next year they could all go to Supergirl's Earth this time

& maybe the Big Bad can be these guys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_...ate_of_America

That way Flash, Arrow & Supergirl could get to play evil versions of themselves

Who knows There's a The Flash/Supergirl musical crossover in the second half of the season.

Not a bad mid-season final that one, considering some of the episodes thus far this season have left much to be desired. Presumably the idea of tossing Savitar into the speedforce isn't going to have the desired effect either. It also seems that Future Barry is incapable of not pissing off future speedsters; firstly Eobard, and now Savitar?

Curious too, but in the current timeline, Iris is going to die. That (presumably) means no Bart Allen? Obviously this won't quite come to pass, because time travel shenanigans. Glad we've finally got Kid Flash on the team, though obviously he's got a lot to learn. How much faster is he compared to Barry in the comics? If Savitar feels that Barry is fast enough to challenge him, and Wally appears to be catching up, then surely Wally also poses a threat to Savitar too?

Will further be interesting to see where they go with Julian here too. Is he done being Alchemy? I can't imagine he'll just fall back to being a background character, so I figure he'll either get powers, or he'll somehow go full evil.

There's got to be more to Garrick and what he knows about Savitar too... I wonder whether he's had some sort of interaction with him in the past (or future?)

Another thought; why would a Speedster (Savitar) need to eject blades from his arms to kill people when he is capable of vibrating into someone and killing them that way? What possible reason do ejected blades serve to a speedster? Still not getting the suit either; it's implied (if not stated directly) that Savitar is/was a person, yet the suit really does imply otherwise. It's too mechanical, and whilst humanoid, doesn't quite look like a human would be within.

Decent episode I suppose.

- I liked that they brought Tom Felton into the Flash Team despite knowing he's Alchemy, that felt like a nice plot point.

- That CGI scene where Savitar is running around with Jay and throwing him about was hot garbage.

- I really, really grow weary of Wally, Joe and Iris' constant back-and-forth flip flopping emotions so it was nice that Wells seems to have put a stop to that once and for all by convincing Joe to let Wally do his thing.

- THANK GOD we're no longer in "Cisco With A Grudge" territory... for now...?

- Seeing the 90s' Flash and Trickster share the same scene even if only for a minute was a great touch.

- Iris' death much like Laurel's in Arrow seems to have been dropped early and. in much the same way as Laurel's. I imagine won't be prevented.

- So according to Savitar one member of Team Flash dies (Iris?), one member of Team Flash betrays the rest of the team (either Tom Felton, Cisco or an unwitting Wells), and one member of Team Flash suffers a fate worse than death (Barry, and I think because...)


- Conspiracy Theory time; Future Barry = Savitar. I think this because:
a) Savitar knows EVERYTHING about the team, including the fact that Wells is "fake" (not from their Earth) but Savitar isn't some all seeing all knowing entity so surely he'd have had to have experienced these events before from another perspective.

b) Barry is constantly pushing himself to get faster and faster so surely it'd stand to reason that in the future he'd be so fast it'd seem like he could teleport; just like Savitar.

c) In Legends of Tomorrow, Stein and Jax discover a tape recording from Barry saying that Barry altered the timeline and as such they couldn't trust anyone; not even Barry himself.

d) Why would Alchemy and Savitar have any cause to be involved in any of this? Savitar isn't Zoom or Reverse Flash, he's not out to take Barry's speed. So why get Alchemy to try and recreate Flashpoint?

e) Barry would need a motivation to become Savitar of course but if Iris really does die as a direct result of him meddling with the timeline then that probably pushes him over the edge with grief.

f) The Flash comic Out of Time basically covers all of these plot points as Future Flash travels back in time to kill his past self in order to restore the speed force, so perhaps this season is a loose adaptation of that.

g) The suit. The suit is HIGHLY mechanical which would obviously hint at future equipment, but even then, it still seems like the kind of thing that only someone that had access to Star Labs would be able to create...

I don't think this will stick. As mentioned above, Bart Allen is an integral part of Flash, and without Iris, there is no Bart. She may be killed, but I have no doubt that Barry will once again change (or attempt to change) the timeline to restore her life. Maybe in doing so, creates the Crisis Event?


Savitar is from (a) future, just as Eobard is. Change the past, the future changes too, so whilst it's possible that these events of his will happen, they're not a guarantee.

Iris being the one to die is a given, but she'll be restored.
Cisco will (likely) be the one to betray the team, likely for the return of his brother. I was going to say Caitlyn, but that's already been teased too much, and is too obvious. Then again, Alchemy was too obvious too, and we know how that turned out!
Barry, as stated, will be the one to suffer said fate; cause he'll have to live without Iris.


All Savitar needs is a history lesson. In (his) future, it may be public knowledge that a Wells from a different Earth helped the team.


Plausible. That could be said for any speedster though.


I took that message as more generic, in the sense that events of the timeline have changed, so (a) Barry they encounter in their travels may not be the same one they know at the moment.


Was it not implied that Savitar wants an army of metas? His beef with Barry seems to stem from Barry being capable of getting in the way of his grand plan.


Whilst he doesn't exist(?) in this show, Batman has developed a good number of suits without Star Labs. Granted they aren't as advanced as Savitar, but then he is from the future, and in the future, such tech may be widely available. Still don't get why he'd need a suit though.


Also, somewhat unrelated, but Barry stated he's never travelled into the future before; only that he's gone into the past, and back to the present (back to the future?) why can't he just push on a little further? What's stopping Barry running into the future to see what goes wrong? Heck, why can't he just hop on the Wave Rider and catch a ride?

The conversation he had with them can also be interpreted 2 ways if you remove the comma's :

"I am the future, Flash." - "I am the future Flash."

"You did this to me. You trapped me in eternity, your future self, you did this to me, Barry." - "You did this to me. You trapped me in eternity your future self you did this to me Barry."

I think there's a lot of straw clutching here.....

Didn't some people speculate that Zoom was a version of Barry at some point too? Savitar will be Savitar, not Barry. Savitar is a character that exists in the comics, similarly to Flash, Kid Flash, Reverse Flash, Zoom (though his entire attire and backstory were changed(?)), Jay Garrick, the Rival and now Savitar.

Edit: Speaking of the Rival, surely that's not the last we've seen of him? Seems incredibly lame if that's it; so much potential wasted, in addition to an awful suit. Savitar killed him because he (the Rival) failed to kill Barry, yet Barry only got the attention of Savitar because he was deemed worthy(?). I'm not quite understanding why Savitar would have allowed the Rival to make an attempt on Barry's life, when it is Savitar that wants to fight and defeat him. Seemingly a wasted character in the Rival if you ask me.