Ok, the first part of your post I get where you're coming from.

The part I've highlighted I still disagree with as that is a matter of opinion which I don't share. I think as I said previous post that the 50th was a letdown and I think it could and should have been better.

That's just my opinion, I don't state that as fact. I personally think all the other stuff that surrounding this special, the Adventure In Space and Time, the Big Documentary, the 5 Doctors Reboot, all all the other stuff, just seemed a more appropriate celebration.

Again, just my opinion.

He probably did for all we know, but RTD would have refused. He simply doesn't want to do Doctor Who anymore since leaving, and the only reason we even had any specials for 2009 was as a compromise for the BBC's insistance, because he never intended to do a fifth series.. At most, he wrote for the Eleventh Doctor in the Death of the Doctor storyline for SJA, but I don't think his heart was in it.

As someone said earlier in this thread, RTD was asked and he declined, saying he'd feel like the ghost at the wedding.

Apparently doctor blue box's anti SM rhetoric got the better of him, conveniently forgetting what is known.

Its proof enough that it wasn't his greatest secret, that is the issue for me, not another Doctor. But the fact they went along that line for Hurt.

And randomly turning the Doctor into an alien who regenerates was also silly. So was getting rid of the Timelords in an unseen war to leave the Doctor the sole one wandering around Time and Space...

Or is it only silly if Moff wants to add something to the mythos of the Doctor and his life?

As for the Zygon ending - the whole point (and was pretty much the whole point of the Zygon Two-parter) was that it was intentionally left ambiguous. You can't wage a war on one ise or the other if you're unsure who is who.

Of course introducing regeneration wasn't silly, it allowed the programme to continue. What a bizarre comment.

Moffat changed the mythos, or simply put his mark on something which had already been done. Not creating something new. That is the issue.

And the Zygon two parter was literally filler, the story had no substance, there would be something about Zygons maybe every 10 minutes, and the story ended so suddenly. It was filler to what was happening with The Doctor's.

I don't mind the idea of a 'missing' incarnation.

I always thought (long before Day of the Doctor) that would have been an interesting twist if the Valeyard had been revealed as a forgotten past incarnation rather than a future one (somewhere between 2 and 3).

I guess my frustration with the 'War Doctor' is, as others have mentioned, that it feels unnecessary and more about Steven Moffat trying to put his own mark on Doctor Who's history. It feels like it's more about Moffat than the show.

We now have a missing incarnation (John Hurt), a different explanation for why the Doctor first fled Gallifrey (the hybrid), a new version of events showing why he picked which TARDIS to steal (one of the Claras) and a Doctor who is now at least twice as old as he was when the show started, if not several billion years old (depending on whether or not you pay any attention to Heaven Sent).

It just feels as though the show's continuity is changed too easily nowadays and I guess that makes great events seem less important.

I guess it depends on what you see as "putting their own mark" on the show as opposed to just trying to tell a story. It doesn't seem any different to me than Robert Holmes reinventing the Time Lords, RTD writing in the Time War that killed them all off, the Master being created as somebody the Doctor grew up with, etc.

And the sound of drums in his/her head. Delgado always seemed too delightfully urbane for that to fit, even though it would explain some of his stupid "Ooh, I haven't thought it through" plans! (love Delgado.) Ainley's incarnation mind......barking. The drums must've been particularly loud circa 'Time-Flight'....

Clearly you didn't get my point - the show's creators have been adding their stamp to Doctor Who from the very beginning.

And clearly, you missed the sarcasm.

He literally created a new type of Doctor. Which changed the mythos of the show. Just like others have done before, and those to come will carry on.

I think you're mixing the Zygon stuff up. The Zygon two-parter I was referring to was in series 9. Not the Zygon story itself in the special - which I agree was very much filler. But in my mind, enjoyable filler.

I forgot about that one, but true. Just part of writing for a show that's half a century old, I think. Some writers will want to twiggle things here and there. The same happens for characters like Sherlock Holmes, Superman, etc. Doctor Who just has the monumentous task of trying to keep it all in the same continuity.

Clearly to both.

I don't personally feel RTD killing off the Time Lords as part of the 2005 relaunch of the show is the same as Moffat changing the Doctor's personal history since 2010.

It's really, really simple. If you happen to like the mythos change introduced by showrunner X or showrunner Y, it's OK. If you don't like the change in mythos, then it's not OK.

For some people of course, it's apparently the other way round.

I don't think RTD changed the 'mythos' by killing off the Time Lords. He simply created a new situation for the Doctor.

By comparison, Moffat actively altered the mythos by changing the Doctor Who story at it's source - the reason he left Gallifrey, the reason he chose that TARDIS to steal.

I do personally think the two are different.

I don't pay any attention to any of that. I just pretend none of it ever happened.

And I think, Granny McSmith, that overall it will be forgotten. I don't think they are changes that are going to stick. I hope not anyway.

It depends how you see it. Killing off all the Time Lords seems like a much bigger deal to me, as opposed to adding a missing incarnation which hardly affected the overall status quo at all. It was only three regenerations back at the time, too, but it did provide more perspective as to where those incarnations were coming from and why they were who they were.

Well, who knows what Chibbers will come up with, but am sure Moffat will be fine with it after he's moved on, as I suspect RTD was with the whole Time War stuff.

I know Robert Holmes got a bit of stick from fans regarding his perception of the Timelords and his portrayal of them in The Deadly Assassin which seemed to go against the whole Mythos of the Timelords as depicted in Troughton's swansong.(although he started going from 'God-like awe' as depicted in The War Games to 'pompous arses' as early as 'Terror of the Autons' with that bowler hatted git who appears at the start!)

Of course it's whatever floats yer boat, but I was personally fine with the events of the 50th. It's cano.....um, the 'C' word, but yeah thing can change in the future. In fairness, Moffat's said that himself.

I have got a consignment of Memory Worms knocking about though....5000 Grotzits and they're yours. (Plus P & P)

Hmm, I didn't know that. Still a shame he felt that way. For all the RTD vs Moffat stuff I feel a colloboration between the two on a story could have been something extra special even to what we got.


That doesn't mean it was poorly written. He had about 3 photo's of the 9th doctor in different places, which in the doctors life could have happened in the last 3 days since he regenerated. Even if it had been longer than that, it still takes the doctor some time to get used to his new face. The 12th doctor was remarking about the new face well into series 8 for example.


I agree. For something to feel 'real' it has to be natural, not shoehorned into the backstory for the singular purpose of making one episode or another feel slightly more interesting just at the time. Can't really see the war doctor, or Moffat's supposed new reason for the doctor fleeing gallifrey getting mentioned after he is gone.