Pebble (national roaming sim) experience

DavidGover · 24-08-2016, 21:28

Hi all,

I recently got hold of a Pebble national roaming sim card and thought I would make a post about my experience with it.

Further investigation revealed that the Pebble service is based on the Chameleon EU sim from Manx Telecom. The SIM I received has a number from a 'Three' allocation but appears to prefer O2 as the home network. I currently have the £34.99 Pay Monthly.

Cannot Force National Roaming

The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three.

Presentation number

After reading a thread on here from the director of Pebble, I asked CS about having my everyday mobile number as a presentation number for calls and texts made from my Pebble sim. They told me this can be arranged and to email their network ops team with the details and proof that I "own" the number. I am currently waiting for this to be implemented.

Rates to Greece

One of the countries I call is Greece. I note from their web site that calls to the EU (plus some other countries totalling 60 in all) are charged at the standard rate. I found this was not the case and I was charged 5p (unit cost on the £34.99 Pay Monthly plan should be 3.5p) for a call to a landline and 8p for a call to a mobile. I contacted CS about this and they refunded the charges and fixed the tariff. I have not tested whether other European countries are correctly charged.

Calling Service Numbers

At first it would seem you cannot call any number beginning with 08 from the sim. Depending on the number called you will either get endless ringing or one of a few error messages. I did find after a while that if you prefix the number with +44, e.g +44 870 123 4567 then the call will connect.

Their web site for PAYG says that when calling service numbers (numbers beginning with 08) you will pay a 5p access charge plus the service charge for the number, however the service charge will be immediately refunded. For Pay Monthly it says that calls to service numbers will not cost more than your standard tariff. In my real world test with a Pay Monthly sim, I found that I was charged 18p for a call to an 0870 number which has a 13p service charge but the service charge was not refunded. I have in effect paid considerably more than my standard tariff. I have yet to ask their CS about this.

General

Calls and texts to 01, 02, 03 and mobile numbers appear to work and be charged as expected. I have not tried numbers in either the Channel Islands or Isle of Man (e.g 07924, 07939, 07781 etc). 070, 118 and 09 numbers are not available as stated on the Pebble web site.

Data speeds for me were around 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up. This is about normal on O2 3G in my experience. I was assigned an IP from Manx Telecom.

I have not yet tried EU roaming with this sim, that will come next month.

Dave

clewsy · 24-08-2016, 22:42

So all in all not going that well...

swb1964 · 25-08-2016, 08:31

Not a great start, but have you really had chance to test the UK roaming feature at all? Have you been anywhere with no o2 coverage?

DavidGover · 25-08-2016, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

So all in all not going that well...

It definitely could have been better. On the other hand their live chat was quick to respond, understood the problems and implemented fixes or explained what would happen next.

DavidGover · 25-08-2016, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by swb1964

Not a great start, but have you really had chance to test the UK roaming feature at all? Have you been anywhere with no o2 coverage?

Not yet, though I do have a testing spot in mind.

tdenson · 25-08-2016, 14:11

Seems more trouble than it's worth to me

DavidGover · 25-08-2016, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

Seems more trouble than it's worth to me

At the moment I'm inclined to agree. The premise is a good one, a sim with national roaming and uniform charges throughout the EU. There are too many glitches though and the price could be a bit better.

I can confirm they have now set my everyday mobile number as the presentation number for calls and texts. They also fixed the problem with calling service numbers.

I suspect they have very few customers or else some of the problems I've encountered would have been fixed long ago!

Orbitalzone · 25-08-2016, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

At the moment I'm inclined to agree. The premise is a good one, a sim with national roaming and uniform charges throughout the EU. There are too many glitches though and the price could be a bit better.

I can confirm they have now set my everyday mobile number as the presentation number for calls and texts. They also fixed the problem with calling service numbers.

I suspect they have very few customers or else some of the problems I've encountered would have been fixed long ago!

Are you customer account number 10001 by any chance?

DavidGover · 25-08-2016, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

Are you customer account number 10001 by any chance?

Possibly! They are clearly very small. I doubt Anywhere Sim is any bigger. The only national roaming sim I'm aware of with any half decent sized company behind it is Jump from 24seven.

DavidGover · 26-08-2016, 22:50

I've decided to cut my losses and cancel my Pebble sim. There have just been too many issues, especially with billing and I do not feel confident going forward.

The latest thing is that data usage doesn't seem to be billed in real-time. To date I have yet to see any charges applied for data usage, though I did receive an unexpected text telling me I have £1.07 of data charges pending billing. I suppose this means it would be possible to go over the standard plan charge if you are a heavy user, or perhaps the overage charges would be applied to the next months bill. Who knows!

I also found that a number I called during the course of testing was barred due to it being a call-through service. They appear to have googled the number and found the web site it is from (http://www.amigodial.co.uk) and barred every number listed on the site. Considering I only made a call lasting a few seconds, this is quite a customer unfriendly approach, especially as I have been unable to find what the call charges are to call a country outside of the 60 they list as "inclusive". The message when calling the numbers clearly states "This number is barred. It is either a premium rate number or a call-through service. These services are barred from the Pebble network".

So in summary, a nice idea though fairly expensive and with some glitches requiring you to keep a sharp eye on billing (no itemised statement is available), which appears to be quite erratic.

David_bl1 · 28-08-2016, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

Cannot Force National Roaming

The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three.

This sounds wrong. My employer uses multi-network roaming SIMs extensively and while they have all have a "preferred" network (usually defined in the CPOL list on the SIM), if you manually select an alternative network then it will connect.

We have found that some multi-network roaming SIMs don't actually allow you to connect to all the networks in a particular country, depending on what roaming agreements are in place, because the SIM card provider is charged different rates by the different operators. For example one of our multi-network SIMs cannot connect to Three in the UK because they charge the roaming SIM operator significantly more.

rightonpard · 28-08-2016, 18:08

I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble.

I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service.

So, I decided this needed looking into, addressing and responding personally.

Declaration: I am the company director of Pebble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

Cannot Force National Roaming

The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three.

This doesn't work because it is not the way our services are intended to be used.

Forcing a manual attachment to another network (where you already have a signal from our preferred network partner) is expressly forbidden by the terms of service.

...just as say, Three would suspend your services for forcing a manual connection to the 'Orange' network or using your SIM in a 2G only handset effectively forcing the same.

As explained by our CS, in the event you find yourself without coverage from our preferred network partner the SIM will automatically attach to any other available network.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

Presentation number

After reading a thread on here from the director of Pebble, I asked CS about having my everyday mobile number as a presentation number for calls and texts made from my Pebble sim. They told me this can be arranged and to email their network ops team with the details and proof that I "own" the number. I am currently waiting for this to be implemented.

This was implemented upon your request to our live chat team within the provided timescale. I can't think of any other UK mobile network currently providing this service, certainly not free of charge at least... whereas we have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

Rates to Greece

One of the countries I call is Greece. I note from their web site that calls to the EU (plus some other countries totalling 60 in all) are charged at the standard rate. I found this was not the case and I was charged 5p (unit cost on the £34.99 Pay Monthly plan should be 3.5p) for a call to a landline and 8p for a call to a mobile. I contacted CS about this and they refunded the charges and fixed the tariff. I have not tested whether other European countries are correctly charged.

There was a billing error that did mean you were overcharged for calling Greece and for this I do apologise. This was promptly rectified and the entire cost of the calls was refunded immediately (not just the overcharged amount) by way of apology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

Calling Service Numbers

At first it would seem you cannot call any number beginning with 08 from the sim. Depending on the number called you will either get endless ringing or one of a few error messages. I did find after a while that if you prefix the number with +44, e.g +44 870 123 4567 then the call will connect.

Their web site for PAYG says that when calling service numbers (numbers beginning with 08) you will pay a 5p access charge plus the service charge for the number, however the service charge will be immediately refunded. For Pay Monthly it says that calls to service numbers will not cost more than your standard tariff. In my real world test with a Pay Monthly sim, I found that I was charged 18p for a call to an 0870 number which has a 13p service charge but the service charge was not refunded. I have in effect paid considerably more than my standard tariff. I have yet to ask their CS about this.

It would appear the only 084/087 service numbers you have attempted to call are for calling card or call-through services. This, again, is expressly forbidden under the terms & conditions of service.

When a number is identified as offering an onward calling service it is barred.

It appears the reason you were charged for calling some of these numbers (rather than being told they were barred) is because you managed to circumvent the barring by dialling them using the international prefix (as you have noted above) - nonetheless, again, our CS refunded these charges for you in full.

Barring (or charging extra for) access to calling card and call-through services is standard practice for mobile networks.

This isn't the first time you've had this problem either I've noticed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

I've got a billing dispute with Vodafone. They are jokers.

I've had a Vodafone account active since February, at which point I also added a bundle for 300 minutes to 08 numbers. On my recent bill, I have been charged over £30 for calls to an 0870 number, even though the summary clearly shows that I have only used 205 out of the 300 minutes. In all, I was billed for 66 minutes of "out of bundle" usage for such calls.

When I first approached Vodafone about the problem, they said they would contact their "leakage" team to get them to refund. What I didn't expect was for the "leakage" team to refuse to refund the charges, as the 0870 number in question is a call-through number. They are now claiming that the charge levied for the call to the 0870 number is in fact a charge for the onward call to the final destination.

I've now sent a written complaint (via Special Delivery) so they can't pretend not to get it. I've also promised that the case will go to the Ombudsman if it's not resolved to my satisfaction (including a good will gesture).

I really very very strongly advise people to steer clear of Vodafone at the moment. If you're already with them, then check your bills carefully.

I further note it appears you have now continued to attempt to bypass the restriction on calling premium rate numbers by making calls to International premium rate numbers in Estonia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

General

Calls and texts to 01, 02, 03 and mobile numbers appear to work and be charged as expected. I have not tried numbers in either the Channel Islands or Isle of Man (e.g 07924, 07939, 07781 etc). 070, 118 and 09 numbers are not available as stated on the Pebble web site.

Data speeds for me were around 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up. This is about normal on O2 3G in my experience. I was assigned an IP from Manx Telecom.

I have not yet tried EU roaming with this sim, that will come next month.

As you say, if you are using the services as they are intended, for making calls, sending text messages and using data (as opposed to attempting to circumvent network controls or flout the terms & conditions) - everything works just as it should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

The latest thing is that data usage doesn't seem to be billed in real-time. To date I have yet to see any charges applied for data usage, though I did receive an unexpected text telling me I have £1.07 of data charges pending billing. I suppose this means it would be possible to go over the standard plan charge if you are a heavy user, or perhaps the overage charges would be applied to the next months bill. Who knows!

Data usage is only charged for/deducted from your balance when confirmation is received from the roamed network of the final amount (usually within 24hrs) - but reserves your balance/allowance in real-time. Much like your bank account has a 'balance' and an 'available balance'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

I've decided to cut my losses and cancel my Pebble sim. There have just been too many issues, especially with billing and I do not feel confident going forward.

Do you mean to say you've discovered that you are not going to be able to abuse the service by using all 1000 inclusive minutes (sold at an eqv 3.5ppm) to call 13p 087 callthrough numbers and international premium rate numbers?

*Chat log removed by Moderator*

Aye Up · 28-08-2016, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightonpard

I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble.

I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service.

So, I decided this needed looking into, addressing and responding personally.

Declaration: I am the company director of Pebble.

I really really do suggest you remove the chat transcript as you will be breaking DPA amongst other stuff.

Gigabit · 28-08-2016, 18:57

As above.

DavidGover · 28-08-2016, 19:09

I have to agree with Gigabit and Aye Up. Somebody who runs their own business should know better.

DavidGover · 28-08-2016, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightonpard

I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble.

There is nothing supposed about it. Everything I have posted is factual.

Quote:

I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service.

I didn't get an opportunity to test the coverage claim but I can say that the customer service was good.

Quote:

This doesn't work because it is not the way our services are intended to be used.

Forcing a manual attachment to another network (where you already have a signal from our preferred network partner) is expressly forbidden by the terms of service.

That may be but it's only logical that I would want to verify the functionality of the sim before being stuck in a no signal situation.

Quote:

This was implemented upon your request to our live chat team within the provided timescale. I can't think of any other UK mobile network currently providing this service, certainly not free of charge at least... whereas we have.

Agreed.

Quote:

There was a billing error that did mean you were overcharged for calling Greece and for this I do apologise. This was promptly rectified and the entire cost of the calls was refunded immediately (not just the overcharged amount) by way of apology.

Agreed.

Quote:

It would appear the only 084/087 service numbers you have attempted to call are for calling card or call-through services. This, again, is expressly forbidden under the terms & conditions of service.

I didn't only call call-through services and I know you know that. Of course you don't mention that I only made ~ 10 minutes of calls to 087 numbers in total as that doesn't suit your agenda.

Quote:

When a number is identified as offering an onward calling service it is barred.

You should probably check out Ofcom GC23 which doesn't actually allow arbitrary blocking of destination numbers anywhere in the EU. To be fair though, all the networks appear to do as such and Ofcom are spineless.

Quote:

It appears the reason you were charged for calling some of these numbers (rather than being told they were barred) is because you managed to circumvent the barring by dialling them using the international prefix (as you have noted above) - nonetheless, again, our CS refunded these charges for you in full.

I did not circumvent any barring. In fact, it was impossible to dial any 084/087 number when I first received the sim. I then wondered if there was a problem with your dial plan so I tried the +44 prefix, which worked. There was no circumvention involved.

Quote:

Barring (or charging extra for) access to calling card and call-through services is standard practice for mobile networks.

Not standard practice at all. A few such services have been barred by a few networks in the past but the vast majority are useable from all networks.

Quote:

This isn't the first time you've had this problem either I've noticed...

Yes, I had a dispute with Vodafone over them attempting to charge me for calling 087 numbers even though I had an allowance to do so. There are many and varied legitimate reasons for calling an 087 number. In the end Vodafone refunded the charges, apologised and made a good-will gesture. The numbers I called are also still able to be dialled from Vodafone.

Quote:

I further note it appears you have now continued to attempt to bypass the restriction on calling premium rate numbers by making calls to International premium rate numbers in Estonia.

I was curious whether your incorrect billing of calls to Greece was a one off or if it was repeated elsewhere. It turns out it IS repeated. Anybody using or thinking of using your service should be careful of your claim of 'inclusive international calls'.

Quote:

As you say, if you are using the services as they are intended, for making calls, sending text messages and using data (as opposed to attempting to circumvent network controls or flout the terms & conditions) - everything works just as it should.

Well here's the thing. I spend most of my time in rural Dorset. You may or may not know that coverage there on any network is sporadic. That was my main motivating factor for trying a national roaming sim as I have had coverage issues with all the networks in the past. I also liked the idea of paying the same rate whether I was calling from or to the UK, Spain or Greece. As a bonus, should I need to make any calls to 08 numbers (e.g I recently had reason to call E2Save, which I initially tried from Pebble and it FAILED) then the idea of not having to worry too much about the cost was attractive, even if the sim was fairly high priced.

Quote:

Data usage is only charged for/deducted from your balance when confirmation is received from the roamed network of the final amount (usually within 24hrs) - but reserves your balance/allowance in real-time. Much like your bank account has a 'balance' and an 'available balance'.

That may be so but at least with the bank I can see my balance and available balance. This does not appear to be possible with Pebble.

Quote:

Do you mean to say you've discovered that you are not going to be able to abuse the service by using all 1000 inclusive minutes (sold at an eqv 3.5ppm) to call 13p 087 callthrough numbers and international premium rate numbers?

If you consider calling 08 numbers to be abuse, then I suggest you remove them from the bundle and/or charge extra for them. Plenty of people use international call-through services and have done since the beginning of the last decade.

Regarding posting chat transcripts, you've just shown potential customers of your service that their communications with your employees will not remain private. I'd say that's a rather big mistake on your part.

Dave

petef · 28-08-2016, 19:28

I have chosen not to read the live chat. I agree with the others that it should be deleted from public display.

--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/

lightspeed2398 · 28-08-2016, 19:29

This thread is clearly a bit of a minefield. I have no desire to wade into the actual details of the situation itself as this is clearly a private dispute but I would like to say that the company itself paints itself as a very sketchy by posting the chat log like that, despite the attempt to obscure sensitive elements of it. Agree with everyone else that this could potentially be in breach of the DPA, even if it isn't it's not the level of service that I would expect.

Perhaps I'm being old but surely a dispute like this should be resolved in private with discretion and politeness from all sides, clearly this isn't going to get solved by arguing in public. Would suggest this thread is locked/closed/deleted.

DavidGover · 28-08-2016, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

I would like to say that the company itself paints itself as a very sketchy by posting the chat log like that, despite the attempt to obscure sensitive elements of it. Agree with everyone else that this could potentially be in breach of the DPA, even if it isn't it's not the level of service that I would expect.

I doubt there is anybody who would think that it's ok to post a chat log like that. There is an expectation of privacy.

Quote:

Perhaps I'm being old but surely a dispute like this should be resolved in private with discretion and politeness from all sides, clearly this isn't going to get solved by arguing in public. Would suggest this thread is locked/closed/deleted.

The thread didn't start as a dispute, I just gave my totally 100% honest opinion of my brief encounter with Pebble. i will be somewhere between £35-£70 out of pocket from giving Pebble a try but I'm not complaining. I knew it might not be the perfect solution it tries to paint itself as.

Then along comes a company director who doesn't like anything negative being said about his product. That is to be expected but he has then gone on to make accusations and post what was expected to be a private chat transcript.

This thread should definitely not be deleted as others should see what they can expect if they sign up to Pebble, both from the quality of the service and the potential lack of respect of their privacy by it's director.

rightonpard · 28-08-2016, 19:47

The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary.

lightspeed2398 · 28-08-2016, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGover

I doubt there is anybody who would think that it's ok to post a chat log like that. There is an expectation of privacy.

The thread didn't start as a dispute, I just gave my totally 100% honest opinion of my brief encounter with Pebble. i will be somewhere between £35-£70 out of pocket from giving Pebble a try but I'm not complaining. I knew it might not be the perfect solution it tries to paint itself as.

Then along comes a company director who doesn't like anything negative being said about his product. That is to be expected but he has then gone on to make accusations and post what was expected to be a private chat transcript.

This thread should definitely not be deleted as others should see what they can expect if they sign up to Pebble, both from the quality of the service and the potential lack of respect of their privacy by it's director.

Completely agree about the expectation of privacy.

Agree that it didn't start as a dispute and maybe deleting it would be too far thinking now. I do think though that this back and forth between yourself and the director isn't the way to now solve this issue.

If he claims to want to offer the best service in the country I would suggest that he uses your details that he has clearly accessed to give you a ring and then you can post your experience following that.

lightspeed2398 · 28-08-2016, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightonpard

The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary.

Think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want it there? Might as well delete it now.....

petef · 28-08-2016, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightonpard

The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary.

If David Gover gives his permission then I shall read it. But the point is that it should not have been made public up front.

--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/

DavidGover · 28-08-2016, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightonpard

The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary.

Delete it. Immediately. Please. I shouldn't even need to ask.

DavidGover · 28-08-2016, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by petef

If David Gover gives his permission then I shall read it. But the point is that it should not have been made public up front.

--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/

I haven't even read it myself as posted, so I have no idea if it's a true representation of my communications with Pebble!

24-08-2016, 21:28	#1
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Pebble (national roaming sim) experience Hi all, I recently got hold of a Pebble national roaming sim card and thought I would make a post about my experience with it. Further investigation revealed that the Pebble service is based on the Chameleon EU sim from Manx Telecom. The SIM I received has a number from a 'Three' allocation but appears to prefer O2 as the home network. I currently have the £34.99 Pay Monthly. Cannot Force National Roaming The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three. Presentation number After reading a thread on here from the director of Pebble, I asked CS about having my everyday mobile number as a presentation number for calls and texts made from my Pebble sim. They told me this can be arranged and to email their network ops team with the details and proof that I "own" the number. I am currently waiting for this to be implemented. Rates to Greece One of the countries I call is Greece. I note from their web site that calls to the EU (plus some other countries totalling 60 in all) are charged at the standard rate. I found this was not the case and I was charged 5p (unit cost on the £34.99 Pay Monthly plan should be 3.5p) for a call to a landline and 8p for a call to a mobile. I contacted CS about this and they refunded the charges and fixed the tariff. I have not tested whether other European countries are correctly charged. Calling Service Numbers At first it would seem you cannot call any number beginning with 08 from the sim. Depending on the number called you will either get endless ringing or one of a few error messages. I did find after a while that if you prefix the number with +44, e.g +44 870 123 4567 then the call will connect. Their web site for PAYG says that when calling service numbers (numbers beginning with 08) you will pay a 5p access charge plus the service charge for the number, however the service charge will be immediately refunded. For Pay Monthly it says that calls to service numbers will not cost more than your standard tariff. In my real world test with a Pay Monthly sim, I found that I was charged 18p for a call to an 0870 number which has a 13p service charge but the service charge was not refunded. I have in effect paid considerably more than my standard tariff. I have yet to ask their CS about this. General Calls and texts to 01, 02, 03 and mobile numbers appear to work and be charged as expected. I have not tried numbers in either the Channel Islands or Isle of Man (e.g 07924, 07939, 07781 etc). 070, 118 and 09 numbers are not available as stated on the Pebble web site. Data speeds for me were around 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up. This is about normal on O2 3G in my experience. I was assigned an IP from Manx Telecom. I have not yet tried EU roaming with this sim, that will come next month. Dave

24-08-2016, 22:42	#2
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	So all in all not going that well...

25-08-2016, 08:31	#3
swb1964 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,455	Not a great start, but have you really had chance to test the UK roaming feature at all? Have you been anywhere with no o2 coverage?

25-08-2016, 09:41	#4
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy So all in all not going that well... It definitely could have been better. On the other hand their live chat was quick to respond, understood the problems and implemented fixes or explained what would happen next.

25-08-2016, 09:43	#5
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by swb1964 Not a great start, but have you really had chance to test the UK roaming feature at all? Have you been anywhere with no o2 coverage? Not yet, though I do have a testing spot in mind.

25-08-2016, 14:11	#6
tdenson Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,214	Seems more trouble than it's worth to me

25-08-2016, 14:16	#7
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by tdenson Seems more trouble than it's worth to me At the moment I'm inclined to agree. The premise is a good one, a sim with national roaming and uniform charges throughout the EU. There are too many glitches though and the price could be a bit better. I can confirm they have now set my everyday mobile number as the presentation number for calls and texts. They also fixed the problem with calling service numbers. I suspect they have very few customers or else some of the problems I've encountered would have been fixed long ago!

25-08-2016, 21:46	#8
Orbitalzone Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sussex Posts: 12,173	Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover At the moment I'm inclined to agree. The premise is a good one, a sim with national roaming and uniform charges throughout the EU. There are too many glitches though and the price could be a bit better. I can confirm they have now set my everyday mobile number as the presentation number for calls and texts. They also fixed the problem with calling service numbers. I suspect they have very few customers or else some of the problems I've encountered would have been fixed long ago! Are you customer account number 10001 by any chance?

25-08-2016, 21:53	#9
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by Orbitalzone Are you customer account number 10001 by any chance? Possibly! They are clearly very small. I doubt Anywhere Sim is any bigger. The only national roaming sim I'm aware of with any half decent sized company behind it is Jump from 24seven.

26-08-2016, 22:50	#10
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	I've decided to cut my losses and cancel my Pebble sim. There have just been too many issues, especially with billing and I do not feel confident going forward. The latest thing is that data usage doesn't seem to be billed in real-time. To date I have yet to see any charges applied for data usage, though I did receive an unexpected text telling me I have £1.07 of data charges pending billing. I suppose this means it would be possible to go over the standard plan charge if you are a heavy user, or perhaps the overage charges would be applied to the next months bill. Who knows! I also found that a number I called during the course of testing was barred due to it being a call-through service. They appear to have googled the number and found the web site it is from (http://www.amigodial.co.uk) and barred every number listed on the site. Considering I only made a call lasting a few seconds, this is quite a customer unfriendly approach, especially as I have been unable to find what the call charges are to call a country outside of the 60 they list as "inclusive". The message when calling the numbers clearly states "This number is barred. It is either a premium rate number or a call-through service. These services are barred from the Pebble network". So in summary, a nice idea though fairly expensive and with some glitches requiring you to keep a sharp eye on billing (no itemised statement is available), which appears to be quite erratic.

28-08-2016, 13:27	#11
David_bl1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 118	Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover Cannot Force National Roaming The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three. This sounds wrong. My employer uses multi-network roaming SIMs extensively and while they have all have a "preferred" network (usually defined in the CPOL list on the SIM), if you manually select an alternative network then it will connect. We have found that some multi-network roaming SIMs don't actually allow you to connect to all the networks in a particular country, depending on what roaming agreements are in place, because the SIM card provider is charged different rates by the different operators. For example one of our multi-network SIMs cannot connect to Three in the UK because they charge the roaming SIM operator significantly more.

28-08-2016, 18:08	#12
rightonpard Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: North Wales & Cornwall Posts: 144	I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble. I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service. So, I decided this needed looking into, addressing and responding personally. Declaration: I am the company director of *Pebble. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover Cannot Force National Roaming* The first thing I noticed is that I could not get the sim to sign on to any network except O2, which I thought was quite odd behaviour for a national roaming sim. When I contacted their CS I was told that the technology is quite clever and will only roam onto other networks when there is no signal from the preferred roaming partner. I'm not sure what would happen in the case you have a very weak barely usable signal from O2 but a strong signal from Vodafone, EE or Three. This doesn't work because it is not the way our services are intended to be used. Forcing a manual attachment to another network (where you already have a signal from our preferred network partner) is expressly forbidden by the terms of service. ...just as say, Three would suspend your services for forcing a manual connection to the 'Orange' network or using your SIM in a 2G only handset effectively forcing the same. As explained by our CS, in the event you find yourself without coverage from our preferred network partner the SIM will automatically attach to any other available network. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover Presentation number After reading a thread on here from the director of Pebble, I asked CS about having my everyday mobile number as a presentation number for calls and texts made from my Pebble sim. They told me this can be arranged and to email their network ops team with the details and proof that I "own" the number. I am currently waiting for this to be implemented. This was implemented upon your request to our live chat team within the provided timescale. I can't think of any other UK mobile network currently providing this service, certainly not free of charge at least... whereas we have. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover Rates to Greece One of the countries I call is Greece. I note from their web site that calls to the EU (plus some other countries totalling 60 in all) are charged at the standard rate. I found this was not the case and I was charged 5p (unit cost on the £34.99 Pay Monthly plan should be 3.5p) for a call to a landline and 8p for a call to a mobile. I contacted CS about this and they refunded the charges and fixed the tariff. I have not tested whether other European countries are correctly charged. There was a billing error that did mean you were overcharged for calling Greece and for this I do apologise. This was promptly rectified and the entire cost of the calls was refunded immediately (not just the overcharged amount) by way of apology. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover Calling Service Numbers At first it would seem you cannot call any number beginning with 08 from the sim. Depending on the number called you will either get endless ringing or one of a few error messages. I did find after a while that if you prefix the number with +44, e.g +44 870 123 4567 then the call will connect. Their web site for PAYG says that when calling service numbers (numbers beginning with 08) you will pay a 5p access charge plus the service charge for the number, however the service charge will be immediately refunded. For Pay Monthly it says that calls to service numbers will not cost more than your standard tariff. In my real world test with a Pay Monthly sim, I found that I was charged 18p for a call to an 0870 number which has a 13p service charge but the service charge was not refunded. I have in effect paid considerably more than my standard tariff. I have yet to ask their CS about this. It would appear the only 084/087 service numbers you have attempted to call are for calling card or call-through services. This, again, is expressly forbidden under the terms & conditions of service. When a number is identified as offering an onward calling service it is barred. It appears the reason you were charged for calling some of these numbers (rather than being told they were barred) is because you managed to circumvent the barring by dialling them using the international prefix (as you have noted above) - nonetheless, again, our CS refunded these charges for you in full. Barring (or charging extra for) access to calling card and call-through services is standard practice for mobile networks. This isn't the first time you've had this problem either I've noticed... Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover I've got a billing dispute with Vodafone. They are jokers. I've had a Vodafone account active since February, at which point I also added a bundle for 300 minutes to 08 numbers. On my recent bill, I have been charged over £30 for calls to an 0870 number, even though the summary clearly shows that I have only used 205 out of the 300 minutes. In all, I was billed for 66 minutes of "out of bundle" usage for such calls. When I first approached Vodafone about the problem, they said they would contact their "leakage" team to get them to refund. What I didn't expect was for the "leakage" team to refuse to refund the charges, as the 0870 number in question is a call-through number. They are now claiming that the charge levied for the call to the 0870 number is in fact a charge for the onward call to the final destination. I've now sent a written complaint (via Special Delivery) so they can't pretend not to get it. I've also promised that the case will go to the Ombudsman if it's not resolved to my satisfaction (including a good will gesture). I really very very strongly advise people to steer clear of Vodafone at the moment. If you're already with them, then check your bills carefully. I further note it appears you have now continued to attempt to bypass the restriction on calling premium rate numbers by making calls to International premium rate numbers in Estonia. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover General Calls and texts to 01, 02, 03 and mobile numbers appear to work and be charged as expected. I have not tried numbers in either the Channel Islands or Isle of Man (e.g 07924, 07939, 07781 etc). 070, 118 and 09 numbers are not available as stated on the Pebble web site. Data speeds for me were around 2Mbps down and 1Mbps up. This is about normal on O2 3G in my experience. I was assigned an IP from Manx Telecom. I have not yet tried EU roaming with this sim, that will come next month. As you say, if you are using the services as they are intended, for making calls, sending text messages and using data (as opposed to attempting to circumvent network controls or flout the terms & conditions) - everything works just as it should. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover The latest thing is that data usage doesn't seem to be billed in real-time. To date I have yet to see any charges applied for data usage, though I did receive an unexpected text telling me I have £1.07 of data charges pending billing. I suppose this means it would be possible to go over the standard plan charge if you are a heavy user, or perhaps the overage charges would be applied to the next months bill. Who knows! Data usage is only charged for/deducted from your balance when confirmation is received from the roamed network of the final amount (usually within 24hrs) - but reserves your balance/allowance in real-time. Much like your bank account has a 'balance' and an 'available balance'. Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover I've decided to cut my losses and cancel my Pebble sim. There have just been too many issues, especially with billing and I do not feel confident going forward. Do you mean to say you've discovered that you are not going to be able to abuse the service by using all 1000 inclusive minutes (sold at an eqv 3.5ppm) to call 13p 087 callthrough numbers and international premium rate numbers? *Chat log removed by Moderator*

28-08-2016, 18:56	#13
Aye Up Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: North West Posts: 4,885	Quote: Originally Posted by rightonpard I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble. I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service. So, I decided this needed looking into, addressing and responding personally. Declaration: I am the company director of *Pebble*. I really really do suggest you remove the chat transcript as you will be breaking DPA amongst other stuff.

28-08-2016, 18:57	#14
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	As above.

28-08-2016, 19:09	#15
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	I have to agree with Gigabit and Aye Up. Somebody who runs their own business should know better.

28-08-2016, 19:27	#16
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by rightonpard I was shocked to read this thread and hear of David Gover's supposed experience with Pebble. There is nothing supposed about it. Everything I have posted is factual. Quote: I started the network with two very simple aims; to provide the best mobile coverage and the best customer service. I didn't get an opportunity to test the coverage claim but I can say that the customer service was good. Quote: This doesn't work because it is not the way our services are intended to be used. Forcing a manual attachment to another network (where you already have a signal from our preferred network partner) is expressly forbidden by the terms of service. That may be but it's only logical that I would want to verify the functionality of the sim before being stuck in a no signal situation. Quote: This was implemented upon your request to our live chat team within the provided timescale. I can't think of any other UK mobile network currently providing this service, certainly not free of charge at least... whereas we have. Agreed. Quote: There was a billing error that did mean you were overcharged for calling Greece and for this I do apologise. This was promptly rectified and the entire cost of the calls was refunded immediately (not just the overcharged amount) by way of apology. Agreed. Quote: It would appear the only 084/087 service numbers you have attempted to call are for calling card or call-through services. This, again, is expressly forbidden under the terms & conditions of service. I didn't only call call-through services and I know you know that. Of course you don't mention that I only made ~ 10 minutes of calls to 087 numbers in total as that doesn't suit your agenda. Quote: When a number is identified as offering an onward calling service it is barred. You should probably check out Ofcom GC23 which doesn't actually allow arbitrary blocking of destination numbers anywhere in the EU. To be fair though, all the networks appear to do as such and Ofcom are spineless. Quote: It appears the reason you were charged for calling some of these numbers (rather than being told they were barred) is because you managed to circumvent the barring by dialling them using the international prefix (as you have noted above) - nonetheless, again, our CS refunded these charges for you in full. I did not circumvent any barring. In fact, it was impossible to dial any 084/087 number when I first received the sim. I then wondered if there was a problem with your dial plan so I tried the +44 prefix, which worked. There was no circumvention involved. Quote: Barring (or charging extra for) access to calling card and call-through services is standard practice for mobile networks. Not standard practice at all. A few such services have been barred by a few networks in the past but the vast majority are useable from all networks. Quote: This isn't the first time you've had this problem either I've noticed... Yes, I had a dispute with Vodafone over them attempting to charge me for calling 087 numbers even though I had an allowance to do so. There are many and varied legitimate reasons for calling an 087 number. In the end Vodafone refunded the charges, apologised and made a good-will gesture. The numbers I called are also still able to be dialled from Vodafone. Quote: I further note it appears you have now continued to attempt to bypass the restriction on calling premium rate numbers by making calls to International premium rate numbers in Estonia. I was curious whether your incorrect billing of calls to Greece was a one off or if it was repeated elsewhere. It turns out it IS repeated. Anybody using or thinking of using your service should be careful of your claim of 'inclusive international calls'. Quote: As you say, if you are using the services as they are intended, for making calls, sending text messages and using data (as opposed to attempting to circumvent network controls or flout the terms & conditions) - everything works just as it should. Well here's the thing. I spend most of my time in rural Dorset. You may or may not know that coverage there on any network is sporadic. That was my main motivating factor for trying a national roaming sim as I have had coverage issues with all the networks in the past. I also liked the idea of paying the same rate whether I was calling from or to the UK, Spain or Greece. As a bonus, should I need to make any calls to 08 numbers (e.g I recently had reason to call E2Save, which I initially tried from Pebble and it FAILED) then the idea of not having to worry too much about the cost was attractive, even if the sim was fairly high priced. Quote: Data usage is only charged for/deducted from your balance when confirmation is received from the roamed network of the final amount (usually within 24hrs) - but reserves your balance/allowance in real-time. Much like your bank account has a 'balance' and an 'available balance'. That may be so but at least with the bank I can see my balance and available balance. This does not appear to be possible with Pebble. Quote: Do you mean to say you've discovered that you are not going to be able to abuse the service by using all 1000 inclusive minutes (sold at an eqv 3.5ppm) to call 13p 087 callthrough numbers and international premium rate numbers? If you consider calling 08 numbers to be abuse, then I suggest you remove them from the bundle and/or charge extra for them. Plenty of people use international call-through services and have done since the beginning of the last decade. Regarding posting chat transcripts, you've just shown potential customers of your service that their communications with your employees will not remain private. I'd say that's a rather big mistake on your part. Dave

28-08-2016, 19:28	#17
petef Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 120	I have chosen not to read the live chat. I agree with the others that it should be deleted from public display. -- Pete Forman https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/

28-08-2016, 19:29	#18
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	This thread is clearly a bit of a minefield. I have no desire to wade into the actual details of the situation itself as this is clearly a private dispute but I would like to say that the company itself paints itself as a very sketchy by posting the chat log like that, despite the attempt to obscure sensitive elements of it. Agree with everyone else that this could potentially be in breach of the DPA, even if it isn't it's not the level of service that I would expect. Perhaps I'm being old but surely a dispute like this should be resolved in private with discretion and politeness from all sides, clearly this isn't going to get solved by arguing in public. Would suggest this thread is locked/closed/deleted.

28-08-2016, 19:39	#19
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 I would like to say that the company itself paints itself as a very sketchy by posting the chat log like that, despite the attempt to obscure sensitive elements of it. Agree with everyone else that this could potentially be in breach of the DPA, even if it isn't it's not the level of service that I would expect. I doubt there is anybody who would think that it's ok to post a chat log like that. There is an expectation of privacy. Quote: Perhaps I'm being old but surely a dispute like this should be resolved in private with discretion and politeness from all sides, clearly this isn't going to get solved by arguing in public. Would suggest this thread is locked/closed/deleted. The thread didn't start as a dispute, I just gave my totally 100% honest opinion of my brief encounter with Pebble. i will be somewhere between £35-£70 out of pocket from giving Pebble a try but I'm not complaining. I knew it might not be the perfect solution it tries to paint itself as. Then along comes a company director who doesn't like anything negative being said about his product. That is to be expected but he has then gone on to make accusations and post what was expected to be a private chat transcript. This thread should definitely not be deleted as others should see what they can expect if they sign up to Pebble, both from the quality of the service and the potential lack of respect of their privacy by it's director.

28-08-2016, 19:47	#20
rightonpard Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: North Wales & Cornwall Posts: 144	The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary.

28-08-2016, 19:49	#21
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by DavidGover I doubt there is anybody who would think that it's ok to post a chat log like that. There is an expectation of privacy. The thread didn't start as a dispute, I just gave my totally 100% honest opinion of my brief encounter with Pebble. i will be somewhere between £35-£70 out of pocket from giving Pebble a try but I'm not complaining. I knew it might not be the perfect solution it tries to paint itself as. Then along comes a company director who doesn't like anything negative being said about his product. That is to be expected but he has then gone on to make accusations and post what was expected to be a private chat transcript. This thread should definitely not be deleted as others should see what they can expect if they sign up to Pebble, both from the quality of the service and the potential lack of respect of their privacy by it's director. Completely agree about the expectation of privacy. Agree that it didn't start as a dispute and maybe deleting it would be too far thinking now. I do think though that this back and forth between yourself and the director isn't the way to now solve this issue. If he claims to want to offer the best service in the country I would suggest that he uses your details that he has clearly accessed to give you a ring and then you can post your experience following that.

DS Forums

Pebble (national roaming sim) experience

28-08-2016, 19:50	#22
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by rightonpard The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary. Think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want it there? Might as well delete it now.....

28-08-2016, 19:52	#23
petef Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 120	Quote: Originally Posted by rightonpard The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary. If David Gover gives his permission then I shall read it. But the point is that it should not have been made public up front. -- Pete Forman https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/

28-08-2016, 19:56	#24
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by rightonpard The transcript contains no personal information - but can be removed should David Gover request, or a moderator deem it necessary. Delete it. Immediately. Please. I shouldn't even need to ask.

28-08-2016, 19:57	#25
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by petef If David Gover gives his permission then I shall read it. But the point is that it should not have been made public up front. -- Pete Forman https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com/ I haven't even read it myself as posted, so I have no idea if it's a true representation of my communications with Pebble!