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Old 26-08-2016, 01:07
batdude_uk1
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I'm not so sure, Copenhagen, Brugges and Porto are all fun and easy cities to get to for the Leicester fans with no long treks to eastern Europe. They may have missed the big boys - but that was almost inevitable due to their ludicrous seeding - but I'm sure they will have a great time on their travels.
I am looking forward to seeing quite how Leicester get on in their maden voyage in the Champions League, it is not the worst possible draw that they could have got, nor is it the "easiest" one either, so they do have a chance, and it would be great to see them qualify for the next round.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:03
roddydogs
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I'm not so sure, Copenhagen, Brugges and Porto are all fun and easy cities to get to for the Leicester fans with no long treks to eastern Europe. They may have missed the big boys - but that was almost inevitable due to their ludicrous seeding - but I'm sure they will have a great time on their travels.
Why is it "Ludicrous" when they won the PL?
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Old 26-08-2016, 07:38
LostFool
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Why is it "Ludicrous" when they won the PL?
Previously the seedings were done on the basis of the club's UEFA coefficient which took into account past performance in European competitions. Now Pot 1 is reserved for winning the top leagues in Europe. That's why Man City weren't top seeds before despite winning the PL as they didn't have the European record.
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Old 26-08-2016, 07:56
misawa97
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The pot 1 seedings for title winners is one thing UEFA has got right.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:27
batdude_uk1
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Giving England, Italy, Spain, and Germany, guaranteed four teams in the Group stages, is however, one thing that they have got wrong.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:38
TheMunch
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With four guaranteed places, it settles the old argument of the fourth-placed team being referred to as a Champions League club. Now they no longer have to get through the qualifiers.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:42
batdude_uk1
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With four guaranteed places, it settles the old argument of the fourth-placed team being referred to as a Champions League club. Now they no longer have to get through the qualifiers.
I still think it is tilting things far too much in favour of those leagues, why should they get four guaranteed places??

As we have seen very recently, Roma got knocked out in the qualifying stage, that is hardly an endorsement to give Italy four guaranteed places is it?
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:44
Monkey Harris
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People have already been moaning about the sub-par teams that are in this years CL, Id have no objection to the proposals.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:48
batdude_uk1
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People have already been moaning about the sub-par teams that are in this years CL, Id have no objection to the proposals.
The teams that are in it, fully deserve to be in it, as they have worked to qualify for the group stages.

Quite why Roma for example, would deserve a guaranteed place (if the rules were in place for this season) I don't know, as they have proven that they do not.

This is just making it harder for anyone outside of those four leagues to achieve success in the Champions League.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:49
Jamesp84
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Italy are the big winners from that. Despite the glee/panic (delete as applicable) at the prospect of them gaining a CL place at England's expense, they've struggled to consistently get their full compliment into the group stages for a while.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:53
Monkey Harris
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The teams that are in it, fully deserve to be in it, as they have worked to qualify for the group stages.

Quite why Roma for example, would deserve a guaranteed place (if the rules were in place for this season) I don't know, as they have proven that they do not.

This is just making it harder for anyone outside of those four leagues to achieve success in the Champions League.
So why do the second place clubs or the third place clubs deserve a place? We have long established that the Champions League is not just about the Champions but about having the biggest and best teams. I presume you would advocate a Champions Only competition n that case which would just drive clubs to a Euro Super League instead.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:00
The_don1
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Giving England, Italy, Spain, and Germany, guaranteed four teams in the Group stages, is however, one thing that they have got wrong.
They are the "biggest leagues", If UEFA want to attract big money for the next TV deal then TV companies will want the biggest names from the biggest leagues taking part.

The big clubs in Europe will be looking at our leagues latest TV deal and wanting UEFA to get deals that bring in big money. If they fail to do then some of the European big boys might start looking at forming something of their own to try and take control of negotiating a big TV deal.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:07
misawa97
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I don't see how any other league will ever be able to replace the top 4 leagues. They have the most sides in the competition by default so will naturally remain at the top.

It's a ridiculous decision. Roma lost to Porto yet under this ruling would now be automatically entered into the group stages because what? How can one talk about mediocre sides being in the tournament when a so called big side can't even get past the qualifier.

At present Italy has a 15 point lead over France in fifth but this ruling means the drawbridge is pulled up and then because they've got an automatic four from then on, they'll probably stand no chance of being caught.

It's disgusting
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:10
soulboy77
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I suppose it recognises the strength of the those leagues over the others, though its going to make the group stages a lot tougher as clubs will be more likely to meet teams from the other top leagues. At least from a revenue point of view it guarantees English clubs 6 games minimum.

With the Europa winners guaranteed a place as well, I'm not sure if they would count as as one of the four teams or if it would mean a country could potentially have five teams in the Champions League.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:12
misawa97
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I suppose it recognises the strength of the those leagues over the others, though its going to make the group stages a lot tougher as clubs will be more likely to meet teams from the other top leagues. At least from a revenue point of view it guarantees English clubs 6 games minimum.

With the Europa winners guaranteed a place as well, I'm not sure if they would count as as one of the four teams or if it would mean a country could potentially have five teams in the Champions League.
It doesn't really as all it will do now is have those leagues remaining at the top. It will make it extremely difficult for any other league to get into a top 4 league position simply due to the number of teams the current top 4 automatically entered in to the CL.

I would call it protectionism

"The amendments made will continue to ensure qualification based on sporting merit, and the right of all associations and their clubs to compete in Europe's elite club competitions.
Lol

What happens if after 3 years the big leagues want 5 or 6 sides in the CL? UEFA continue to make concessions for a select few which is a dangerous path.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:30
Chris1964
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If it allays the prospect of some kind of hideous closed shop breakaway, then I have no problem with idea. Clearly its an ideal to have the best teams in the competition, but they still have to earn the right. Its fundamental to football structure imo that there is the potential for movement from the very bottom to the very top (even if that prospect at its most extreme would need fairy dust to be realised).
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:31
Monkey Harris
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The strongest leagues nationally have been that way for decades, its not determined by the Champions League places. Belgium and Scotland aren't being denied the opportunity to eat at the table and suddenly have a massively respected league because Italy have four CL places.

Also if it makes the group stages a lot tougher then that implies an increase in the quality of the teams involved which is the aim.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:47
batdude_uk1
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Will "wildcards" or whatever be happening if big teams have a poor run of form,and miss out on European football completely as for example we did, and AC Milan have had in recent seasons, so that UEFA can get all of their favourite and much in demand teams into their prized competition??

It is just damaging the product to have it so one sided, and so much harder from teams outwith those four leagues.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:50
Monkey Harris
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Will "wildcards" or whatever be happening if big teams have a poor run of form,and miss out on European football completely as for example we did, and AC Milan have had in recent seasons, so that UEFA can get all of their favourite and much in demand teams into their prized competition??

It is just damaging the product to have it so one sided, and so much harder from teams outwith those four leagues.
It doesn't damage the product to have the strongest teams in the competition. That isn't one sided. Its more exciting for everyone where you get scenarios where the groups are made up of strong teams, rather than where you can see the teams that are going to take a hiding.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:55
Jim De Ville
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It is just damaging the product to have it so one sided, and so much harder from teams outwith those four leagues.
But that's the complete opposite of the truth.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this decision, the 'product' will only be enhanced by having the most-supported teams in it.

Compare the prospective viewing figures of a match between Ludogrets and Copenhagen, and a match between Manchester United and AC Milan.

The bigger clubs pull in the sponsorships and viewing figures. That's what it ultimately boils down to.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:57
batdude_uk1
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It doesn't damage the product to have the strongest teams in the competition. That isn't one sided. Its more exciting for everyone where you get scenarios where the groups are made up of strong teams, rather than where you can see the teams that are going to take a hiding.
It damages it, as it makes it seem set up for the benefit of those four leagues, and the rest are just there to make up the numbers.

Whereas before or previously, there was at least a semblance of so called "fairness", now things are just being tipped far too much in the favour of those four leagues.

Having a place where we and the other leagues here where a team had to qualify, showed that it was not almost a closed shop, but with this decision, it is verging on that direction.

Why should for example Roma get an automatic place in the group stages (if this ruling was for this season) and not Porto?
Have Roma or the Italian league collectively proven that they are better than the Portuguese league?

They are just looking at ways to appease the "bigger" clubs at the expense of the ones not classified as such.
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:59
batdude_uk1
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But that's the complete opposite of the truth.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this decision, the 'product' will only be enhanced by having the most-supported teams in it.

Compare the prospective viewing figures of a match between Ludogrets and Copenhagen, and a match between Manchester United and AC Milan.

The bigger clubs pull in the sponsorships and viewing figures. That's what it ultimately boils down to.
That us true, but clubs must warrant being in the competition in the first place, as I said how long before "wildcards" and the like are brought in to make sure clubs who have a poor season or two, are still in it, to make sure those all important viewing figures are kept as high as possible?
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:59
misawa97
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The strongest leagues nationally have been that way for decades, its not determined by the Champions League places. Belgium and Scotland aren't being denied the opportunity to eat at the table and suddenly have a massively respected league because Italy have four CL places.

Also if it makes the group stages a lot tougher then that implies an increase in the quality of the teams involved which is the aim.
As I posted before currently France are 15 points behind Italy. How does Italy having an automatic 4 places not make it harder for France to overtake Italy?
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:01
Jim De Ville
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Have the Italian league collectively proven that they are better than the Portuguese league?
Whichever way you want to look at it, yes, they have. That's why Italy are getting this guaranteed place, and Portugal are not. It's based on the co-efficient, which is based on past performance.
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:04
batdude_uk1
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Whichever way you want to look at it, yes, they have. That's why Italy are getting this guaranteed place, and Portugal are not. It's based on the co-efficient, which is based on past performance.
I look at it as Porto beating Roma, hence in my mind, Porto deserve a place more than Roma.

I think this is more about the historical big leagues, rather than any current thinking, as Italy really only have Juve, who are any decent these days.
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