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Champions League 2016/2017 |
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#151 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,429
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Quote:
That us true, but clubs must warrant being in the competition in the first place, as I said how long before "wildcards" and the like are brought in to make sure clubs who have a poor season or two, are still in it, to make sure those all important viewing figures are kept as high as possible?
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#152 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,039
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I look at it as Porto beating Roma, hence in my mind, Porto deserve a place more than Roma.
I think this is more about the historical big leagues, rather than any current thinking, as Italy really only have Juve, who are any decent these days. Porto beating Roma in a one-off game doesn't suddenly mean that the Portuguese league is 'better' than the Italian one. |
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#153 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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This doesn't sound too good:-
Good news for Red Star Belgrade + Steaua Bucharest in @UEFA Euro rules. "Historical success will be acknowledged in coefficient calculation" How far back does that "historical success" go I wonder? As it should be about the modern day, rather than what a club achieved in the past. |
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#154 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
If Juventus were the only Italian club to have done anything 'decent' recently, then their co-efficient wouldn't be as high as it is.
Porto beating Roma in a one-off game doesn't suddenly mean that the Portuguese league is 'better' than the Italian one. So Roma had ample opportunity to prove that they were better than Porto, but they did not at all prove that. |
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#155 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
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Quote:
It damages it, as it makes it seem set up for the benefit of those four leagues, and the rest are just there to make up the numbers.
Whereas before or previously, there was at least a semblance of so called "fairness", now things are just being tipped far too much in the favour of those four leagues. Having a place where we and the other leagues here where a team had to qualify, showed that it was not almost a closed shop, but with this decision, it is verging on that direction. Why should for example Roma get an automatic place in the group stages (if this ruling was for this season) and not Porto? Have Roma or the Italian league collectively proven that they are better than the Portuguese league? They are just looking at ways to appease the "bigger" clubs at the expense of the ones not classified as such. Quote:
As I posted before currently France are 15 points behind Italy. How does Italy having an automatic 4 places not make it harder for France to overtake Italy?
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#156 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Quote:
They "warrant" being in via bringing in more viewers, better Sponsorship deals having a better fan base etc
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#157 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,039
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It wasn't a one-off game, it was a two legged tie.
So Roma had ample opportunity to prove that they were better than Porto, but they did not at all prove that. You have fixated on one game, sorry 'tie', to entirely base your argument on. Therefore, any further discussion with you is pointless. |
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#158 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
Would Porto be banned from the qualification competition if Italy got 4 places?
When in the history of the modern game has the French League been deemed better than the Italian League? How many European Cup winners have France produced without the proposed favouritism? |
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#159 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Quote:
Would Porto be banned from the qualification competition if Italy got 4 places?
When in the history of the modern game has the French League been deemed better than the Italian League? How many European Cup winners have France produced without the proposed favouritism? As it stands the coefficient says they are 4th and I have no issue with that. My issue is we are now seeing a cartel to make sure that top 4 remains the top 4 no matter what. |
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#160 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
Don't be such a pedantic sod. You knew exactly what I meant.
You have fixated on one game, sorry 'tie', to entirely base your argument on. Therefore, any further discussion with you is pointless. I have fixated on it, because it goes to show that the Italian league doesn't deserve or warrent four places directly into the group stages. If Roma had beaten Porto, then this would at least have shown that they deserve to be in the group stages. |
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#161 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
It's not about history. League positions are based on coefficients. The idea that a Serie A for example should be regarded as a top 4 league because of history is ridiculous.
As it stands the coefficient says they are 4th and I have no issue with that. My issue is we are now seeing a cartel to make sure that top 4 remains the top 4 no matter what. You have my backing here, I am in full agreement with what you are saying. |
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#162 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,343
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Quote:
Porto beating Roma in a one-off game doesn't suddenly mean that the Portuguese league is 'better' than the Italian one.
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#163 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Who cares about sporting integrity
Sporting Integrity is all well and good but when a club who gets relegated in a league gets a massive amount of money you cannot expect other clubs who are succesful to sit around and not look at ways (or insist on the goverening body of a compertion) to bring in money |
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#164 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
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No, you said it was a one off match, when it was not, don't blame me if what you meant to say, you didn't say!
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#165 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Not the European clubs when they see the sort of money coming into English Clubs and understandably they want to get that sort of money coming into their club.
Sporting Integrity is all well and good but when a club who gets relegated in a league gets a massive amount of money you cannot expect other clubs who are succesful to sit around and not look at ways (or insist on the goverening body of a compertion) to bring in money |
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#166 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Are you actually trying to claim that you didn't understand the point being made?
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#167 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quite. Using that logic, the Romanian League is better than the Premier League seeing as one of their teams beat one of ours.
This is what we are talking about here are we not? The Europa League is a different discussion point. |
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#168 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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Or, if you understood the point being made, you could reply to it rather than derail the thread with pointless pedantry when everyone knew what Jim meant.
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#169 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,039
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If you are going to try and argue a point, it is best to actually say what you mean, rather than saying something, and then being critical of someone for saying what you should have said in the first place.
And I really don't think that I need lessons from you, when it comes to arguing a point! Hilarious. |
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#170 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
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Well Marseille did win it in 92 before being stripped of the title.
a)They were cheating b)Was the French League recognised as being strong than the Italian League over that period, which is what I asked? |
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#171 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the EPL TV deal which has driven this. CL football revenue still doesn't come close to what every EPL side earns.
The best way to encouge that is to ensure clubs from the biggest leagues are involved. The big clubs sooner or later will look at breaking away and do you think they will say the top 4 clubs in their leagues come with us or the top 2? Clubs want to see more money come via the CL, They rightly don't care about being fair or if its a closed shop. They want to see the teams involved that will bring in the most money. If you asked a cross section of people name the biggest leagues in Europe Spain,England Germany and Italy would more then likely have more votes then others. Its basic business and that is what the clubs who generate the money want |
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#172 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
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Quote:
In the Champions League?
This is what we are talking about here are we not? The Europa League is a different discussion point. |
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#173 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
I called you a pedant because you were being a pedant.
And I really don't think that I need lessons from you, when it comes to arguing a point! Hilarious. Quote:
Yes I know that but
a)They were cheating b)Was the French League recognised as being strong than the Italian League over that period, which is what I asked? As for point B, only being very young at the time, I don't really know what the general feeling was about the relative strengths of both leagues when compared to each other at that time. ![]() Quote:
The principle would be the same for the sake of your argument though would it not?
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#174 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
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Quote:
It's not about history. League positions are based on coefficients. The idea that a Serie A for example should be regarded as a top 4 league because of history is ridiculous.
As it stands the coefficient says they are 4th and I have no issue with that. My issue is we are now seeing a cartel to make sure that top 4 remains the top 4 no matter what. Its closing off a level of competition that was never really there anyway. |
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#175 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 241
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Quote:
No not really, as we are talking about teams that should be a countries strongest ones, (hence qualifying for the Champions League, rather than the Europa League).
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