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Old 26-08-2016, 08:39
allen_who
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Article i found....


44. Michael Grade is mistakenly hated by Doctor Who fans

Many fans place the blame for Doctor Who’s demise in the Eighties heavily on Michael Grade’s shoulders. It’s no secret that the man who was BBC One’s Controller from 1984 to 1986 wasn’t a fan of the show (he called it ‘rubbish’ and ‘pathetic’), and he did suspend the series in 1986 and dismiss Colin Baker (who he described as ‘absolutely God-awful’ in the role). However, it was actually Jonathan Powell who cancelled Doctor Who in 1989; by then Michael Grade was controller of Channel 4. When the series was successfully revived in 2005, Grade wrote a letter congratulating the BBC on the triumph, ending with, ‘PS never dreamed I would ever write this. Must be going soft!’.
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Old 26-08-2016, 08:44
Granny McSmith
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I'm sorry, but I've blamed Michael Grade for too long now, and I'm too set in my ways, to suddenly change my mind and start liking him. He'll just have to put up with it.
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Old 26-08-2016, 08:45
allen_who
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I'm sorry, but I've hated Michael Grade for too long now, and I'm too set in my ways, to suddenly change my mind and start liking him. He'll just have to put up with it.
And granny's are supposed to be forgiving
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Old 26-08-2016, 08:50
Granny McSmith
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And granny's are supposed to be forgiving
I'll forgive anyone for anything except people who mess with Doctor Who.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:43
chuffnobbler
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Michael Grade pulled the legs out from beneath DW before Jonathan Powell finished it off. Teamwork.
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:13
Mulett
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I've never blamed Michael Grade for axing the show in 1989. I blame him for trying to axe the show in 1985 when it was still incredibly popular, putting it on hiatus for 18 months, cutting its budget by 50% and generally treating poor old Colin Baker like dirt.

Colin recalls a time he was stood in a corridor at the BBC in full costume and Grade walked by and blanked him completely. And that was just how he treated Colin behind the scenes. He did even worse in public!

Grade knew the show made a lot of money for the BBC but decided it wasn't working. So where were his plans to make it work better? Non existent!! Which is a strange way to treat one of the BBC's few cash-cows of the 1980s.
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Old 26-08-2016, 18:29
daveyboy7472
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Though Michael Grade didn't directly axe the show in '89 his decision in '85 to put the show on hiatus was what really killed the show off.

As Mulett has said it was still popular in '85, getting over 7 million viewers per episode which even by today's standards is not that bad. When it came back it barely hit 5 million.

The show never recovered from that.

The solution was very simple. All he had to do was replace JNT and get some fresh eyes and minds working on the show. JNT had been in the job some five or six years by this point, a change was desperately needed.

That didn't happen and the show went into freefall from there.

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Old 26-08-2016, 19:17
Lord Smexy
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Whether it was his fault or not, you can always dislike him for other reasons, i.e. generally being a complete tool.
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Old 26-08-2016, 21:26
allen_who
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Though Michael Grade didn't directly axe the show in '89 his decision in '85 to put the show on hiatus was what really killed the show off.

As Mulett has said it was still popular in '85, getting over 7 million viewers per episode which even by today's standards is not that bad. When it came back it barely hit 5 million.

The show never recovered from that.

The solution was very simple. All he had to do was replace JNT and get some fresh eyes and minds working on the show. JNT had been in the job some five or six years by this point, a change was desperately needed.

That didn't happen and the show went into freefall from there.


I cant disagree... a certain Chris Chibnall was peed off too
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Old 26-08-2016, 21:36
CrankyStorming
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Though Michael Grade didn't directly axe the show in '89 his decision in '85 to put the show on hiatus was what really killed the show off.

As Mulett has said it was still popular in '85, getting over 7 million viewers per episode which even by today's standards is not that bad. When it came back it barely hit 5 million.
6 or 7 million was not good by the standards of 1985. Not only was it barely over half what it was getting five or ten years prior, but regularly falling out of the top 100 for the week. A 'popular' BBC1 show would easily get twice those figures. If anything, Michael Grade saved the show by keeping it around years after the general public stopped caring.
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Old 26-08-2016, 22:24
daveyboy7472
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6 or 7 million was not good by the standards of 1985. Not only was it barely over half what it was getting five or ten years prior, but regularly falling out of the top 100 for the week. A 'popular' BBC1 show would easily get twice those figures. If anything, Michael Grade saved the show by keeping it around years after the general public stopped caring.
I disagree with you a bit here.

In Doctor Who terms the previous few series leading upto Season 22 had been averaging out around the 7 million mark. Yes, you're right in one way, not as good as the high figures Tom Baker had in his early Seasons and nowhere near the peak of Season 17. And they were definitely down on Davison's first seasons of around the 9 million mark.

Whether the ratings were good or not, they were at least consistent in those few years leading upto the hiatus. They took a serious tumble when it came back.

So in my view, his actions killed of the show later on in '89. Had the show just taken the right steps those figures could have been maintained around the 7 million mark and who knows, with a new producer with new ideas, maybe they could have climbed again.

Maybe they wouldn't have done, we'll never know. The fact remains the hiatus lost the show viewers. Simple as.

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Old 30-08-2016, 14:09
AidanLunn
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Colin recalls a time he was stood in a corridor at the BBC in full costume and Grade walked by and blanked him completely. And that was just how he treated Colin behind the scenes. He did even worse in public!
Isn't that all down to Michael running off with Colin's wife, or something similar? So that's probably why he blanked Colin completely. You know, being all adult about it and not at all acting like a petulant child!
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Old 30-08-2016, 21:04
Westy2
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Isn't that all down to Michael running off with Colin's wife, or something similar? So that's probably why he blanked Colin completely. You know, being all adult about it and not at all acting like a petulant child!
Wasnt Lisa Goddard just friends with Grade & when her marriage ended, he basically stuck up for her?

Certainly both Liza & Colin have worked together on a theatre tour a few years ago & seemed to got over any difficulties on that score.

Cant speak for Grade though.

Mind you, doesnt Colin work mainly on the stage these days?

Certainly the last telly he did was The Fiveish Doctors & Antiques Roadtrip to my knowledge.
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Old 31-08-2016, 00:54
Boz_Lowdownl
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Isn't that all down to Michael running off with Colin's wife, or something similar? So that's probably why he blanked Colin completely. You know, being all adult about it and not at all acting like a petulant child!
Sounds just like Colin and his relationship with DWM!
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Old 31-08-2016, 08:25
Mulett
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Isn't that all down to Michael running off with Colin's wife, or something similar? So that's probably why he blanked Colin completely. You know, being all adult about it and not at all acting like a petulant child!
I don't think Grade was romantically involved with Colin's ex-wife, but there was certainly a personal element to the way he treated Colin. It certainly went beyond professional and that does make me doubt his motives for the way he then treated the show.

I worked at TV centre for many years and - I promise you - it was a very insentuous environment with countless affairs running in the background and many relationships which ended badly. But staff of all levels were expected to carry on regardless, and mostly they did. That's why Grade's behaviour towards Colin sticks out for me. And it does make me question Grade's motives over all.

Here's the scenario from 1985: You are running a corporation with a product that is very popular within the UK and making a lot of money in overseas sales, but you don't personally like that product. So what do you do?
a/ try to axe it
b/ invest some time and money to make it better

I would suggest if the decision making at the BBC had been professional, it would have been option B.
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Old 31-08-2016, 19:32
dave_windows
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Article i found....


44. Michael Grade is mistakenly hated by Doctor Who fans

Many fans place the blame for Doctor Who’s demise in the Eighties heavily on Michael Grade’s shoulders. It’s no secret that the man who was BBC One’s Controller from 1984 to 1986 wasn’t a fan of the show (he called it ‘rubbish’ and ‘pathetic’), and he did suspend the series in 1986 and dismiss Colin Baker (who he described as ‘absolutely God-awful’ in the role). However, it was actually Jonathan Powell who cancelled Doctor Who in 1989; by then Michael Grade was controller of Channel 4. When the series was successfully revived in 2005, Grade wrote a letter congratulating the BBC on the triumph, ending with, ‘PS never dreamed I would ever write this. Must be going soft!’.
Doesnt matter whos mistaken they are both w***ers for cancelling the show. Colin should have been given a third series.
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Old 05-09-2016, 03:15
tiggerpooh
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Article i found....


44. Michael Grade is mistakenly hated by Doctor Who fans

Many fans place the blame for Doctor Who’s demise in the Eighties heavily on Michael Grade’s shoulders. It’s no secret that the man who was BBC One’s Controller from 1984 to 1986 wasn’t a fan of the show (he called it ‘rubbish’ and ‘pathetic’), and he did suspend the series in 1986 and dismiss Colin Baker (who he described as ‘absolutely God-awful’ in the role). However, it was actually Jonathan Powell who cancelled Doctor Who in 1989; by then Michael Grade was controller of Channel 4. When the series was successfully revived in 2005, Grade wrote a letter congratulating the BBC on the triumph, ending with, ‘PS never dreamed I would ever write this. Must be going soft!’.
So, he was happy for programmes like Brookside to keep going, but not for Doctor Who. Hmm...Interesting.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:25
allen_who
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So, he was happy for programmes like Brookside to keep going, but not for Doctor Who. Hmm...Interesting.
To fair dr who had become a bit naff by mid 80s. Mary whitehouse forced it to dumbed down and the monsters looked increasingly laughable. Stories were dreary also.. the show itself has to take some blame for the axe
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:21
Mulett
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To fair dr who had become a bit naff by mid 80s. Mary whitehouse forced it to dumbed down and the monsters looked increasingly laughable. Stories were dreary also.. the show itself has to take some blame for the axe
I think JNT started off so well with the refreshed Davison's era, but then kind of lost the plot.

A shame because the 6th Doctor and Peri could have been brilliant but the writing just wasn't there - although the do remain one of my favourite Doctor/companion pairings.
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Old 08-09-2016, 17:16
Evil Genius
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Though Michael Grade didn't directly axe the show in '89 his decision in '85 to put the show on hiatus was what really killed the show off.

As Mulett has said it was still popular in '85, getting over 7 million viewers per episode which even by today's standards is not that bad. When it came back it barely hit 5 million.

The show never recovered from that.

The solution was very simple. All he had to do was replace JNT and get some fresh eyes and minds working on the show. JNT had been in the job some five or six years by this point, a change was desperately needed.

That didn't happen and the show went into freefall from there.

And JNT had wanted to go. He's felt he'd done enough. If I remember rightly, he'd even tried to leave the season after the hiatus to be told he couldn't leave because if he did, they'd (PTB) cancel the show then.
As a result, they kept the one who wanted to leave and fired the one who wanted to stay. BBC logic at the time.

You know, I've met Powell. A few years ago on account we both worked for an organisation years before but at different times. I know what media types can be like (like Mullett, having worked and spent time with them), but Powell is in a league of his own. He came across as an unlikeable, knowitall, arrogant t*sser.
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Old 08-09-2016, 18:48
daveyboy7472
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And JNT had wanted to go. He's felt he'd done enough. If I remember rightly, he'd even tried to leave the season after the hiatus to be told he couldn't leave because if he did, they'd (PTB) cancel the show then.
As a result, they kept the one who wanted to leave and fired the one who wanted to stay. BBC logic at the time.

You know, I've met Powell. A few years ago on account we both worked for an organisation years before but at different times. I know what media types can be like (like Mullett, having worked and spent time with them), but Powell is in a league of his own. He came across as an unlikeable, knowitall, arrogant t*sser.
I agree absolutely about JNT.

A lot of people would lay every single thing that went wrong in the 80's at his door but I think the fact he tried to leave when he did was a sign he knew he'd done enough and he knew a new producer may have given the show the boost it needed. So on that particular issue, JNT did try to do the right thing.

Saying that, I think maybe he should have left when Peter Davison did. He'd done four Seasons by then, he'd have had less problems leaving then and maybe if he had, the show would have got better but that's speculative, I know.

Plus he would have had a far healthier legacy if he had left at that point.

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