Thought it was interesting the scene yesterday between Ben and Jay in the arches plotting revenge against Paul's killers.

It seemed very much like a typical Phil and Grant scene from one of their revenge storylines.

My question is, can Ben and Jay ever really be taken seriously as another Phil/Grant?
On Jamie Borthwicks instagram he posted a pic of him and Ben ahead of next weeks events, hinting that they are the next Krays or Phil/Grant. I think its insulting and delusional to even think that they have any resemblance of them. Hope they don't take the viewers for mugs again and make out they are the new hard men of walford.

We didn't meet Phil and Grant til they were in their 30s so it's hard to tell. ATM they just seem like two lads who feel they have nothing to lose... they've lost so much lately.

I know that Grant and Phil were much older but it seems EE is intent on making these two the new 21st century version.

Its not the first time this has been hinted at, and with Grant returning for what is possibly his final stint, maybe this storyline is the catalyst to show them as taking over as the new Walford hardmen.

As you said they've been through a lot over the last 6 months, seems like they took that decision deliberately to speed up their role. Making Ben really angry losing Paul in a violent way, Jay involved with taking and dealing drugs etc. If you had said these two were going to take over from Phil and Grant last year you'd have laughed at the suggestion. Now with them both taking a darker turn, I'm sure that is what they are planning.

Time will tell but I think the only way it would work is if they get sent down and recast them in a few years time with two more macho looking guys who can carry off the hardmen role.

They are too baby faced to be considered hardmen.

I find there relationship quite bizarre, there not real brothers Ben keeps referring to them as "brothers" "bruv" it's like he's trying to convince himself that they are. I always thought was a lot more interested in Jay than Paul and he did make a move on Jay a while ago. I don't find them likeable together.

Glad I'm not the only one that sees this. Every scene over the past 6 months seems to involve a lot of physical contact that you'd expect from 2 gay men. I have twin brothers in my family and they are close but not like Ben and Jay.

The only similarity they have with the Krays is if they become lovers but hide it from everyone else. Maybe that is what they are hinting at with all these hugs and stuff.

I know people are obsessed with the idea that they're trying to make Ben and Jay the new Phil and Grant and are OUTRAGED AT THE PROSPECT! (I wonder how many have written to the Daily Mail about it so far).

But seriously, they're just Ben and Jay. Why do they have to be copying anyone? They have an interesting brotherly dynamic. And the fact they're not blood related just makes it more interesting that they have this bond, so I don't know why people keep belittling them for that.

Can't we be pleased that there are two characters on the show that have such a strong relationship? It's something different from the norm and people complain about other characters who don't have ties in the square and no backstory or continuity. Well these two do. They have quite a complex history as friends/brothers/whatever. So I love their bond and I like storylines that see them working together.

Phil and Grant? Who??

Well said.

This. Neither of them are "hard". Jay doesn't have the physique, and is generally too nice. Ben may be violent, but that is usually directed at those weaker than him (Abi/Louise etc). On top of that, Ben has been beaten up by a man with one arm in a sling. There's no coming back from that.

I don't want them just getting carbon copies of Phil and Grant storylines anyway. Their relationship works in a different way (particularly as Ben is definitely in love with Jay ).

no idea where this bond came from, when Ben was a child there were not really that many occasions of Ben and Jay teaming up together.
It feels a bit forced and to go back to the question, No, as they indeed do not have the fysique and reason to be the new "Krays", Ben's loss of Paul is the only reason, there are not many other criminal things going on

How can Ben be a 'hardman'?

He has been punched more times than the sheets of paper in an A Level student's folder.

When Ben and Jay were younger they didn't get on at all. Ben hated Jay because Jay was the son Phil wished he had and he was embarrassed at Ben.

Its only since Harry Reid reprised the role that they have this closeness. For me its more the actors are close in real life and the directors and crew have noted this and decided to use that on screen. I think they are playing up to a following on social media like robron. Not sure where they are going with it in all honesty, just seems very forced and unless they are to get together I wish they'd drop the act as its OTT.

Ironically you've just described sibling rivalry/jealousy at its best.

Ben never hated Jay. When they were younger they used to play together and then when the last Ben took over then at first Ben was jealous of Jay but I think he got over it and they were OK and like brothers and I'm sure they helped each other many times and stood together against the likes of Shirley and Phil and that whole drama and then obviously Ben killed Heather and Jay kept it a secret even though it killed him and then later when Ben confessed, Jay back up his claims even though Phil didn't want him to which Ben was grateful for.

And then obviously when he got back from jail he got in contact with Jay months before he came back and he's the only one he trusted enough to do that and then since then they've supported each other. I think their relationship is very natural considering how long they've known each other and how alone they both feel sometimes. They've had their ups and downs but they've never hated each other and against all the madness have been there.

I've never warmed to Jay as a character I don't know why maybe its the actor who plays him but he's just not likable to me, he's just a Mitchell wannabe lets not forget how quickly he drooped Billy to get closer to Phil and how he treated Abi was disgusting.

They are the best part of Eastenders right now

The new Minty and Gary I'd say !

No, as Grant will shortly prove

I wondered if it was trying to re-create Phil & Grant, especially with Louise now in the show, like a replacement Sam too.

This show doesn't know how to do subtle. For me they are blatantly trying to set them up as the new Phil and Grant. I saw a little clip earlier from tomorrows episode with Ben talking to Courtney and Louise about the lads and they have found out where one of them works.

Ben is even talking more like your typical lad in a pub, all this 'bruv' stuff, over playing the cockney accent. This has only started happening in recent weeks, I wonder why that is!!!

If we're comparing I'd say Jay is probably Phil. The intelligent, softer brother. Ben needs a few fights under his belt to be the Grant of the pairing. He needs to be shown to be someone people wouldn't mess with.

First on his list should be Lee Carter. Give him a good beating and people would start taking notice of Ben Mitchell.

Yeah, speaking of which, I can't believe they're setting Linda up as the new Peggy. I mean they're both blonde, they both work in the Vic.. she even called someone "Darling" the other dayl I wonder why that is!!

Sorry, I just don't see what you're getting at. It looks to me like you're trying hard to make comparisons that are only vaguely there, just so you can complain about them.

(I don't mean any maliciousness btw just saying how it looks to me - I enjoy your posts).

Jay makes Ben harder than Portuguese quadratic equations...

There scheming is funny !