I just wish the interfering Liz McDonald would wind her ruddy neck in and do the decent thing and leave Steve/Leanne alone with this whole baby thing.

Last night's scene where she had a go at Steve about 'her' grandchild was despicable. It was emotional blackmail at its worst. Steve got himself into this mess and, if everyone else can just learn to button their lips, Leanne & Nick can live happily ever after with their baby and Steve & Michelle can do the same with theirs.

Is Liz's obsession with her unborn grandchild a pointer to something deeper? She's almost getting ill over it. We've got two grandchildren but we never see them. So what? Is it really that important? It's the children you really care about, the grandchildren are just a bonus if you're lucky.

Somehow I don't think it's all going to end in hearts and flowers .. this is Soapland and nobody is EVER allowed to live happily ever after.

Liz's character was ruined the moment they had her gloat to Tracy about Amy being stuck in a fire just to get one over on her.

And Bev's acting has deteriorated vastly over the years.

I agree that Liz almost-gleefully saying 'Aymehhh's in thurrr' was the 'death moment' for the character.

Bev has been phoning in her performances for many years now. She just doesn't seem bothered, especially when you compare what she does now with her performances from the 90s. Was discussing this on a different thread recently, but 80s/90s Liz and the Liz of today are like two completely different characters. I don't blame Bev for this at all, it's the way that the character has been written over the past decade that's made the actress behave like this. Simon Gregson behaves in a similar way, he just plays his own lazy 'version' of Steve which is nothing like the character used to be up until Becky left in 2011.

I really like Bev and also like Liz but the character is close to empty and the actress seems to know that, hence her consistently noncommittal performances.

What's Liz had done to her face? She looks very different this time round. I thought she had been off with depression again but she looks like she may have had some work done.

Unfortunately it is in character for Liz. She is very proprietorial and selfish and will only see how SHE is being deprived of what she sees as HERS.

I agree though. Of course Grandparents love their Grandchildren and want to be part of their lives (all the fun without the work to use the old cliche) but at the end of the day, they don't have rights, it is up to the parents to work out what is best for the child and she needs to deal with that.

Of course there is an argument that a child should never be lied to about its parentage and Leanne's instincts that it will never work with the father and his family over the road so she should leave were probably correct. Steve and Liz will have feelings for the bab), will find it hard not to let it show so it is a time bomb waiting to go off and the more people deceived (like Gail believing she has a Grandchild coming) the worst it will be for the baby.

But Liz isn't thinking about that, she is just thinking about herself and that Gail will be getting the cuddles etc which she believes are rightfully hers. Never mind what the truth would do to Leanne, Michelle, Nick, the baby and even her own son who will probably have another breakdown if she keeps on at him the way she currently is doing.

This is only a recent incarnation of Liz, though.

For nearly 25 years she was the glamorous and feisty drudge who had spent most of her life under the thumb of her domineering husband while bringing up their two children. She frequently misjudged situations, made endless mistakes and had a reckless streak where men are concerned. These mistakes were always her fault and Liz accepted that - she never blamed others for her sort comings. She was never selfish, or downright nasty. She was a balanced and caring 'everywoman' for the majority of her time on the show. This has changed dramatically since she returned in 2013 when the character has done little more than moan and bitch to anyone who crosses her path and make the most of situations for her own gain.

Liz is almost unwatchable for me right now - she always has a hateful, angry expression on her face, and her voice is so nasty. She seems to be getting a bit obsessed about her lost grandchild - whatever possessed Steve to tell her about it - and I wish she'd butt out too. I can't see her keeping (grand)mum about it for long.

What the hell was she doing at Nick's with Gail, Leanne and the rest of them anyway?

Maybe she's been prescribed some strong medication for her condition and it's taking its toll. The good thing is she is stiil working and keeping herself occupied which is a great help to her. The producers are to be congratulated for this.

Never mind her, what about us? The ones who have to () look at her hatchet face and listen to her non-stop snarling

Generally I agree with you but my perception of Liz is very different to yours.

I agree with your analysis for the first few years but I think she began changing much earlier than this latest stint although it has been more pronounced.

I think she was always quite strong and actually wore the trousers in her relationship with Jim by virtue of the fact that he always suspected/knew that he loved her more than she loved him and actually, we're they to part, she'd move on more easily with men wanting to be with her and that she was capable of getting a job and making it on her own whereas without the Army and his family, he was somewhat lost and a mess.

Now at first these suspicions probably did result in him grinding her down but things changed after Katie's birth and death as she got stronger and more independent and from the reveal that she'd slept with his friend early in their marriage, it was clear she had the upper hand. I do also think that the Liz who became a gangster's moll with Frazer was selfish and vain and more like the Liz we have now than a heroic figure and that was quite early on. She may have admitted she made a mistake with him but she kept making them.

To me, i do see this Liz as a logical extension of that - a woman who sees her looks as her primary asset, who can't go more than a few weeks without a man, who will have her head turned easily and can't accept that she is getting older.

I also think that the twins were more scared of Liz than Jim right from the beginning. Yes, he might have hit them which they didn't like but Liz's anger or disappointment was what they really didn't want to have to deal with signifying that she was always the strongest one and they knew it.

To me, Liz started with the "i've spent my life looking after you three, now it's my time for me" very early on and to my eyes, that attitude has been the dominant one in her character ever since which is why I see her reaction to Leanne's pregnancy as believable.

I guess I've never really liked Liz very much (although i do like Bev Callard) so maybe focus on the negatives.

I do agree that the line about Amy being in the flats was bewildering and pretty much a character killing moment. Much as I dislike Liz, I would have found it impossible to believe that she would seem to use a child, any child let alone her own grandchild, possibly dying in a fire as a weapon to use against their Mother and enjoy doing so.

I don't know whether Callard was directed to deliver it in that way or whether it was her own decision but it was a mistake.

The line itself wasn't that bad so I don't think we can blame the writers. She could have delivered it in a heartbroken, distraught way conveyinh all she felt was fear and grief about Amy's fate rather than how it would affect Tracy.

She is basically an unlikeable character.

Won't be long before she's off work again with "depression".. glad she can afford to have time off with depression, most normal folk can't !

I am finding the way Steve and now Liz are constantly in the Platt and Leanne's orbit very annoying. It is so obviously plot driven, same as how Tina was suddenly always around for Peter to notice her and het employed as Simon's childminder at the start of the affair storyline.

The thing is, it is logical that Liz and Steve would know Leanne quite well because they are extended family through Amy and Simon. But, we've never seen any of that until a couple of weeks ago so it is jarring.

She's doing my nut in whining on about Leanne's baby. She keeps going on about how she'll miss out on having a baby to cling onto, but when Michelle drops hers she can nurse that ffs, so why's she's so demented over this one I really can't fathom, she's like a dog with a bone. Why doesn't she start fussing over the one Steve's having with his actual wife instead of fixating on Leanne's or has she got shiny object syndrome?

Sorry, but that comes across as either unkind or ignorant.

Having suffered with depression, and having been signed off for it, being able to 'afford' the time off doesn't come into it. Yes you carry on as long as possible, often because you are worried about money but when you get to a certain stage, you are too sick to be able to work and that is it. And worrying about money won't go away when signed off if not on full pay. Also worrying that you won't have a job to go back to but if bad enough, there is no choice other than to be signed off and sometimes even go into Hospital.

You might as well say "glad they can afford to have time off for a heart attack, most people can't".

Clinical Depression is not just feeling a bit down, upset, stressed which of course everybody experiences and force themselves to get through. It is an illness which is debilitating and beyond their control.

If Steve and Leanne are willing to go along with it then Liz has absolutely no right to get involved. Nick is aware the child isn't his at least so she has no real moral obligation either. She just has to leave them to it.

The other thing I dislike about this storyline is Michelle suddenly wanting to be besties with Leanne, although I do like that they at least have had Leanne acknowledge this weird sudden friendship coming from Michelle.

It's heartwarming to see the milk of human kindness still flows. 😁 😁 😁

Another reason Steve being the dad is awful. Nagging Liz. Give it a rest love. All this forcing the families to interact is also rather annoying. Why was Liz even there in the flat last night? At the end of the day it is Steve's decision and she needs to accept that. Michelle is pregnant although you wouldn't think it the way Liz is acting. Leave them all alone to sort out what they are going to do. They are all adults.

Great post kitkat. I really don't know how you have the patience sometimes.

Totally agree with your previous post about Liz being the dominant partner in her marriage to Jim. The fact that he did what many frustrated and resentful men do when they can't assert themselves intellectually or emotionally - ie, lashed out physically at her, doesn't change anything.

People might not like it but liz is right. Steve is gonna see leanne with the baby knowing he's the dad and it will get to him and liz will be the babies gran so of course she has a right and this being a soap it's a certainty the truth will come out. One thing im hoping doesn't happen is something cruel like michelle losing her baby. It wouldn't surprise me if corrie did that.

Elizabeth is being daft.

If the truth comes out she may not be seeing either of the babies.

I do agree that she is being realistic in that the truth will be bound to come out at some stage and the more people that have been deceived, the worse it will be for everybody.

Also, knowing what Steve is like with Amy, she probably is right that Steve won't be able to cope with seeing his baby being brought up across the road with no involvement.

But, it still isn't her decision and actually she doesn't have any rights as the Grandmother - not legally, not even for access even if Steve is acknowledged as the father.

I've overstated the drudge/under the thumb element of her character. That really wasn't the point I was trying to make, so I apologise. You're absolutely right that the power balance in Liz and Jim's relationship soon shifted, certainly by 1996, but prior to that she was under Jim's control. Again, that's not the point I was trying to highlight but it is still important in how the character developed.

Again, you're right that much of Liz post-96 was about her seeking to find her identity as an individual away from being wife and mother. While I agree that this has been the basis for the character for many years now, I still don't think that it would manifest itself through open nastiness. The biggest problem for me, and the point I was really trying to make, is that Liz was never outwardly nasty towards people. She never had the baseless nastiness and bitterness that seems to be the character's go to reaction to everything these days. Even at her low points, she was never the type to blame others for her own shortcomings. Similarly, she was never judgemental towards other characters either.

Again, I agree with you that there is an element of logical extension with what the character has become (looks her primary asset/man-eater/fading youth) but I've not seen any of the behaviours associated with that (nastinesses, bitterness, judgment/jealousy) on screen. It hasn't come from the character, it's just popped up from nowhere. Since 2013 she has been little more than a vacuous and bitter old trout. There has been zero character development on screen to show this change in her character, but that's the case for most characters on Corrie these days.

I could find it easily believable that a woman like Liz would grow bitter and sharp-tongued as she nears 60 but none of this has been explained through anything meaningful on screen.

Liz's stint since 2013 has been mostly crap. Ranging from mocking Steve about him wanting to go to college, yelling out of the Rovers window and refusing the ladder to be taken away, goading Tracy about Amy, and among other things. Truly awful character. The McDonalds are tired and need removing from the Rovers, and get in some likable, strong characters. Their personal family life is boring and just goes in circles, write a character who actually cares for the pub.

I won't quote the whole thing for brevity but i do see and agree with your point that Liz wasn't needlessly nasty until this last stint. Selfish yes, sometimes vengeful (i seem to remember her being quite gleeful when she told Jim she'd slept with his friend but people do behave badly as marriages implode) but not nasty just for the sake of it.

The trouble is, I don't think the writers see it as nasty. I'm positive we were meant to see Liz and Michelle ganging up on Steve with their 'teasing' as funny and empowering. Look at this, you'd think they'd hate each other, competing for his affections but actually Mother and daughter in Law get on and will band together to make sure Steve doesn't take advantage of them or get too big for his boots. Likewise, the line about Amy was probably supposed to be justified as her putting Tracy in her place.

But, it just comes across as mean.

However, i do think there were enough negative aspects to Liz's personality pretty much from the start for this development (getting bitter and a little desperate as she ages and loses her looks) to be logical to me.

But basically she is suffering as all the Corrie women have for several years of being written very badly with no depth and the middle aged ones have fared the worse.

Nail. On. Head.

My moaning is futile because it's just the way Corrie is these days, sadly