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Some labor party members want basic income introduced


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Old 03-01-2017, 15:00
paulschapman
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Pensioners are not expected to work for a living. So I fail to see the relevance to the points I was making.
and how long do you think that will last - I am 52 and really do not expect to retire as such - nor will pensions be worth much when you do get them

The study on the effect on desire to work was ended half way through the experiment due to lack of funding with the researchers declaring the experiment a success and collecting no more data on the effect on desire to work.
There was a study of the results made some years later.

Because it would be unfair. To fund the lifestyle choices of those already well off enough to choose not to work and those on high incomes who can afford to choose to work less hours. While leaving the masses still reliant on working full-time to make ends meet or to have an acceptable standard of living.
I refer you again to the changing face of employment that is being caused by automation, and the increased number of temporary roles - a situation which has been growing for over a decade now and will only get worse (or better depending on your point of view). There are currently 4m self-employed workers and they are not all well paid - many are on little more than the Minimum wage. Add to that zero-hour workers.
Not only that but it will be the lower paid low and semi-skilled jobs that do not pay much that will be hit the hardest - so let me ask you this - how would you deal with these given that the tax and benefit system is almost predicated on regular work.

The whole point of the UBI is that it is a floor under which income does not fall - giving people at least a minimum to live on - that covers your situation of say the secretarial temp who may find that they have a large gap between jobs.
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Old 03-01-2017, 15:13
LostFool
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If everyone gets the same basic income as a right, what's unfair about that? People on high incomes who don't need it will presumably be paying it back through tax.
The problem is defining how high an income someone is allowed to have before it is deemed that they "don't need it".
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Old 03-01-2017, 15:16
jjwales
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The problem is defining how high an income someone is allowed to have before it is deemed that they "don't need it".
Not really a problem. We already band incomes for tax purposes - that might just need a little adjustment.
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Old 03-01-2017, 15:37
Mark_Jones9
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If everyone gets the same basic income as a right, what's unfair about that? People on high incomes who don't need it will presumably be paying it back through tax.
Then it would be better having a taper on UBI like the Manitoba example and like Universal credit being introduced in the UK. As both free money and a higher marginal tax rate on income are disincentives to work. Offset in the case of the poor due to poverty and wanting an acceptable standard of living. Those on higher incomes are more likely to be enabled to work less or demotivated.
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Old 03-01-2017, 15:58
SULLA
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A great idea for those who have no intention of getting a job.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:09
Video Nasty
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A great idea for those who have no intention of getting a job.
What an infantile post.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:14
SULLA
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What an infantile post.
Thanks.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:22
LostFool
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What an infantile post.
Many true things are said by infants.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:52
SULLA
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Many true things are said by infants.
They tend to state the obvious
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:07
rusty123
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It might tick all the right boxes as far as utopian bubble dwelling fantasists like John McMarxist or Jezza Corbyn are concerned but in the real world where the dogs eat cats as opposed to marry them this "not exactly new" basic income idea will always remain a flawed one.

Being as it's not exactly a new idea the only point of interest as far as I'm concerned is whether or not its funding is part of the great half a trillion quid borrowing plan or whether it's yet another bolt on?
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:12
paulschapman
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It might tick all the right boxes as far as utopian bubble dwelling fantasists like John McMarxist or Jezza Corbyn are concerned but in the real world where the dogs eat cats as opposed to marry them this "not exactly new" basic income idea will always remain a flawed one.
Which would be fine but a UBI gets support from across the political divide and not just from the left wing.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:39
Tassium
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Which would be fine but a UBI gets support from across the political divide and not just from the left wing.
...those from across the divide who wish to control and dictate to people.

We keep seeing this common goal approach from the extremes of politics, they really are very similar indeed.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:40
rusty123
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Which would be fine but a UBI gets support from across the political divide and not just from the left wing.
Assuming the 'U' in your UBI acronym stands for universal (as in universal basic income) I've heard politicians of the "non left" debate minimum and living wage, never a universal one. Tax rates yes, wage no.

If I'm not applying an incorrect acronym you're gonna have to point me towards a couple of examples because I can't think of any let alone from sources that I'd consider mainstream.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:52
LostFool
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Which would be fine but a UBI gets support from across the political divide and not just from the left wing.
Can you point me to any Conservatives or Kippers who have publicly supported a universal basic income?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:50
Brigon
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Just to add to ^^^^

Before this happens there would need to be some fundamental changes in the housing market in the UK to bring down costs to a more manageable and consistent level. At the moment you would need to give a couple in Berkshire £10,000 a year just to pay the rent/mortgage - probably £15,000 in London. But maybe only £5,000 in north Wales. As the poster put above, if you already owned your own place then the additional money you would receive would really limit the incentive to work.

One thing you have to bare in mind is that this really will only work once the amount needed for a basic standard of living is a much smaller percentage of GDP per capita. I would save that less than 25% - so if the basic income was £15,000 a year then GDP per capita would need to be £60,000.

Demand and supply. If your not working and thus taking advantage of basic income, why do you need to live in Berkshire or London?
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Old 03-01-2017, 19:42
SULLA
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This man is suggesting that people who do not want to work should get paid the same as those who do work.
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Old 03-01-2017, 19:56
paulschapman
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...those from across the divide who wish to control and dictate to people.

We keep seeing this common goal approach from the extremes of politics, they really are very similar indeed.
then how do you account for people like myself - I am no supporter of Corbyn, Labour, socialism or communism and prefer smaller government. I've also voted Conservative for my whole life - only deviating to prevent a labour candidate.


Assuming the 'U' in your UBI acronym stands for universal (as in universal basic income) I've heard politicians of the "non left" debate minimum and living wage, never a universal one. Tax rates yes, wage no.

If I'm not applying an incorrect acronym you're gonna have to point me towards a couple of examples because I can't think of any let alone from sources that I'd consider mainstream.

Can you point me to any Conservatives or Kippers who have publicly supported a universal basic income?
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...income/375600/
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Old 03-01-2017, 20:47
rusty123
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then how do you account for people like myself - I am no supporter of Corbyn, Labour, socialism or communism and prefer smaller government. I've also voted Conservative for my whole life - only deviating to prevent a labour candidate.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...income/375600/
I think we're singing off different hymn sheets particularly with regard to how we're applying the word "universal".

I'd define a universal basic income as something everybody and his dog would be on by virtue of it having the word universal in it.
Unlike universal credit where it uses the definition in the more 'cosmic' sense rolling up all the little solar system benefits into one big universal one.

How are you defining it?

As for that link.. a conservative case for a minimum is not the same as a universal one.
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