That look on Poch's face towards the end was a carbon copy of what we used to see on AVB's. It was the look of "I have'nt got a clue what to do".

A very frustrating match. Yes we controlled the game, and had most of the possession but we seem to be predictable, don't have enough width, don't have enough intelligent passes or movement. And as ever, no plan B.

This is a game we should have won and although Rose and Dembele were excellent, other players such as Son and Eriksen had little impact with the latter appearing to shrug his shoulders through the game.

I'm worried about Bayer at "home" and Woolwich away...

To add, most of our corner-taking was dreadful today. I know it's not normally good but can someone teach a couple of the players that they need to get the ball a little over the first man...?

The game against City showed that we can do it and we can play at a high tempo, open teams up and score goals but we need to do it more often.

When the opposition just throw ten players behind the ball and charge at our players like headless chickens then we struggle.

I suppose it could be worse and we could be losing these games but it does get frustrating.

I'm also concerned about next weekend. They're in pretty good form at the moment and we're not exactly firing on all cylinders.

It's interesting because (a) it is an issue and (b) everyone seems to focus on the player/s of their choice; fwiw, it seems to me to be mostly a test of Poch as he steps up to the big time for the first time.

He has a proper top 4 squad, albeit embryonic in parts; he has to integrate the new players (inc. two strikers from lower leagues, both punts in their way) in these complicated systems as well as progress through the CL group stage, and maintain a top 4 campaign in the Premiership.

Of course, Poch didn't just go through the worst period of his managerial career as Guadiola has just done (no win in 6) nor has the team scored one goal in four Prem games - as Mourinho's team has done, but we are now one point behind last season (same opposition). I'm not sure when the league was tougher than it is this season.

Some would say the absence of our main striker is a factor, others the absence of Toby saw the first league goal conceded from open play ... whatever, it's a proper project at WHL, and it's pretty interesting watching the manager respond.

Apart from Monaco at 'home' - which is still our only real loss, and when he seemed to lose judgement from before the start, and it then got worse - Poch seems to be broadly responding well to the greater challenges.

When is Kane back? I think if you hang in there until then it'll be a good start to the season.

Next week, hopefully

50% chance for midweek apparently.

Been looking at some of the photos people took yesterday - some of them send shivers up your spine, it's becoming so real now ... click to enlarge..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv8D_f2WEAAgmYM.jpgrig

So all 4 teams above us cruise to victory away from home scoring for fun. Not looking forward to the week ahead. Is anything going to change?

Poch has said that Kane will only be on the bench, if fit.

It was interesting reading the media at the weekend and they were saying similar, in that is the difference between last season and this. This season instead of going at teams we tend to slow it down in the last third preferring to pass and probe to find a shooting opportunity. In short we are not stretching the opposition enough, so they are able to continually adjust, limiting the number of genuine goal scoring opportunities we create.

I think that's a fair assessment really. Thing is, I suppose it's not practical or possible to play at a high tempo all the time in every game so I suppose you have to wonder (and hope?) if this is part of the evolving plan for the team and the way we approach games ?.

Or I guess the other question is down to whether or not Poch works the team a bit too hard overall in fitness and they just aren't physically up to the tempo he also wants until later in the season where all the fitness starts to properly kick in ?

The problem is apart from the Man City and Stoke games we really havent played well at all. All our other league wins have been scraped by one goal. We struggled at home to beat Sunderland. We have played poorly in Europe and are out of the league cup. More so then just results its our poor all round play which has alarmed me most. If you factor in the terrible end to last season (no win in the last four games) then it highlights further that this has not happened overnight. Having a good defence will only get you so far. This will be a defining week for us.

It's just as well Jannsen like a penalty otherwise we'd be on Suicide Watch in this thread.

It'll come; it looks mostly like timing due to anxiety; jannsen can't even jump for a header right he's so keen - there before the ball. Dele can't time a run past his man, others into space. Just a little frenetic atm.

Currently one point off last season - and that's with the CL distraction. It'll come.

It seems like our season is going to hinge on Kane returning and bringing his shooting boots.

that sums up our problems in a nutshell for me, but we just keep pointing to our unbeaten record, goals conceded record and a comparison to last season's points total that almost certainly won't be enough for a Top 4 place this season.

Its incredible that despite putting all the pressure on him these last 2 seasons and overusing him to the point of exhaustion that we are in a position where our season pratically hangs on just his shoulders yet again. He was in poor form before the injury, it could take him a good few games just to get his match fitness and sharpness back. Is he magically going to start banging the goals in ? There is certainly no guarantee of that. Are the rest of the team going to suddenly start playing better because he is back in the side. Unlikely. Hope Poch has some answers.

Agreed. Do the players have no confidence in him ? Does Poch have faith in him ? He dropped him for the Man City game which was the last game we won. Or are the players just playing so poorly at the moment that it wouldnt matter who we have up front as they wont get any service.

Whatever answers Poch might have if you have a chairman who continually refuses to pay the going rate for a decent striker we are likely to continue to under achieve

Just been reading that he's expected back in full training on Thursday and "might" have a role on Sunday, so I imagine if all goes well, he'll be on the bench at least and probably get about 20 minutes or half an hour depending on how the game is going.

Of course if he scores the winner, everything will be forgotten

It wont happen but Eriksen should be dropped. I would go for:

Lloris
Walker
Dier
Vertonghen
Rose
Sissoko
Wanyama
Dembele
N'Koudou
Son
Alli

Poch is on the 10 man FIFA short list for Men's Coach of 2016 with Pep, Klopp and Ranieri, the managers of the top 3 Spanish clubs plus the national coaches for France, Portugal & Wales.

I don't know, we are toothless enough at the moment. Janssen may not be scoring but at least he does try to stretch a defence with some runs, even if no one gives him the ball. My fear is without a recognised striker, that we will pass the ball to death outside the opposition area.

Lloris (C); Walker, Dier, Vertonghen, Davies; Wanyama, Dembele; Sissoko, Eriksen, Dele; Son

No Toby then. Presume Sonny as main striker. No Lamela, either - phew.