and where have i said its not what they have always done ?

what i have said is that they are over-doing it these days and more and more it comes across as staged and fake

you avoided my question, do you really enjoy seeing people come on and telling all these sob stories to try and get the sympathy vote?

is that your idea of "fun" ?

I don't understand your point ... here are my points summarised for you:

- The show is being quoted widely as being "fun again" this year; that is, not taking itself so seriously

- The show has always been staged; complaints of staging, sob stories and joke acts date back to the first series

- Ratings for W2 are up week-on-week and year-on-year

- Saturday W2 this year nearly beat last year's final and every show from the last series

- The show's premiere weekend has timeshifted well

I consider all of the above points to be facts.

Your question to me is whether I enjoy sob stories? Meh, I don't really care. I cried at the woman who sang Redemption Song, and I wouldn't have if she hadn't have said she'd come out of an abusive relationship.

It's a story, a journey, I'm happy to go with it. I know the production is edited and staged, but frankly I just want to be entertained. This year, I'm more entertained than I have been since 2010 (Simon/Dannii/Cheryl/Louis, last before Simon left, Gary Barlow came). I've laughed harder and been moved more strongly.

The show has always been staged, and always included sob stories and joke acts. It's always been there. The difference between higher rated and lower rated series are the panel line up and the production. Many would argue both of those things are in the best states they've been since 2010, when ratings nearly hit 20 million for the final.

My opinion is just my opinion though, just as yours is.

This thread is about ratings being up year on year, week on week.

It's been completely 'staged' since 2004.

If there are any more shows as bad as last Saturday's the viewing figures will plummet.

it really isn't

its about one weekend being up on ratings from terrible figures last year

time will tell whether the same manipulative tosh will retain those viewers

Thread title is:- X Factor rises 1.5m viewers to 8.4m

You have twisted it away from the incontrovertible fact - that ratings are up year on year and week on week and almost beat last year's final on Saturday - to suit your negative agenda.

Of course time will tell. Time will tell if the sun rises tomorrow, time will tell if Donald Trump becomes President, time will tell if we're all turning into automatons powered by AI, time will always tell.

We're talking about NOW and right NOW the ratings are UP year on year and week on week, and MANY (not all) people are enjoying the show a lot more this year, RIGHT NOW.

You can't grasp that and frankly it's getting a bit embarrassing now.

Your only arguments to support yourself are your own subjective opinion and hypothetical forecasting into the future which isn't here yet.

PS The show was 'manipulative tosh' when it got 19.4 million viewers, it's always been manipulative tosh, but some people like that. Get over it.

people get tired of manipulative tosh when it becomes obvious thats all it is

if it makes you happy watching it tho then i suppose thats all that counts, i would prefer to see genuine talent rather than faked drama but whatever floats your boat

I don't care what I Iike or what you like in the context of this discussion about ratings: I'm talking about facts and figures. You're talking about subjective opinions and hypotheticals and using weak straw man arguments.

the discussion moved on to the reason behind the figures

as you say numbers are facts and therefore there isn't anything really to discuss about them without looking at the context behind the numbers

this is a discussion forum not a numerical archive, and there is a ratings thread in the UK TV forum for pure discussions on the numbers ...

The fact that you've been stripping out my main points when quoting me, says it all. Once again, straw man argument. You've tried to erase my valid arguments for why ratings are up year on year, week on week and nearly beat every show last year on Saturday, by selectively quoting and banging the same drum over and over again about how the show is too staged, when in reality it has been staged since its first series and people have always moaned about that, even when it was attracting 15 million viewers every weekend.

You are clearly unable to accept more people may be enjoying the show again as a result of changes to production, restoring vintage judges and Dermot. Because you aren't enjoying it, you refuse to accept others are. So you fall to hypotheticals, whitewashing/overlooking facts and stating your own subjective opinion over and over again.

i "strip out" walls of text because the original post is still there for all to read and quoting huge walls of text is messy

anyway this is getting tiresome

have a nice day ...

Oh you're off are you? Just in time to not address any of the main points I made... again. It's remarkable how you "strip out" all of the main points of my post, when you reply. Anyone would think you can't argue with what I'm actually saying, so focus on something minor you can grasp onto and retort to.

What an unstimulating debate. After all that we can conclude:

- Ratings are up year on year
- Ratings are up week on week (significantly)
- Saturday's show beat nearly every single episode last year, including the final
- You think the show is staged and don't like it very much
- You enjoy deploying straw man arguments

Thank you for the exciting and enriching discussion, where we all learned a lot.

I agree with this - production/editing does seem better this year. That's not to say I like hearing the sobstories etc. - I don't; but I definitely think the overall flow of the show is better this year.

I think this year has been shocking so far. I have only seen two decent acts over the first four show, and we have been riddled with sob stories and joke acts,

The show has always shown more jokes and sob stories than real talent (apart from in the 'downfall years' where it got all serious - which viewers didn't respond to, causing falling ratings). This from Day 1. It's entertainment and a family show at the end of the day, with a few star-quality people shining through the circus of silliness and structured emotion/sob stories.

Most viewers don't actually want wall-to-wall talent and serious focus on finding stars, in the auditions; when the show has gone down that route it's lost its charm of being funny, entertaining, at times emotional TV. Have a laugh foremost and find a star somehow a long the way, is the formula which works for this programme.

Is the fact most viewers prefer jokes and crying to great singers a shame? Possibly. Is it reality and did following that mantra produce the best ratings for the show? Yes. Has returning to that format this year improved ratings? Yes.

If by the live shows we don't have a good mix of talent then we have something to worry about. But it'll be no worse than the talent pool in the heyday series, a mix of good singers and a smattering of average-but-lovely people with the odd joke act like those gay chicken lads who viewers love to hate/divide opinion (cut from cloth of Wagner, Jedward, Rylan etc).

The auditions are meant to be funny and light hearted, with the odd emotional punch and a smattering of slam-dunk auditions. They've got that balance back this year and it seems to be working very well.

You may be right with some of your observations, but if there are anymore episodes as poor as last Saturday I think people will be turning off in their droves.

In the "glory" days there would be good episodes and not so good episodes like Saturdays... again it's nothing that new really. If anything a slightly 'bad' episode encourages viewers to try again next time and find (as they did Sunday) a great episode. For all its faults chicken gate on Saturday got a lot of publicity and some people loved it (not me, personally, but the hype is undeniable).

It's the overall production and drive underneath it all which counts and that's there this year. The panel, host, editing and production are on point which I think means more viewers will keep coming back than have done in previous years. Fewer viewers will give up even with the inevitable weaker ep here or there.

For me so far this year there's been 3 strong episodes and 1 weaker one. We'll see how this weekend goes.

I think I'm inclined to agree with James on this one. There's no denying that X Factor is primarily a reality TV entertainment show more than it's a talent show so why try to be something it's not? There's always The Voice if you're just looking for good singers.

Having said that, I do think they have overdone the sob stories and there seems to be an increase of those this year compared to previous years. I like the joke acts however, and I think they add to the comedy/entertainment of the show which balances the more serious acts well.

I don't get some people in these threads, why watch the show if you root against it so hard? There are tons of others.

I watched the show this week for the first time in years. It's better now they have ditched the trial by stadium but I don't think I will be watching again unless I absolutely have nothing better to do.

I'm glad they have ditched the auditions in front of a live audience. I much prefer it being held in the room. I am enjoying it a lot so far this year, I really like the panel especially Nicole who I find really funny.

The only people who have come crawling are the trolls apparently

why is wanting to see genuine talent rather than a bunch of sob stories and joke acts "trolling" ?

edit : oh and btw i have been a regular on these forums discussing this show for 5 years now, my position regarding whats good and bad about the show has been fairly consistent as well, so i am hardly "crawling out of the woodwork" unlike the fanbois who i have never seen on this forum before suddenly start posting because of one weeks good ratings ...

When it's a means of ridiculing the show, downplaying its ratings being up in every measure, and casting scorn on forum members who enjoy it being more lighthearted and not taking itself so seriously.

And when it neglects the fact that The X Factor had sob stories and joke acts from Series 1 Episode 1, and in the same frequency as now in the years it was pulling 15m viewers every week and 19m for the final.

You've been a 'regular' moaner, yes.

This from 2012, banging the same drum:


http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...5&postcount=11

Haven't you learned yet The X Factor is more about entertainment than being a singing contest, that it always has been and always will be? Going on and on about the fact it's not a serious talent contest must be exhausting, why don't you cut your losses and stop watching if it's not serious enough for you?