A very good post.

I think they said only 100 people complained.

There seem to be more people complaining about those who complained that actually complained to begin with.

So I'm going to complain about the people who are complaining about those who are complaining about people complaining.

Or something.

That sounds like witch talk to me. You wouldn't be from Salem by any chance?

What!

Where did I say this???



This argument doesn't stack up because, as far as I am aware, people don't watch soaps for sexual titillation so the comparison with pornography is a logical fallacy. I would not suggest you are a homophobe because you prefer to watch straight porn rather than gay porn; that would be absurd.

Soaps are supposed to reflect real life. They exist to entertain and to educate, and I would argue they have a duty to portray homosexual and heterosexual relationships equally. If you don't want to watch gay couples kissing, fine. But if that is the case I would suggest that maybe soaps aren't for you.



100 people complained, but THOUSANDS of people posted hateful messages on social media.

So according to you we should just ignore it and say nothing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NofsQdmL-mA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRguPqAiCD4

There'll always be homophobes out there. Good on ITV for showing it.

THOUSANDS? You would think they would have something better to do with their time.

Fortunately the other approx 45 million adults in the UK do.

I saw an interview with Daran Little who wrote Todd's coming out and he said it was a natural process after discussion with the actor, nothing was forced, and Bruno Langley agreed to it.

If only storylines on Corrie were planned so thoughtfully these days, instead everything is forced and plot driven with no character development. Sigh.

Not racism at all.

What???????

So now you're resorting to inventing imaginary quotes.

You've got me there

I should say that if some out there are complaining because they don't want to see kissing on a bed no matter what kind of couple it is, okay. It's the homophobes that are being completely unfair.

Bib.
If I don't want to watch, say, Eileen and Phelan in a protracted kissing scene, what does that make me.

Watching 2 people, including 2 people of the same sex as myself, kissing does not "do it" for me. It's not homophobia.

I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

Something that has gone unnoticed is that Billy kissed Todd on the lips in the Rovers earlier in the episode. What if someone was fine with the earlier kiss but didn't feel comfortable with the later scene ; would they also be homophobes? It does seem a bit lazy to say that anyone who says anything even remotely critical about the episode is a "homophobic bigot".

Nobody is saying that. The only people who are homophobic bigots are those who had a homophobic reaction to the kiss.

I didn't watch the episode but my guess as to why nobody is talking about the earlier kiss is this: there are different levels of tolerance. Some people generally tolerate homosexuality in the sense that if they can't see it or hear about it they're okay with it. Others don't tolerate it at all and go out of their way to be abusive to gay people. You then have another level of people who will tolerate it up until a certain point - like for example a quick peck on the lips might not annoy them but any hint of tongue and it suddenly becomes 'lewd'. One of my big bugbears with soaps is that gay people are, more often than not, presented as completely sexless and non-threatening, in order to appease this type of viewer. So when we get a scene of two men looking like they properly fancy each other and having an actual snog, that riles up the 'I don't want it shoved down my throat' brigade who are suddenly forced to see gay people as sexual creatures and not as caricatures.

And the thing is it's not an issue if someone has those same standards for ALL displays of on-screen affection - be it a straight couple, a gay couple or a lesbian couple - but if people are only bothered when it comes to more passionate same sex kissing, then yes, on some level you have to assume there is some homophobia in there even if they don't display it all the time.

In the case I mentioned it was specifically stated that the heterosexual scenes during the same episodes as Todd/Marcus hadn't been complained about and if one was acceptable, so was the other.

OFCOM have to review every complaint made, sometimes concluding there is no grounds quickly, sometimes launching a full investigation and they publish their findings. Granted some complaints will be more news worthy than others so be picked up for the front pages rather than just turning up in the Media section of the Broadsheets, but they will all be in the public arena.

I addition to that, any complaint which is upheld, there has to be a statement broadcast straight after an episode laying out what the complaint was, why OFCOM agreed and generally, including an apology from the programme maker.

I don't see that Corrie being investigated for 'explicit' sex scenes, whatever the sexuality of the participants, wouldn't be news worthy and at least make the DS pages and magazines like Inside Soap.

I might actually have a Google to investigate exactly what OFCOM have investigated as the info will be available, even if it didn't make national news.

Well, you did say this:


So if you didn't mean that we should ignore the complaints, what did you mean?

I'm curious to know with all the great posts that seem to have been written from the heart on this thread, have any minds been changed? Hopefully all this time and effort hasn't been an exercise in futility.

For sure, but as it stands, people are not used to scenes of two men passionately snogging in a pre-watershed programme, it's simply not part of mainstream culture yet. I would be loathe to label anyone uncomfortable with such scenes as homophobic bigots though. The same people mightn't have any problem with two men holding hands or kissing in the street. Some of the backlash against anyone saying they felt uncomfortable also sounds intolerant.

But why does it matter whether it should "do" something for you

You can watch two blokes kissing and easily feel nothing about it. You don't have to feel something to able to like two people of the same sex kissing on a soap

Ridiculous view

Whenever you ask people why they object to same sex kissing on television, they nearly always follow the same slippery slope argument of saying it doesn't "do" anything for them sexually, and therefore they don't want to see it. Why does it always have to come down to sex? I imagine Sigmund Freud would have a field day.

In any case soaps don't exist to arouse or titillate, so the argument is null and void.

Oh dear.
Because watching people, straight, gay or otherwise, kissing on screen for over half a minute is not very exciting.
Maybe it is for you.....

Yes that was my point

I was referring to those who complain solely when they see a gay kiss which I made perfectly clear in the post you replied to

I've seen plenty of pre-watershed shows which have featured two men snogging. Hollyoaks is on way before the watershed and frequently features same sex couples being intimate. So I don't think we can blame it on what is and what isn't mainstream.

I would say that if someone feels uncomfortable with watching gay men snogging, but not with straight people snogging, then there are some issues that they need to address with themselves and not expect the shows they're watching to change. In fact I'd say there's more of an argument for soaps like Corrie to continue to show these types of scenes, so people eventually learn that their complaints aren't making a difference and that if they find it uncomfortable they should either learn to cope or find their entertainment elsewhere.

Not RTFT so apologies for that.

I really cannot be bothered with snogging scenes, they make me feel a bit boaky, I don't like it in real life when people are slurping each others' faces in my eyeline. The gender/sexuality of the people snogging is completely irrelevant to me so I would like to make that clear.

Also, my son is gay and my daughter is bi so homophobia doesn't even come into it.

That scene imo was gratuitous. It went on for an inordinately long time and it wasn't necessary to enhance the plot or the characters.

I would have felt the same about it if any other characters had been involved, e.g. Kirk and Beth/Chesney and that weird drippy girl/Phelan and Eileen (DOUBLE BOAK).

Carry on as you were...

If you're referring to my argument, then you're completely off beam.
Re the BIBs, You're creating imaginary conversations again.