Nah the same arguments apply as 2014...

Why come out of the Union accounting for 48% of Scottish trade for 11% of Scottish trade.

What currency will use? Euro= Austerity. Own currency = Austerity and by austerity we mean real austerity, goodbye NHS, goodbye free University, goodbye central belt welfare state. D

Deficit estimated at 10% of GDP, EU wont even consider us for Euro membership until its 3% of GDP.

What do we do in the years after leaving the UK, before EU membership? What do we do if we are blocked from joining?

Defence?

Border controls with England?

Citizenship status of Scot living abroad and in rUK? Citizenship status of rUK resident in Scotland?

Just remember that sight of Salmond lost for words being booed by the audience because he wouldn't answer questions on currency. They better have answers this time.

With the Union flag there are a lot of negative connotations with loyalism, monarchy, militarism, empire and obviously the football thing. However to suggest the same is true of the Saltire is a bit extreme. You claim the Saltire is connected to Scottish independence, well yes, it's the Scottish national flag and naturally represents Scottish independence. You speak as if independence is a bad thing. Whats wrong with Scotland being independent?

A real "won't somebody please think of the children" type post.

All these questions have been answered and re-answered numerous times. That you don't like or want to hear the answers is your business.

Maybe there should just be no plan whatsoever and then our elected leaders can tell us they are "holding their cards close to their chest".

This seems an acceptable answer for those that continue to believe that Westminster is the competent choice of Government for Scotland.

What you seem to be implying is that people like Davidson (and to a lesser extent, you) are surrendering the Saltire to the independence movement instead of waving it proudly as a Scot. Is the Saltire at sporting events representative of the independence movement, of a proud symbol of being Scottish? If Davidson had sat on top of her tank waving a Saltire instead of a Union Flag, would it have made a better impression with the Scottish people, even if her masters in Westminster disaproved?

Nothing. Nothing at all. Except the vision of independence offered by the SNP and the various left wing factions who've hijacked the cause is rather unappealing and the tone and hostility of the 2014 referendum continues to reverberate in Scottish politics now. Plus I think Scotland functions just fine within the UK, arguably it needs a bolder more radical Government in Edinburgh one that puts wealth generation ahead of re-distribution.

I'm well aware of the negative connotations of the union flag, and I'm well aware the English flag for a long time had negative connotations of far right groups and football hooligans.

As I said its what happens when national emblems become tied to politics, nationalism and bigotry and like it or not the saltire is not immune to that anymore.

I don't know and tbh I never thought of this before. The fact it bothers YOU so much perhaps says it all. You can only be a proud Scot if you fly the saltire at every opportunity and similarly its your ilk that got bothered by the removal of the Saltire from supermarket packaging. I doubt I'd have even noticed TBH as when i buy produce like strawberries I look for the county of origin.

Here's a counter argument, Davidson was making a political statement for the TV news, the whole pitch of the Tories was that they would defend the union with every breath. A simple VISUAL message designed to gain cross party unionist support. It worked.

Now, please explain why Sturgeon didn't give Theresa May the courtesy of flying the union flag for her visit recently?

Why did Alex Salmond stand up behind David Cameron at Wimbledon and unfurl a Saltire?

So what currency will we use?

That's a jaundiced view of what the independence campaign actually was.


The only negative connotation that you can see in the Saltire is Scotland, and independence. I don't think either of these things are negative. Again you seem to think a campaign that was internationally recognised for being good natured, representing a benevolent vision for independence that rejected ethnic right wing nationalism, was somehow disturbing or negative-nationalism. The saltire is tied to a vision of Scotland that is open and wants to be something better and is open to others. I think it's actually an emblem of something positive, of Scotland's potential.

Sterling until we become independent.

"We will not take decisions until we are ready, we will not reveal our hand prematurely and we will not provide a running commentary on every twist and turn of the negotiations." © Theresa May

That's a complete cop-out and the situations aren't the same... we'll use sterling before and after the EU referendum.

In the event of another indyref, I hope you take that approach though

Theresa May will be phoning Ruth Davidson to tell her to go easy after her mauling of NHS England performance during FMQT yesterday.. She is more inept than Kezia Dugdale as leader of the opposition at Holyrood as if that wasn't bad enough. It has backfired spectacularly on the Tories because more Scots are finding out just how much better NHS Scotland's performance under an SNP government is compared to NHS England under a Tory one, with well researched articles like this one being shared on the internet.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/followi...il/#more-88215

his wife did that deed & there were loads of other flags there too

I somehow doubt my opinion will be a major factor in currency options

Merely highlighting the hypocrisy at play.

Sadly it's not just the Saltire, as St George's Cross has become too assosiated with the EDL and the Union Jack too assosiated with UKIP & Brexit. Sadly they've all been hijacked.

that was the SG position on currency in 2014, give a number of options & a preferred one to begin negotiations then see what happens but not reveal hand early --- would imo have ended up with a Scottish Pound pegged to £sterling --- doubt indyref2 position would not be to peg to £sterling, I'd peg to something else more stable - Norwegian Krone perhaps or even US$

Its not the same situation. The UK is not part of the Euro, therefore removing ourselves from the EU will have no effect other than perhaps on the exchange rate of Sterling but that largely depends on the markets.

So in reality the SNP still don't have answers to the questions that sunk Indyref 1. But I knew that and so does everyone else hence why the polls still haven't got remotely close to the threshold Sturgeon herself suggested.

After that?

Like the hypocrisy of SNP asking for Brexit plans, when there was no real plan for Scottish independence... see Barky99 post about revealing hands to early.

This was my experience of the referendum campaign, at Turriff Show in August 2014 talking to two elderly Better Together campaigners at the stall there, when a young Nat walks by and says "oh here we go English ***** telling us to stay in the UK". to which the one lady replied "I'm not English" and his response "doesn't change the fact your an English loving ****..."

Its just not acceptable and there were reports of such behaviour all over Scotland and you only have to look at the behaviour of Nats on forums to see this kind of behaviour in widespread in the Independence movement. Possibly because its become infested by the same hard left "campaigners" who usually lob obscenities at anyone even slightly right of them. It was there at just about every rally held by Jim Murphy. Its there in the response following the referendum to brand people who voted to stay in the UK cowardly, traitorous, to blame it on the old, the English "settlers" and so on. Rather than accept for all the supposed wishy washy loveliness the campaign failed because the Indy movement couldn't give a coherent vision of Scotland post independence and because a large number of Scots like the freedom, security and unity the UK brings.

Its there in your own response, you've just claimed the Saltire for independence and a wishy washy narrative of a Scotland that is open and inclusive (as long as your not English). Scotland is already open and inclusive, the UK is open and inclusive, we have some of the best race relations in the world. That's why so many people want to come here and the reality is Scotland is the least ethnically diverse part of the whole UK.

The assumption is believing in the UK is hating Scotland. It isn't an either/or you can love Scotland and the UK at the same time and millions of Scots do just that.

The Scottish Government's preferred option was the Euro. That was Salmond's great dream he was the loudest most vocal advocate of the Euro. By 2014 the SNP were savvy enough to know the Euro was an albatross, but not savvy enough to float a credible alternative and thus the entire campaign crumbled on one basic question.

Nothing has changed since 2014. Zarkov boldly told me the answers were out there, but you still can't actually produce any.

My experience, out on the campaign stalls most weekends for over a year leading up to the referendum. One horrible old bigot shouting in my face about the country being overrun by catholics and communists, a businessman taking a leaflet from one of the other campaigners, tearing it up then throwing it in my face as he walked by, and a woman trying to goad me and storming off when I kept smiling at the horrible character. However on the whole the majority of people who weren't interested in listening to anything we had to say would either say no and walk on, say no thanks whilst others were interested in having a conversation. Now if you look at the small number of isolated incidents of violence and aggression, attacks, death threats and arrests etc almost all came from a a few ultra-unionists idiots. On the whole the campaign was not as you describe and the two idiots you describe are no more representative of the Yes campaign than the nazi skinheads rioting on George Square are of your average no voter.



That's offensive and degrading nonsense. It shows how warped your outlook is. If you think the Scottish government is less open or welcoming to immigrants than any British government then you aren't able to accurately judge what is being said or done. Again your view of Scotland and of Britain is jaundiced.


Do they really? Do millions of Scots love the UK? I'm not sure that's true, they tolerate it at best but the demand for devolution, to remove Westminster control comes from the people of Scotland by a strong majority.

Preferred option was £sterling currency union - not what I'd have chosen but there were many options out there & still are http://bit.ly/2a6T0MU -- 9 options enough for you? & #1 is a non starter now

A 650 page blueprint towards independence was published. I must have missed the Brexit version.

That wasn't a plan... it was a dodgy sales brochure. For example did it include any details of the set up costs?