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SNP Watch
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Orri
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Phil 2804:
“And the context of the sketch was a left wing pro independence rally and a sketch aimed at mocking Ruth Davidson.”

Correct. But not at mocking her sexuality. Although one might think that if she actually wanted to marry she'd do so in Scotland. One also might thing that her being gay is, at times, being used for political point scoring without actually engaging in anything that might advance gay rights.
mimik1uk
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Correct. But not at mocking her sexuality. Although one might think that if she actually wanted to marry she'd do so in Scotland. One also might thing that her being gay is, at times, being used for political point scoring without actually engaging in anything that might advance gay rights.”

so its ok to call her a dyke ?
thms
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Phil 2804:
“And the context of the sketch was a left wing pro independence rally and a sketch aimed at mocking Ruth Davidson.”

The context of the show was the Glasgow Comedy Festival in March...

What the reviewer said...

http://www.chortle.co.uk/review/2016...itsherface?rss
Orri
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“so its ok to call her a dyke ?”

Depends on who's calling her it and in what kind of intonation. I probably couldn't given I'm only half a lesbian and a potential rapist to boot. As I'd already said, it's like the N word. And given it was a parody of a, not very good, rap battle the analogy is even more apt.

Seriously, in my mind calling her a Tory is a far greater insult.
Black Sheep
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by anndra_w:
“The question here is bigger than the usual suspects make out. Should any so called queer culture be reclaiming words like Dyke. I winced when I heard it because I didn't realise it was actually a queer performance however while the fact the word was being reclaimed I don't know that it should. Some gay people reclaim the word poof and I also cannot stand that. There's another queer/feminist group in Glasgow called TYCI which reclaims the C word, tuck your ....... In. Do we really need to be doing this? I'm sure there are many more knowledgable on this than I am but I think it's a grey area and the reality Davidson could have been offended by this depending on how she responds to that word. My thinking is that in context she most likely wouldn't but it was questionable and it was cringey.”

Exactly, the first rule of offence is that the persons receiving it gets to decide, not those giving it. That's the whole point of inclusion and so those saying people shouldn't be offended are completely wrong, it's up to Davidson to decide.
mimik1uk
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Depends on who's calling her it and in what kind of intonation. I probably couldn't given I'm only half a lesbian and a potential rapist to boot. As I'd already said, it's like the N word. And given it was a parody of a, not very good, rap battle the analogy is even more apt.

Seriously, in my mind calling her a Tory is a far greater insult.”

i wonder sometimes if you even read what you post

in your previous post you condoned calling her a dyke, accused her of using her sexuality for political purposes and not doing anything to support gay rights

i've really had enough of the tripe you post
Phil 2804
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Correct. But not at mocking her sexuality. Although one might think that if she actually wanted to marry she'd do so in Scotland. One also might thing that her being gay is, at times, being used for political point scoring without actually engaging in anything that might advance gay rights.”

Why, what difference does it make?
Phil 2804
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Depends on who's calling her it and in what kind of intonation. I probably couldn't given I'm only half a lesbian and a potential rapist to boot. As I'd already said, it's like the N word. And given it was a parody of a, not very good, rap battle the analogy is even more apt.

Seriously, in my mind calling her a Tory is a far greater insult.”

Possibly. But that shows the Nationalists mindset to a 'T' and perhaps explains why the party has resolutely plateaued in terms of support and worse the biggest benefactor is the Tories. Davidson wears the Tory badge with pride you are her doing her no harm by throwing it at her.
James2001
20-09-2016
I wonder how the SNPers on here would feel if it had been a Tory/Red Tory event making fun of Mhairi Black's sexuality? I have a feeling they wouldn't be running to defend it like they are here...
Orri
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“i wonder sometimes if you even read what you post

in your previous post you condoned calling her a dyke, accused her of using her sexuality for political purposes and not doing anything to support gay rights

i've really had enough of the tripe you post”

Did I? Pretty sure I've started by mentioning context and kept mentioning it.

In the context of a show from a troop of lesbian performers who are more genned up on the sexual politics of the situation and about a woman who has herself made joke about not only her own but another politicians sexuality then it seem so me that a parody of her proclaiming herself to be "Dykey D" is probably allowable. Just as a afro-origin rapper gets to call themselves or others n1gger. It's the same kind of circumstance.

Now I suggest you get on to these women and tell them their use of the word is unacceptable. http://www.dykesonbikes.org/ or even http://dykesonbikessussex.wixsite.com/home/the-club .
Orri
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by James2001:
“I wonder how the SNPers on here would feel if it had been a Tory/Red Tory event making fun of Mhairi Black's sexuality? I have a feeling they wouldn't be running to defend it like they are here...”

Wouldn't have to do anything about it. She's demonstrably capable of responding herself.
Black Sheep
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Did I? Pretty sure I've started by mentioning context and kept mentioning it.

In the context of a show from a troop of lesbian performers who are more genned up on the sexual politics of the situation and about a woman who has herself made joke about not only her own but another politicians sexuality then it seem so me that a parody of her proclaiming herself to be "Dykey D" is probably allowable. Just as a afro-origin rapper gets to call themselves or others n1gger. It's the same kind of circumstance.

Now I suggest you get on to these women and tell them their use of the word is unacceptable. http://www.dykesonbikes.org/ or even http://dykesonbikessussex.wixsite.com/home/the-club .”

I see you have very little grip on inclusion and diversity if you think those sites make it OK to call women Dykes.

Perhaps you need to attend some inclusion or diversity training if you accept those words and phrases in everyday speak.

As has been stated here several times, I wonder if you would be so brash about it if the FM was a lesbian and some Tory group called her Dykey? I'm sure you'd use the occasion to shout about the evil Tories from the rooftops.

I imagine you won't object to the term "Jock" either?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-shock-in-a-h/
zarkov
20-09-2016
http://www.scottishconservatives.com...e-brexit-work/

I see Murdo Fraser MSP is demanding the SNP have a plan outlining how Brexit will work. Seems par for the course after we recently had Ruth demanding the SNP sort out the failing health service in England. Perhaps Theresa May will be on the phone to Nicola insisting she sorts out the Grammar school policy as well.
Orri
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Black Sheep:
“I see you have very little grip on inclusion and diversity if you think those sites make it OK to call women Dykes.

Perhaps you need to attend some inclusion or diversity training if you accept those words and phrases in everyday speak.”

Perhaps you should consider a course in remedial English comprehension. I've said that it's not a word I would use. I've also said that it's a word used in certain lesbian circles and just like the N word has a set of rules laid down that mean it's rude if I use it but not if they do.

Those sites simply illustrate my point. So to repeat, learn to read and understand what you read. At the very least learn that simply posting links that you've not read or have but hope others won't isn't going to get you very far.
psy7ch
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Black Sheep:
“I see you have very little grip on inclusion and diversity if you think those sites make it OK to call women Dykes.

Perhaps you need to attend some inclusion or diversity training if you accept those words and phrases in everyday speak.

As has been stated here several times, I wonder if you would be so brash about it if the FM was a lesbian and some Tory group called her Dykey? I'm sure you'd use the occasion to shout about the evil Tories from the rooftops.

I imagine you won't object to the term "Jock" either?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-shock-in-a-h/”

I really wouldn't ever get upset about someone using the term jock. You have presented a bogus scenario though. It is a Scot complaining about a non Scot using a slang term for Scots.

Lets be clear about the 'dykey' reference. It was written and performed as a comedy parody by lesbians and it was a lesbian who tweeted that she found it funny. It was not a serious political article by a heterosexual with homophobic issues.

The level of faux outrage over this is astounding, opportunist but sadly predictable.
Black Sheep
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by psy7ch:
“I really wouldn't ever get upset about someone using the term jock. You have presented a bogus scenario though. It is a Scot complaining about a non Scot using a slang term for Scots.

Lets be clear about the 'dykey' reference. It was written and performed as a comedy parody by lesbians and it was a lesbian who tweeted that she found it funny. It was not a serious political article by a heterosexual with homophobic issues.

The level of faux outrage over this is astounding, opportunist but sadly predictable.”

You can claim faux outrage all day as far as I m concerned it doesn't change the fact that politicians finding the term acceptable brings it into the mainstream.

When little Jill comes in crying from school for being called a Dyke and their mum complains, well, what's to complain about, the term is now acceptable to the public.

You might believe its funny but folk have fought for years to remove such terms from every day life and others have been bullied to the point of suicide by them but hey, it's only lesbians after all.

The point, which you and your friends singularly fail to address here isn't the fact that a few lesbians like to call each other dykes, it's the fact that the majority of the population have now seen that it is acceptable and innocuous to label someone a Dyke and the SNP seem to be condoning it too.

Perhaps you might be having trouble with this concept?

Oh, and I do get annoyed if I'm called a Jock and will object to it on almost every occasion, except by a few very old English friends who use it deliberately on me. Have experience with it being used as a very derogatory phrase when I worked in London.
Black Sheep
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Orri:
“Perhaps you should consider a course in remedial English comprehension. I've said that it's not a word I would use. I've also said that it's a word used in certain lesbian circles and just like the N word has a set of rules laid down that mean it's rude if I use it but not if they do.

Those sites simply illustrate my point. So to repeat, learn to read and understand what you read. At the very least learn that simply posting links that you've not read or have but hope others won't isn't going to get you very far.”

And at the very least you should take the time to learn something about what causes offence to others and who is offended, it's certainly not the one giving the offence that decides.
errea
20-09-2016
Ruth turned out to be a total disappointment - I've never agreed with her policies but I thought she at least fought what she believed Scotland's interests are.

She was clearly believes that Scotland is better off inside the EU, but after the vote she practically gave up and accepted that Scotland would leave, even with almost two thirds of the electorate voting to stay - truely pitiful.

As for the 'dyke' rubbish - two of my friends are a lesbian couple and the word dyke has been used in conversation without any issue.

Originally Posted by zarkov:
“http://www.scottishconservatives.com...e-brexit-work/

I see Murdo Fraser MSP is demanding the SNP have a plan outlining how Brexit will work. Seems par for the course after we recently had Ruth demanding the SNP sort out the failing health service in England. Perhaps Theresa May will be on the phone to Nicola insisting she sorts out the Grammar school policy as well. ”

barky99
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by psy7ch:
“I really wouldn't ever get upset about someone using the term jock. You have presented a bogus scenario though. It is a Scot complaining about a non Scot using a slang term for Scots.

Lets be clear about the 'dykey' reference. It was written and performed as a comedy parody by lesbians and it was a lesbian who tweeted that she found it funny. It was not a serious political article by a heterosexual with homophobic issues.

The level of faux outrage over this is astounding, opportunist but sadly predictable.”

have just watched the stage performance that's got msm excited, explanation & vid in following link ... about 1 hour into vid is the split second that got latched on to http://bit.ly/2ddhZ29
Black Sheep
20-09-2016
As it was a UK vote to leave what do you think Ruth should have done?

One could easily just say of Nicola that she has been a disappointment because she isn't doing what the Scottish electorate asked in 2014, to remain as part of the UK and to work for the whole of the Scottish electorate, which includes the majority that wished to remain in the UK.

I also believe the UK is better off n the EU but it's difficult to fight democracy.

Originally Posted by errea:
“Ruth turned out to be a total disappointment - I've never agreed with her policies but I thought she at least fought what she believed Scotland's interests are.

She was clearly believes that Scotland is better off inside the EU, but after the vote she practically gave up and accepted that Scotland would leave, even with almost two thirds of the electorate voting to stay - truely pitiful.

As for the 'dyke' rubbish - two of my friends are a lesbian couple and the word dyke has been used in conversation without any issue.”

zarkov
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Black Sheep:
“You can claim faux outrage all day as far as I m concerned it doesn't change the fact that politicians finding the term acceptable brings it into the mainstream.

When little Jill comes in crying from school for being called a Dyke and their mum complains, well, what's to complain about, the term is now acceptable to the public.

You might believe its funny but folk have fought for years to remove such terms from every day life and others have been bullied to the point of suicide by them but hey, it's only lesbians after all.

The point, which you and your friends singularly fail to address here isn't the fact that a few lesbians like to call each other dykes, it's the fact that the majority of the population have now seen that it is acceptable and innocuous to label someone a Dyke and the SNP seem to be condoning it too.

Perhaps you might be having trouble with this concept?

Oh, and I do get annoyed if I'm called a Jock and will object to it on almost every occasion, except by a few very old English friends who use it deliberately on me. Have experience with it being used as a very derogatory phrase when I worked in London.”

Hyperbole.

You are really making a prize numpty of yourself with such outlandish claims. I suppose I and millions of others must be endorsing racism by enjoying the films of Quentin Tarantino and TV shows like The Wire?

It is about the context that something is said in. Much like Ruth's comments about "...short-haired, flat shoes, shovel-faced lesbians" could be construed as nasty homophobic stereotyping by someone with an axe to grind. It really is embarrassing stuff you are coming away with here.
CoolSharpHarp
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by errea:
“Ruth turned out to be a total disappointment - I've never agreed with her policies but I thought she at least fought what she believed Scotland's interests are.

She was clearly believes that Scotland is better off inside the EU, but after the vote she practically gave up and accepted that Scotland would leave, even with almost two thirds of the electorate voting to stay - truely pitiful.

As for the 'dyke' rubbish - two of my friends are a lesbian couple and the word dyke has been used in conversation without any issue.”

Shock horror... she accepted the democratic result of the EU referendum. A concept that'll never catch on with independence supporters... that is until a referendum result goes the way they want
psy7ch
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by Black Sheep:
“You can claim faux outrage all day as far as I m concerned it doesn't change the fact that politicians finding the term acceptable brings it into the mainstream.

When little Jill comes in crying from school for being called a Dyke and their mum complains, well, what's to complain about, the term is now acceptable to the public.

You might believe its funny but folk have fought for years to remove such terms from every day life and others have been bullied to the point of suicide by them but hey, it's only lesbians after all.

The point, which you and your friends singularly fail to address here isn't the fact that a few lesbians like to call each other dykes, it's the fact that the majority of the population have now seen that it is acceptable and innocuous to label someone a Dyke and the SNP seem to be condoning it too.

Perhaps you might be having trouble with this concept?

Oh, and I do get annoyed if I'm called a Jock and will object to it on almost every occasion, except by a few very old English friends who use it deliberately on me. Have experience with it being used as a very derogatory phrase when I worked in London.”

For goodness sake. It was in a parody rap not a serious insult. The performers were lesbian. Your offence about being called Jock does that extend to a Scot using the term Jock in a comedy show?
Daewos
20-09-2016
Originally Posted by James2001:
“I wonder how the SNPers on here would feel if it had been a Tory/Red Tory event making fun of Mhairi Black's sexuality? I have a feeling they wouldn't be running to defend it like they are here...”

Why should I, or others really care? Humour is subjective, personally I thought the skit as funny as a root canal without anaesthetic, but I would have no issue with others liking it. There are more important things to worry about.

And as Orri says, Mhairi Black is capable of looking after herself. As is Ruth Davidson.
errea
20-09-2016
She represents Scotland and the democratic result in Scotland was to stay. As an MSP, she's there to represent the interests of Scotland - especially those of her constituents which voted almost 75% to stay.

To respond directly to your question - I'm (almost) uninterested how a neighbouring country votes - that is their prerogative at 53% to leave

Originally Posted by CoolSharpHarp:
“Shock horror... she accepted the democratic result of the EU referendum. A concept that'll never catch on with independence supporters... that is until a referendum result goes the way they want ”

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