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Old 20-09-2016, 20:51
CoolSharpHarp
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She represents Scotland and the democratic result in Scotland was to stay. As an MSP, she there to represent the interests of Scotland - especially those of her constituents which voted almost 75% to stay.

People like Blacksheep are so jaded with anti-SNP rhetoric, it's actually sad.

To respond directly to your question - I'm (almost) uninterested how a neighbouring country votes - that is their prerogative at 53%
There was no Scottish result, as only the UK is a member of the EU and we were voting whether we wanted the UK to stay in the EU.
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Old 20-09-2016, 21:43
The infidel
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She represents Scotland and the democratic result in Scotland was to stay. As an MSP, she's there to represent the interests of Scotland - especially those of her constituents which voted almost 75% to stay.

To respond directly to your question - I'm (almost) uninterested how a neighbouring country votes - that is their prerogative at 53% to leave
Unfortunately you don't seem to be aware that there was no vote on EU membership in Scotland. To help you understand, for the purposes of the vote Scotland is not treated as separate country but part of the United Kingdom. The UK voted to leave therefor all parts of the UK voted to leave. Hope this helps.
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Old 20-09-2016, 21:50
zarkov
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There was no Scottish result, as only the UK is a member of the EU and we were voting whether we wanted the UK to stay in the EU.
AKA

**Get back in your box Scotland**

But hurrah The SNP only recently won an election specifically stating in their manifesto that Scotland being taken out of the EU by votes from elsewhere in the UK; constitutes a trigger for another independence referendum. I believe they called it a 'material change in circumstance' from the situation at the 2014 vote.

As your fellow unionist Black Sheep correctly stated a few posts back - "it's difficult to fight democracy"

Indeed.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:00
Impinger
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**Get back in your box Scotland**

But hurrah The SNP only recently won an election specifically stating in their manifesto that Scotland being taken out of the EU by votes from elsewhere in the UK; constitutes a trigger for another independence referendum. I believe they called it a 'material change in circumstance' from the situation at the 2014 vote.

As your fellow unionist Black Sheep correctly stated a few posts back - "it's difficult to fight democracy"

Indeed.
So where is it then? This 2nd referendum that is if what you're saying constitutes a trigger for another referendum. Surely the trigger has been pulled and it should be full steam ahead with this 2nd referendum. Yet.. erm.. interestingly enough.. no sight of it.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:02
CoolSharpHarp
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**Get back in your box Scotland**

But hurrah The SNP only recently won an election specifically stating in their manifesto that Scotland being taken out of the EU by votes from elsewhere in the UK; constitutes a trigger for another independence referendum. I believe they called it a 'material change in circumstance' from the situation at the 2014 vote.

As your fellow unionist Black Sheep correctly stated a few posts back - "it's difficult to fight democracy"

Indeed.
No idea why you are linking my post to "get back in your box"... unless you're just trying to wangle in a pro-indy cliche.

BTW the SNP manifesto didn't promise a referendum in the event of a brexit and they didn't get a majority... both things the SNP had going for them in 2011.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:10
zarkov
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So where is it then? This 2nd referendum that is if what you're saying constitutes a trigger for another referendum. Surely the trigger has been pulled and it should be full steam ahead with this 2nd referendum. Yet.. erm.. interestingly enough.. no sight of it.
I recommend you tell Ruth Davidson...she seems obsessed by it.

Early days. Indeed it may not happen for a good while yet seeing as the UK Government seems so very reluctant to trigger Article 50. So much for Cameron and Osborne's threat to start the process the day after the vote. An empty threat that has been noted by many in Scotland.

But don't fret. It's coming.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:16
zarkov
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No idea why you are linking my post to "get back in your box"... unless you're just trying to wangle in a pro-indy cliche.

BTW the SNP manifesto didn't promise a referendum in the event of a brexit and they didn't get a majority... both things the SNP had going for them in 2011.
All they need is votes in Parliament. They will get them.

The manifesto explicitly stated such a situation.

"it's difficult to fight democracy"
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:22
CoolSharpHarp
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All they need is votes in Parliament. They will get them.

The manifesto explicitly stated such a situation.

"it's difficult to fight democracy"
Just to repeat... the SNP manifesto didn't promise a referendum in the event of brexit.

Sturgeon said if the people want another referendum it's only democratic we have one... given the polls show we don't want another, then on her terms it would be undemocratic to hold one.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:26
The infidel
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So where is it then? This 2nd referendum that is if what you're saying constitutes a trigger for another referendum. Surely the trigger has been pulled and it should be full steam ahead with this 2nd referendum. Yet.. erm.. interestingly enough.. no sight of it.
If there is one thing that terrifies Sturgeon and Salmond it's 'independence'. They have done the 'math', they know it will be a complete disaster. However talk of it gives them a useful way of diverting attention from the disaster unfolding in the North Sea.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:29
CoolSharpHarp
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I recommend you tell Ruth Davidson...she seems obsessed by it.

Early days. Indeed it may not happen for a good while yet seeing as the UK Government seems so very reluctant to trigger Article 50. So much for Cameron and Osborne's threat to start the process the day after the vote. An empty threat that has been noted by many in Scotland.

But don't fret. It's coming.
I'm sure many also noted SNPs promise of an oil boom... luckily according to Sturgeon independence transcends oil, the economy etc. and it now independence at any cost.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:31
zarkov
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Just to repeat... the SNP manifesto didn't promise a referendum in the event of brexit.

Sturgeon said if the people want another referendum it's only democratic we have one... given the polls show we don't want another, then on her terms it would be undemocratic to hold one.
Page 25, SNP Manifesto 2016 -

http://www.snp.org/manifesto

"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:35
zarkov
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I'm sure many also noted SNPs promise of an oil boom... luckily according to Sturgeon independence transcends oil, the economy etc. and it now independence at any cost.
What happened to the £200 billion oil boom if we voted no?

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-cont...manoilboom.jpg
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:36
Phil 2804
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**Get back in your box Scotland**

But hurrah The SNP only recently won an election specifically stating in their manifesto that Scotland being taken out of the EU by votes from elsewhere in the UK; constitutes a trigger for another independence referendum. I believe they called it a 'material change in circumstance' from the situation at the 2014 vote.

As your fellow unionist Black Sheep correctly stated a few posts back - "it's difficult to fight democracy"

Indeed.

54% of Scots don't want another referendum. What is the point in holding a referendum the public don't want, and polls show opinion has barely changed since the last one. Surely your on a hiding for another defeat and if you lose two referendums in 4 years how long do you think it will take before you have another one?
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:37
CoolSharpHarp
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Page 25, SNP Manifesto 2016 -

http://www.snp.org/manifesto

"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
Thanks for proving my point... they want the right to hold a referendum, which isn't the same as saying they will hold a referendum.

Compare this with the clear pledge in the 2011 manifesto... "We will give Scots the opportunity to decide our nation’s future in an independence referendum".
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:38
CoolSharpHarp
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What happened to the £200 billion oil boom if we voted no?

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-cont...manoilboom.jpg
Yes as if I'll click on wings... lucky we've got a £9bn fiscal transfer then huh... pooling and sharing doing its job.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:53
zarkov
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Yes as if I'll click on wings... lucky we've got a £9bn fiscal transfer then huh... pooling and sharing doing its job.
Don't worry its only the front pages of unionist newspapers showing the promises of the UK Government at the time.

No hard feelings. I feel the same about the Mail, Express etc

Interesting that unionists on here were decrying prospects of slightly raising council tax in prosperous North East constituencies to pay for services in the central belt. Surely this would be pooling and sharing doing its job, no?
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:56
zarkov
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Thanks for proving my point... they want the right to hold a referendum, which isn't the same as saying they will hold a referendum.

Compare this with the clear pledge in the 2011 manifesto... "We will give Scots the opportunity to decide our nation’s future in an independence referendum".
Proving your point lol

It is going to happen.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:58
CoolSharpHarp
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Don't worry its only the front pages of unionist newspapers showing the promises of the UK Government at the time.

No hard feelings. I feel the same about the Mail, Express etc

Interesting that unionists on here were decrying prospects of slightly raising council tax in prosperous North East constituencies to pay for services in the central belt. Surely this would be pooling and sharing doing its job, no?
You'll have to ask those posters... possibly they have concerns about muddying the link between local taxes been raised and where they're spent.
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:00
CoolSharpHarp
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Proving your point lol

It is going to happen.
Yes proving my point that there was no promise of a referendum in their manifesto in the event of brexit.

I'll leave you to your crystal ball gazing...
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:04
zarkov
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Yes proving my point that there was no promise of a referendum in their manifesto in the event of brexit.

I'll leave you to your crystal ball gazing...
And I will leave you to your semantic interpretations....
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:08
CoolSharpHarp
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And I will leave you to your semantic interpretations....
It was the SNP that selected the wording... I'm sure if they wanted a firm referendum pledge, they would have worded it accordingly.
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:12
Phil 2804
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Don't worry its only the front pages of unionist newspapers showing the promises of the UK Government at the time.

No hard feelings. I feel the same about the Mail, Express etc

Interesting that unionists on here were decrying prospects of slightly raising council tax in prosperous North East constituencies to pay for services in the central belt. Surely this would be pooling and sharing doing its job, no?
Ahem, I also pointed out the SAME local authorities in the NE were facing a further £80 million in spending cuts thanks to the SNPs insistence on raiding local governments to pay for all their spending. Do you think its fair schools in Alex Salmond's constituency should face cuts while taxpayers there pay extra revenue to support services in Nicola Sturgeon's constituency?
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:15
zarkov
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It was the SNP that selected the wording... I'm sure if they wanted a firm referendum pledge, they would have worded it accordingly.
If you believe they won't follow through with the Scottish Parliament having "the right" to hold another referendum then that is up to you.

It is going to happen regardless
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:18
zarkov
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Ahem, I also pointed out the SAME local authorities in the NE were facing a further £80 million in spending cuts thanks to the SNPs insistence on raiding local governments to pay for all their spending. Do you think its fair schools in Alex Salmond's constituency should face cuts while taxpayers there pay extra revenue to support services in Nicola Sturgeon's constituency?
Pooling and sharing. You go where the need is greatest...
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Old 20-09-2016, 23:23
anndra_w
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Ahem, I also pointed out the SAME local authorities in the NE were facing a further £80 million in spending cuts thanks to the SNPs insistence on raiding local governments to pay for all their spending. Do you think its fair schools in Alex Salmond's constituency should face cuts while taxpayers there pay extra revenue to support services in Nicola Sturgeon's constituency?
If that area is wealthier and is able to support struggling areas like Glasgow. Glasgow is in a difficult situation, both it's wealthiest suburbs are in outlying council areas.
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