She's not an SNP member though. She's an Independent.

If you're going to throw wild allegations around, 'tis always best to have at least some of the facts right.

What would be enough is for her to be convicted of wrongdoing in a court. You know, the due process of this country which works on the premise that a person is innocent until proven guilty

Clearly that doesn't extend to this bloody forum though.

I was waiting for that defence to come along and quite frankly it doesn't hold water. I get that she is innocent until a Jury says otherwise and that she deserves to be treated as such until such time but I would take exception to the weak statement that she's not SNP.

She was elected to represent her constituency as an SNP politician and thats what she will remain in the eyes of the general public.

As I said previously she's done a worse job than Curran so far and that doesn't appear to be easy to do according to some SNP supporters.

Nor does it extend to this forum the other way around either, I remember the SNP supporters here hanging Carmichael before he was cleared of his main charge too.

people in Glass Houses and all

Sorry BS, it's not and was not a "defence" - it was and is a statement of fact.

She still made it through the SNP's screening process. I'm not sure they could have asked "have you had your fingers in the till", but she has made so many blunders in her short time in power, and lacks the intellectual capacity or basic common sense that is required. You struggle to imagine how the process worked. I strongly suspect she got in because of her family connections, and she wasn't given proper scrutiny.

Obviously, if found guilty, it's not the fault of the party or other SNP members or MPs, but it does mean that those who claim that the SNP is somehow different, and their activists are pure and superior, should give it a rest.

I anticipate some Olympic level Whataboutery going on in relation to this case, but that works both ways. Everyone who thinks 'innocent until proven guilty' had better hope they took that approach to Carmichael.

She was selected by the SNP and elected as an SNP candidate. She resigned the party whip when these allegations surfaced as an act of damage limitation.

Are those not the facts?

SNP Supporters sometimes show near Trump levels of denial.

You seem to have forgotten that Carmichael admitted lying and was found to be an unreliable witness by the judges, but got off on a technicality (something like a political lie is acceptable, but not a personal one). You should also bear in mind that the SNP is very quick to suspend people or withdraw the whip when enquiries are pending, but the Lib Dems and Conservatives don't do that. Luckily the Greens and SGP have never had that problem.

Alex Salmond admitted to lying about getting legal advice from the EU, but I don't remember a crowd-fund to take him to court.

IMO, it's politically savvy of the SNP to get their members to resign the Whip while under a police investigation, although not entirely in keeping with the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' ethos that seems to apply on a part-time basis.

I'm not entirely convinced that resigning the Whip is particularly significant when the MPs in question still hang out with the other SNP MPs. It's just a technicality, until I hear SNP officials actually condemn the individuals.

I don't think that McGarry should be obliged stand down at this stage. If it looks like there could be a lengthy trial that will distract her from her job, then perhaps she would do the noble thing. However, you can't get away from the fact that anyone who complained about Carmichael, but defends McGarry is being hypocritical.

Yes these are the facts she was selected by the SNP, she was elected as an SNP candidate, she is now an Independent MP, therefore your statement;


was (and is) factually incorrect.

He didn't make that statement but don't let the facts get in the way of your rant

Carmichael lied, then lied again on TV to cover up his original lies. he allowed an investigation at cost. He embarrassed a French diplomat, Scotlands First Minister, and brought his own office into disrepute. His position was way beyond untenable, yet he's still there.

Fact it may be but its a fact only made true by the fact she withdrew from the SNP whip. She is of course still SNP to the core and but for these charges would still be in the organisation.

Of course they are but thats what political allegiance is all about. The fact is he is as despicable as she is. Hopefully the truth will come out if she goes to trial, as Father ted used to say, the money was just resting in his account

Can you actually point to anyone defending McGarry?

Mea Culpa - I got the wrong fella, my apologies.

So thank you BS - you agree it is a fact that she is not an SNP member.

It's funny isn't it, the amount of glee and the crowdfunded court case with SNP supporters around Carmichael. Yet once it's one of their own caught up in scandal, any amount of excuses and whataboutery to avbsolve them.

Is that really the best defence you can muster?

I refer the member to the reply I gave in post #505

Didn't Carmichael admit his guilt?

First of all, it was not just SNP members supporting the case against Carmichael and (from memory) only one of the Orkney 4 was allied with the SNP. However, it suits some people to perpetuate the lie, I assume so they can continue to attack the SNP.

So far, no-one has defended McGarry for the alleged offence (if I'm wrong, perhaps you could link to the post), but have only stated the fact that she is not an SNP MP at the moment.

Didn't Alex Salmond admit he didn't get the legal advice he'd claimed during the referendum campaign?

What's worse - misleading the public about the knowing the legal consequences of independence, or misleading the public about knowing who leaked a real memo?

I'm not defending Carmichael, especially when he allowed an pointless investigation to take place, but many politicians have said much worse and not been hounded by the SNP. Either they were particularly upset that anyone might think they benefit from the Tories being in power, or they hated the idea of not getting a clean sweep of MPs. It's strange, but they seemed much more upset at being beaten by Labour and the Lib Dems to those seats than by the Tories.

Whatever propaganda regarding her allegiance you want to believe is entirely up to you. Most thinking folk know where her loyalties lie, she never chose deliberately to leave the SNP and become an independent.

I don't even really know if she is still a member of the SNP, do you?

Couldn't give a toss one way or another BS.

The fact is the fact, is the fact.