he is a politician, of course he lies

they all do

the important fact in the context of this discussion is that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in a court of law

if anything in a bizarre way he is actually more honest than most politicians as at least he admitted he lied when he was caught out

I'm not defending the lie, but the fact remains he was cleared by the court on the charges against him.

Lets not forget the biggest lie in Scottish Politics one that the SNP have been riding with glee, is that Labour's decision to campaign with the Tories in the Indyref made them "Red Tories", a lie and a campaign based on a lie that has all but wiped out Labour in Scotland, strengthened the Tories in England, and one that didn't have a shred of truth in it.

Its all the more sickening from a party that spent its first 4 years in Government cutting deals with the Tories to get its legislation and budgets through Hollyrood. Or do we like to forget that now?

At the General Election all the Unionist parties were almost wiped out..

Not actually true, half the country voted for one of the big three and the Tories held on just to about where they were, and we know what's happened since the GE, Tories making gains at the SNPs expense outside the Central Belt, so Red Tories was a one trick pony.

Didn't Ms Sturgeon take them from being a majority government to being a minority one?

Or am I wrong?

when you say the 'big' three is it because the have three MPs?

if you exclude the presiding officer there are 128 msps.

in the last session of parliament there were 64 snp msps (a dead heat)
in the new session of parliament there are 63 snp msps (a minority of two)

Why are you a great supporter, you claim to be extremely wealthy so your support is misguided to say the least. The SNP have blocked the Tories tax cuts for the highest earners; Tories in England will pay less tax than the highest earners in Scotland. In addition to this higher earners are going to be expected to pay more council tax and both of these policies have been met with criticism from the Tories who point out that in Scotland the wealthiest have to pay more than they do in the rest of the UK. So when you claim the SNP are providing an income tax cut for the wealthiest, it's not really true is it?

Of course you are right, otherwise you wouldn't say it. She did it by increasing the constituency vote by 1.1% to 46.5%, although she lost a couple of percent to the SGP in the regional vote. Meanwhile the 3 unionist parties dropped 0.4% in the constituencies and 1.8% in the regional vote.

Lucky the SGP is there to improve what the SNP is doing, rather than just sniping from the sidelines and supporting their masters in Westminster.

I've never claimed to be extremely wealthy....

Simple question... will a higher rate taxpayer in Scotland pay less income tax this year than last?

And once again Im not calling her guilty. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of some SNP supporters here who say she's not an SNP MP. Its like pretending she wasn't elected as one and went to Westminster as one.

Im sure you/they have their reasons....

That's not why she lost seats on the list. The small matter of the 10% swings direct from SNP to the Tories in the NE, Highlands and so on is the reason she lost seats on the list. That you know and yet like everything else SNP supporters don't like being reminded of you'll do anything to say it isn't true.

I don't think you can actually praise the SNP for doing very little on taxes other than follow the Tory tax plans. Apart from the Tories the SNP are the furthest to the right in taxation, Labour and the Greens both have more progressive views on tax.

What the SNP have done is nothing much.


Is that really raising taxes for higher earners? Is that 2 grand difference going to raise a huge income for Scotland?

As for Council tax


Even the Council tax rise can't be used by councils, its being reserved for Education.

Im sure someone moving here from England just might think they've moved to a Tory lite country.

Well they seem to be doing a good job of supporting the unionist parties recently. Which brings them into conflict with the hate sites out there which I see have turned on them.

Council Tax is not a tax on income, its a tax on property values, it therefore disproportionately hits areas with higher house prices, such as Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Edinburgh etc than it does areas with lower house prices, Glasgow say.

House prices are not a reflection of the wealth of the owner/occupiers merely a reflection of the supply and demand of the local housing market.

Whatever happened to the SNPs plans to replace CT with local income tax?

Its not just that £43,000 is not an extravagant salary, its what a secondary school teacher in Scotland can expect to earn with long service. The reason the Tories raised the threshold was down to the fact a lot of professionals, who weren't particularly wealthy were being hit by the 40% band and they were never intended to be hit by it.

What the SNP have done is not a tax on the wealthy, its a tax on middle income professionals.

Plus as we've discussed at length the the changes to council tax don't even benefit the local authorities, thus council tax is no longer a local tax set by your local council to support services in your area.

Taken with all the other centralising of public services the SNP must be the most centralising Government in Scottish history, that includes the centuries of Government from Westminster.

Now, now, they started the last session with 69 MSPs. They lost a few along the way, but for national elections purposes one always starts with the result of the previous national election and works the changes from there.

Yet again SNP supporters changing the goalposts to explain away facts they don't like.

I'm sure they must be ashamed of their paltry 60 odd MSPs and dreadful number of Westminster MPs too. Anyone tuned into Scottish politics will be well aware that they are at a low point in their history right now whilst support for Labour, Tories, and Lib Dems has never been higher than now in 2016.

Yep - that's sarcasm.

(Edit - They'll lose MPs at the next Westminster elections too. When your support is so high and you have so many MPs (and a history of having nowhere near that support in the past) then it can only go one way. Politics is cyclical.)

Indeed it is, the Tories remain the only party to exceed 50% of the vote in Scotland.

You can argue that the result of the 2016 election shows that SNP support has plateaued on a national level and is in decline in a number of areas. Highly likely from the swings in NE Scotland that in the next 5 years, Salmond, Swinney and Cunningham could all lose their seats. Hence Salmond's urgency to hold another referendum by 2018, he knows after that the SNP are unlikely have the numbers to get the bill through.

1. Look at the numbers, the overall loss of the SNP is almost the same as the gain by the SGP

2. I'm not an SNP supporter, but an SGP member. I just hate people giving false information as they support unionist parties.

I have no idea why you resume to see the plain truth of the SNP as evident in their policies. I don't think labour supporters are voting Tory in any significant numbers, more likely they are voting SNP in the hope that the SNP will continue the traditions of New Labour rather than move further to the left as they seem to be determined to.

Scotland has proved that it is no longer a left wing country, if indeed it ever was. The SNP aren't close to the Greens on policies, the Green tax policy is to the left of Labours.

I really do suggest that you do some comparisons of the parties policies before making sweeping statements that don't hold water on closer inspection.

There's more to it than that as you also have to count the Lib Dem collapse. The Greens will always be a small minority until they have some realistic policies.

Look at the numbers, the Lib Dem percentages didn't change and the SNP now have more MSPs than the Lib Dems

Possibly. Possibly not. They might well be at a high water level mark now. You have to look at the greater context though. They're current position is not a bad one at all considering their history.

For comparison. We have a UK Conservative government. If they held 56 out of 59 Westminster MPs in Scotland and lost a few of them in the next term do you think that would be a terrible result for them? I think they'd be delighted with that and the SNP (as you point out) don't have the same history. They've been a minority party for a lot of their history. I doubt they see their current position as disastrous.

All things could change though. That goes for everyone.

If we are holding the next election in 1952 then I'm sure the Tories popularity of over 50% will come in handy.

Also - if Salmond wants another referendum it will be because he thinks it can be won. Losing a 2nd referendum isn't in his interests.

(I'm not the SNP or in the SNP. I'm just trying to be rational. You are talking as if they are the Lib Dems or something. Yes they seem likely to lose some support given their current high standing. That's an obvious trajectory for any political party.)

NE Scotland Regional List change from 2011...

Tories. +13.9%
SNP -8.1
Labour -3.8
Lib Dem -0.8
Green +1

National percentages don't tell the story of an election decided in regions. Of you still want to deny the obvious that 2011 SNP Supporters defected to the Tories in the East I can start breaking it down constituency by constituency which is even more revealing.