It could equally be argued a lot of SNP votes were wasted on the regional list votes as it let in Tories and Labour MSPs who barely registered on the constituency votes. Hence we see frothing yoons like Prof Adam Tomkins ''winning'' a seat in Glasgow for the Tories despite being soundly rejected by the electorate.

Still, the fantasy of a great Tory revival with Ruthie challenging for FM keeps the more delusional hardcore unionists happy and feeling that they are still in control of the situation. Bless...

The point of the list was to balance out the FPTP constituency vote and ensure the parliament was balanced. Without it the SNP wouldn't have even got close to Government in 2007.

You may laugh if you want but Tory support in Scotland is currently running at the equivalent level of the SNP in 2003. I doubt very much we'll see a Tory administration anytime soon but you'd do well to remember that first minority SNP Government was kept in power with Tory support on a number of occasions. Should SNP support decline further at Hollyrood its highly likely they'll need Unionist party support again and what will the price of that be I wonder?

Hence why Salmond wants a referendum by 2018, after that its unlikely they'll have the numbers to get it through parliament.

Perhaps with language like yours you'd be better off sticking to the Nationalist hate sites out there.

Of course, it's not so long ago that the SNP were only winning MSP by the list vote, the FM springs to mind as one of those that only got into Holyrood through the lists at one time.

Thankfully your kind of nationalist rhetoric is practiced by a very few and most folk that advocate independence are much more inclusive of those that might not.

SNP got over 111,000 list votes in Glasgow....net result? zero. All wasted. That vote is more than the combined Labour / Tory / Lib Dem list vote combined which netted them 6 seats. It is foreseeable that SNP voters will not make the same mistake twice and give their second votes to other parties such as the Greens or Socialists. In such circumstances Holyrood would be a very lonely place for unionist politicians

Laughable. You regularly accuse people of being bigots etc, also using terms such as nats and separatists. Thankfully your kind of obsessed unionist waffle is being highlighted for the hypocritical nonsense it is.

I'm not talking about the terms you use merely the way you use your language which clearly indicates that you have no time for anyone with an opposing view or mindset to yours.

Which of course you continue in your attack above. I have never viewed myself as a unionist in the sense that you label folk but the more I read from posters width your mindset the more I don't fancy living in your future version of Scotland.

Something to think about.

But that's why the list is there, to balance out the parliament. A few years ago the SNP welcomed this system as it gained them more MPs, indeed it tipped the balance for them to form a Givernment in 2007. Now we see the SNP supporters moaning about lost votes. Even if they all voted SNP twice the system is weighted to not count them with the same weight and so the parliament wouldn't be full of SNP MSP in that case.

I imagine you don't think it's fair that other parties are represented in our Parliament?

Perhaps your posts are better off on one of the Indy hate sites.

This shambles makes me wonder what would have happened to new IT systems if we had gone independent this year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...hambles-desce/

Give it up. At no point ever have you come across as a reasonable poster on the subject of an independent Scotland. You're ridiculous hyperbole continues, accusing others of having closed minds while claiming you are being attacked. Like I said, laughable.

I am merely pointing out some of the facts regarding the voting system. I know you may not like what I said but how you can somehow construe it as abuse is rather puzzling. "Indy hate sites"? What an utterly bizarre statement

BIB - and you have?

You are just a poor version of woot whoo / Cappawire/ Auld Snoody

The only policy you can really try and accuse the SNP of being centre right on is income tax and those earning enough to be taxed at the highest level are so few that it would be nothing more than a symbolic move to set it at 50% that would raise very little and would run the risk of higher earners registering outside of Scotland. Now when the numbers at stake are so insignificant it can be argued that it might be worth doing simply to play up the SNP's centre left credentials but raising the tax threshold to 50% will never raise enough to do anything about austerity cuts. Scottish Labour suggestion that it could continues to show they lack credibility and the electorate can see their clear lack of integrity.


Fanciful wishful thinking on your part. Scotland has been a centre left leaning country for many years now and continues to be so. The SNP's income tax policy does not change the countries political values, be serious man!


I don't think you can lecture on making sweeping statements with your branding of Scotland and the SNP as centre right because of one policy. Look at the majority of the governments policies and look at SSAS and you'll find the government and the electorate remain centre left and no reasonable person would contest that.

Assuming all SNP supporters would be happy to back parties on the extreme left? Any evidence to support that. What happens if/when the tide turns in the constituency vote, then the SNP lose constituencies, which as you know already happened in a few seats at this election. Voters don't tend to punish a party in just one part of an election, its usually all or nothing.

Labours great failure in 2007 was that they didn't follow a "both votes Labour" message like the SNP have done and continue to do. Had they done so it's unlikely we'd have seen a Nationalist Government in 2007.

As my Dad said they must have the names and addresses of these farmers so is it beyond them to just write a cheque?

Every time the SNP have taken control or reformed a major public service its been an unmitigated disaster. Police Scotland probably still their "crowning" achievement, though this is pushing the medal positions.

How DARE Holyrood at least try to have a more representative system. I imagine they think it should be like Westminster where the SNP got 56 out of 59 seats with less than half of the popular vote- whereas Scottish Labour get 1 seat for the quarter of the vote they had. Sounds like a system more welcome to the SNP supporters out there.

Do some people just write stuff without checking, just to make the SNP look bad. The SNP is committed to PR and electoral reform and has been for a long time. To suggest otherwise shows either total ignorance of malevolence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10223302.html

We're not talking about party policy. Just the general attitude of Nat supporters.

Indeed. I have stated before that the Holyrood system is a far fairer system than the FPTP Westminster system. I just pointed out that if SNP voters chose to use their second votes for another pro Indy party, then Labour and Tories would be in even more of a mess than they are now.

Of course the usual suspects interpret this as somehow complaining against the system in place

What attitude specifically? One of the reasons I voted SNP in the last election was because they favour the AV/PR system rather than FPTP. I think it's a better system so that's part of my reasons for voting for the party that favours it. From memory the Lib Dems also favour it (or did years back when I considered voting for them)?

I was thinking about what I think you said earlier (apologies if I've misidentified you here) but it was about SNP voters moving to voting Tory. I can see that being the case in the NE as (forgive me if I'm wrong on this point) but I believe Aberdeen has traditionally had a larger Tory vote in the past and Labour have traditionally had their greatest support in the central belt, and then as you move around the NE further it's traditionally been Lib Dem a lot of the time. That's my general picture of things. Would you agree with that?

I think it's very regional though because where I am from the biggest movement of voters I've seen has been from Labour to Conservative and it's been for two reasons. Two quotes I've heard (same person - family member) - 'I voted for Blair but this new guy is too left wing for me' and 'I trust the Tories more on the union issue'. My family and friends vote all different ways but that's the biggest movement of voters I've witnessed in the last year (Lanarkshire). So from my perspective Labour's loss and the Conservative's gain is easily understandable but I expect this is a very regional issue.

For a lot of people Scottish politics now is about unionism and independence and some unionists see the Tories as a safer bet on that issue.

What is puzzling is that you can come here with exactly the same rhetoric as previously banned posters and actually believe you will get anywhere with your aggressive comments and out of date arguments.

As I said, I'm sure you feel more comfortable on the Indy hate sites where your outdated and overtly aggressive views go unchallenged.

The voting system in Scotland didn't worry the SNP when it served them, now that they are getting more votes than they used to the voting system suddenly bring us unelected politicians. Just a few years ago the current FM was a list MSP, an unelected politician in your current view.

Im sure independence is right around the corner with folk that want to persuade others in your aggressive style.

Centre right, centre left, red Tories, blue Tories, tartan Tories.

Almost certainly all the same in my eyes, parties filled with politicians that put their parties before almost anything else, tinkering with the same policies and claiming they are different from the rest when clearly the differences are minimal.

The obvious truth is that parties appeal to those that vote and no party that doesn't live in the middle will get elected.

While it's a nice proposition if they had voted Green for example in more numbers the SNP might have lost more seats.

The Greens have shown recently that they have no compulsion to automatically support the SNP on anything.

If anything the Greens are the radical element in the parliament and if the SNP want their votes they might have to actually enact some progressive policies, policies which then might lose them the middle class votes.

As I previously said, voting SNP twice doesn't actually mean it will make a huge difference as the system is weighted and so it wouldn't result in every MSP being SNP.

Oh and you were complaining about unelected politicians just a few posts ago concerning a Tory list MSP.

As far as I am aware I have never been personally aggressive with any poster on this forum. If the moderators disagree I'll no doubt be hitting the bricks....but that is their job, not yours. Also if I see someone posting about 'nats' and 'separatists' then I am pretty sure they are of a closed mind to independence. Is such terminology aggressive? Or is it only 'yoon' you have a problem with? It would seem ever so slightly hypocritical if that was the case.

It is also not my job to persuade anyone...the continuing shambolic display of governance from Westminster convinces more and more everyday.

I'm still puzzled about what you are on about with this Indy hate sites line you continue preaching. If you want to see some real bile go and check the comments sections below the online articles about Scotland in mainstream titles such as the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc. Certainly an eye opener.

No. I stated he got in because of the way the list vote worked. I'm fairly certain if most people that voted SNP with their second vote knew that it wasn't going to count for anything, they would have voted for another parties candidate to stop the Tories gaining a list seat.

Nicola sturgeon got in a few years ago for the very same reasons and I'm fairly certain that you didn't complain about that.

I have noted a prevalence for Nationalists since the last election to bemoan the list system while conveniently forgetting that it got the SNP a minority government in 2007. I have also noticed a glossing over of that minority government being propped up with Tory support on a whole raft of policies.

As I said, voting SNP twice isn't always the answer as the votes are weighted and if the FTP is SNP then your second vote has less of an effect. It would only work if everyone voted SNP twice.