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#601 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
As far as I am aware I have never been personally aggressive with any poster on this forum. If the moderators disagree I'll no doubt be hitting the bricks....but that is their job, not yours. Also if I see someone posting about 'nats' and 'separatists' then I am pretty sure they are of a closed mind to independence. Is such terminology aggressive? Or is it only 'yoon' you have a problem with? It would seem ever so slightly hypocritical if that was the case.
It is also not my job to persuade anyone...the continuing shambolic display of governance from Westminster convinces more and more everyday. I'm still puzzled about what you are on about with this Indy hate sites line you continue preaching. If you want to see some real bile go and check the comments sections below the online articles about Scotland in mainstream titles such as the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc. Certainly an eye opener. I've never had a closed mind to independence, i do have a particular view on it though and it might be difficult to comprehend for independence at all costs supporters. Quite simply, I'm prepared to consider independence if it benefits the population of Scotland economically. Any other argument is secondary to this for me as I firmly believe that cultural differences while they do exist are not so much different as to warrant Seperation by themselves. When someone proves to me that Scotland will really benefit from independence economically I will vote for it. So instead of ranting on about Labour or the Tories, prove to me that I will be better off being in an independent Scotland, because right now all I have is the official SNP Government GERS figures that clearly state I won't be. |
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#602 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 424
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Quote:
Nicola sturgeon got in a few years ago for the very same reasons and I'm fairly certain that you didn't complain about that.
I have noted a prevalence for Nationalists since the last election to bemoan the list system while conveniently forgetting that it got the SNP a minority government in 2007. I have also noticed a glossing over of that minority government being propped up with Tory support on a whole raft of policies. As I said, voting SNP twice isn't always the answer as the votes are weighted and if the FTP is SNP then your second vote has less of an effect. It would only work if everyone voted SNP twice. So to repeat - I made an observation that if some SNP voters used their second votes for other pro-indy parties; then the unionist parties would be in an even sorrier state than they currently are. |
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#603 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
See post #593....but then I see you already replied at post #597. It all makes this repeated allegation of moaning about the list system quite strange.
So to repeat - I made an observation that if some SNP voters used their second votes for other pro-indy parties; then the unionist parties would be in an even sorrier state than they currently are. If the Greens would vote with the SNP every time in parliament the pro Indy parties could do what they want but you seem to want more folk to vote for any pro Indy party instead which as evidenced by Green voting to date might not give your party the outcome you desire. |
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#604 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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I'd rather vote for almost anyone but this chancer.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/gal...tituency.23051 |
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#605 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 424
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Quote:
You don't have to be personally aggressive to be generally aggressive and the tone of your posts convey a general aggressiveness to anyone who disagrees with your view of Scottish politics.
I've never had a closed mind to independence, i do have a particular view on it though and it might be difficult to comprehend for independence at all costs supporters. Quite simply, I'm prepared to consider independence if it benefits the population of Scotland economically. Any other argument is secondary to this for me as I firmly believe that cultural differences while they do exist are not so much different as to warrant Seperation by themselves. When someone proves to me that Scotland will really benefit from independence economically I will vote for it. So instead of ranting on about Labour or the Tories, prove to me that I will be better off being in an independent Scotland, because right now all I have is the official SNP Government GERS figures that clearly state I won't be. Your passive aggressive posting style is so very transparent "I've never had a closed mind to independence, i do have a particular view on it though and it might be difficult to comprehend for independence at all costs supporters." i.e. You and other independence supporters are not quite smart enough to understand my point of view. It is possible you might be taken more seriously if you applied your concerns about posting styles to your fellow unionists. If I recall, it was their actions that caused the last thread to be closed. The rest of your post, is in my opinion, simply not backed up by any tangible evidence. In that I have never seen you post anything remotely positive about independence...or as you continue to term it - separation. So if my posting style continues to bother you, then you are more than welcome to add me to your ignore list. That is what it is for. Something to think about. |
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#606 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,126
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Quote:
I missed this little doozy as I replied to your other wrong assertions about my views on the list vote. I note you have just went ahead and repeated yourself anyway.
Your passive aggressive posting style is so very transparent "I've never had a closed mind to independence, i do have a particular view on it though and it might be difficult to comprehend for independence at all costs supporters." i.e. You and other independence supporters are not quite smart enough to understand my point of view. It is possible you might be taken more seriously if you applied your concerns about posting styles to your fellow unionists. If I recall, it was their actions that caused the last thread to be closed. The rest of your post, is in my opinion, simply not backed up by any tangible evidence. In that I have never seen you post anything remotely positive about independence...or as you continue to term it - separation. So if my posting style continues to bother you, then you are more than welcome to add me to your ignore list. That is what it is for. Something to think about. On an emotional level I doubt there's a Scot on the planet that doesn't relate to the images conjured up in Flower of Scotland, indeed the man who wrote it Roy Williamson is widely known to have been a keen supporter of independence. However the real world is not reflected in emotive folk songs sung primarily at sport events, the real world is more complicated and intertwined and I don't believe in the real world, financially, politically or socially that it would benefit Scots to become independent. On an economic level Scotland has a GDP per capita on a par with SE England, that's despite the economic and social basket case that is Glasgow, and Scotland must be unique among developed economies that its largest city is a net drain on its economy rather than the primary driver of growth. Please explain how independence can change that situation. when decades of Governments from London and Edinburgh have failed to do so? |
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#607 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
I missed this little doozy as I replied to your other wrong assertions about my views on the list vote. I note you have just went ahead and repeated yourself anyway.
Your passive aggressive posting style is so very transparent "I've never had a closed mind to independence, i do have a particular view on it though and it might be difficult to comprehend for independence at all costs supporters." i.e. You and other independence supporters are not quite smart enough to understand my point of view. It is possible you might be taken more seriously if you applied your concerns about posting styles to your fellow unionists. If I recall, it was their actions that caused the last thread to be closed. The rest of your post, is in my opinion, simply not backed up by any tangible evidence. In that I have never seen you post anything remotely positive about independence...or as you continue to term it - separation. So if my posting style continues to bother you, then you are more than welcome to add me to your ignore list. That is what it is for. Something to think about. Until then your obvious aggressiveness to anyone not supporting independence is there for all to see. Just voting SNP won't make a better Scotland you know. They have to have policies that make life better fo folk here and plans to do so. So far I see neither policies that differ from other parties or a real drive to be progressive, you have to do more than talk about it you know. As for not getting my post, it's simple, the Greens don't appear to be SNP lackeys. Some tough times ahead for SNP Tory lite policies that might require the Tories to vote for them to pass I imagine. |
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#608 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Scotland - near a whirly thing
Posts: 3,634
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Quote:
So instead of ranting on about Labour or the Tories, prove to me that I will be better off being in an independent Scotland, because right now all I have is the official SNP Government GERS figures that clearly state I won't be. |
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#609 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
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Quote:
GERS figures are only relevant to Scotland while in union & are well short of a full true picture of state of economy in Scotland .... and figures in GERS are not supplied by Scottish Government
The Scottish government themselves have said "GERS is the authoritative publication on Scotland's public finances". You can't simply discount the report now it doesn't suit your argument. |
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#610 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
GERS figures are only relevant to Scotland while in union & are well short of a full true picture of state of economy in Scotland .... and figures in GERS are not supplied by Scottish Government
Indeed, they based their White paper on it, something you believed at the time if I remember. However, if you can just point us all to the true state of the Scottish economy I'm sure you can demonstrate why we should vote for independence. |
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#611 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 424
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I must have missed this a couple of days ago. Great news for the steel industry.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/lo...urgeon-8934768 Good to see the Scottish Government taking the lead and playing a major role in ensuring that steel production continues in Scotland. Local Labour Councillor Paul Kelly commented - “This is a historic day for North Lanarkshire, with the re-opening of the Dalzell steelworks. We’re very grateful to the partnership work of North Lanarkshire Council, Liberty Street and the Scottish Government to make sure we kept the steel industry here in North Lanarkshire.” I'm sure all that want what is best for Scotland will echo Councillor Kelly's words. Well done to all involved
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#612 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
I must have missed this a couple of days ago. Great news for the steel industry.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/lo...urgeon-8934768 Good to see the Scottish Government taking the lead and playing a major role in ensuring that steel production continues in Scotland. Local Labour Councillor Paul Kelly commented - “This is a historic day for North Lanarkshire, with the re-opening of the Dalzell steelworks. We’re very grateful to the partnership work of North Lanarkshire Council, Liberty Street and the Scottish Government to make sure we kept the steel industry here in North Lanarkshire.” I'm sure all that want what is best for Scotland will echo Councillor Kelly's words. Well done to all involved ![]() I also noted in the same week that Grangemouth has received its first shipment of Shale Gas from Pennsylvania, the company have invested in 8 ships specifically for this task and the whole project has secured 10000 jobs in the country, interestingly the plant is accountable for 3% of Scottish GDP. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37474396 That's a good week for Scottish jobs. |
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#613 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
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Quote:
GERS figures are only relevant to Scotland while in union & are well short of a full true picture of state of economy in Scotland .... and figures in GERS are not supplied by Scottish Government
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#614 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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An interesting letter in the National that highlights the fact that one third of SNP supporters voted leave in the UK Brexit referendum.
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/...e-voters.23131 If one third of your membership voting doesn't want what the others do can you expect them to vote as you want them to in a second indyref? Can you expect them to vote for your party in future elections? |
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#615 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,258
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Quote:
An interesting letter in the National that highlights the fact that one third of SNP supporters voted leave in the UK Brexit referendum.
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/...e-voters.23131 If one third of your membership voting doesn't want what the others do can you expect them to vote as you want them to in a second indyref? Can you expect them to vote for your party in future elections? Firstly, he's taking polls as fact. People claim all sorts of allegiances in hindsight. Some people are more visible and poll better than others. Secondly, he's comparing Corbyn with other political leaders. Anyone who has watched politics for the last couple of years knows Corbyn has been getting a rougher ride than other political leaders have been getting due to the public infighting in his party. Would we measure the bowing etiquette of any other politician? I wouldn't set him as the benchmark for how others should be treated. If Corbyn didn't tie his shoelaces properly in the last year he'd be derided for it such is the level of opposition he has faced. Thirdly, if (stress the if) 1/3 of your party's voters voted to leave then that leaves another 2/3rds who either voted to remain or didn't vote.(I myself did not vote.) Fourthly, I don't think voting in or out of the EU and voting for or against independence runs on completely parallel lines. Both the SNP and those against them conflate the two when I don't think they should. There are similar arguments about sovereignty but they aren't entirely the same thing. There are many different reasons to favour one side or the other on both of them. The only truly factual thing you can say is that 62% of those voting in Scotland voted to remain in the EU but as we are part of the UK we got outvoted so will have to abide by that (my assumption). That's one of the very obvious costs of not being independent and being able to make your own decisions. You'll get outvoted on some issues and if people are happy with that then they know how it works. Perhaps if they see it in action it may bring them around more to the SNP's side on the independence issue. I expect that is the SNP's hope in the long term. If I was the SNP (which I'm not) then I'd be happy to sit tight and let events unfold. Fifthly, were the voters of any political party other than UKIP completely united on the issue of Brexit? Different opinions between voters in a party (especially a party carrying a large vote) on such an issue isn't surprising. Why is it a problem for the SNP but not the Tories, Labour or Lib Dems? Diversity of opinion isn't that surprising or damaging. Political parties mostly manage it in most issues. |
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#616 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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After being expelled from the Scottish Resistance this guy brings us a new group
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...y-help-8969300 Long may his comic relief last. |
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#617 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 27,530
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To be kicked out the Scottish Reistance, you must be really, really bad1
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#618 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 424
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Ruth Davidson accuses SNP MPs of deliberately trying to irritate English voters -
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...nglish-voters/ Yes Ruth, the party you represent would never stoop to such tactics in order to win votes - http://www.dng24.co.uk/salmond-cash-...rs-border-row/ |
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#619 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William
Posts: 22,293
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Quote:
After being expelled from the Scottish Resistance this guy brings us a new group
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...y-help-8969300 Long may his comic relief last. |
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#620 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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http://stv.tv/news/politics/1368842-...ampaign=buffer
Blacksheep, Ruthie is contradicting you again. Who does she think she is?
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#621 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,126
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Quote:
http://stv.tv/news/politics/1368842-...ampaign=buffer
Blacksheep, Ruthie is contradicting you again. Who does she think she is?Basically if you live in Aberdeen or Edinburgh earn around £44,000 a year and live in a 3 or 4 bedroom house you're going to be paying a heck of a lot more tax. |
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#622 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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Quote:
Most of it are attacks on middle income households in parts of the country with higher house prices where the new property and council tax rates will bite hardest.
Basically if you live in Aberdeen or Edinburgh earn around £44,000 a year and live in a 3 or 4 bedroom house you're going to be paying a heck of a lot more tax. |
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#623 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
Who earns £44,000 a year and stays in a 4 bedroom house in Aberdeen or Edinburgh? Doctors struggle to buy in Edinburgh.
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#624 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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Quote:
People that have had their houses for years perhaps?
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#625 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
Ruth Davidson accuses SNP MPs of deliberately trying to irritate English voters -
Yes Ruth, the party you represent would never stoop to such tactics in order to win votes - Quote:
“The SNP doesn’t speak for all of Scotland. And nor does it have the right to.”
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Who does she think she is?