DS Forums

 
 

SNP Watch


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15-10-2016, 11:58
PompeyBill
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,591

Incidentally, the most recent opinion poll shows that when you exclude the Don't Knows, there's still 55% people against independence, and 45% for. The initial anger at the EU referendum result seems to have calmed down, and people are back to thinking about what's better for Scotland, and not what's better for punishing the English.
Don't know about that poll, and where it is, but worth bearing in mind that a poll a couple of days ago said that 55% of people would be in favour of a referendum if Brexit actually happens (12% who are currently opposed would change their minds).
PompeyBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 15-10-2016, 12:07
david16
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,290
There isn't room for Dundee Airport to expand, and it's on a main rail line, and I think most locals would rather the money went on improving train services, especially opening up services to the local stations. However, they are a bit annoyed at the thought that it would be the Central Belt airports that would benefit from an expansion at Heathrow.

Of course, the SNP also claim to be full on environmentalists, so pushing for the expansion of any airport is a bit of a head-scratcher, but they seemed to get away with wanting to reduce airport duty, so their supporters can't be that fussed.
It's far quicker anyway to travel by train than by plane to the centre of London and back to/from most parts of Scotland. It's environmentally far cleaner by train than by plane too.

Kings Cross and Euston stations are far better placed than Heathrow, as they are already in the centre of London and Heathrow's not.

Plus coming from the west it's pointless to pass Edinburgh airport on the way to Haymarket or Waverley, only to travel all the way back west again to the airport by bus or tram.
david16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 12:21
thms
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,818
You cannot ignore the 1.6m scots who voted to remain in the EU - but you should ignore the 2m Scots who voted to remain in the UK.

That is the impression I get when I listen to an SNP politician.
how many of the two million who voted in the Scottish referendum could not vote in the EU referendum?
thms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 12:31
Impinger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
Did you know that only around 40% of the Scottish electorate voted for the UK to remain in the EU? The rest either voted 'no' or didn't vote at all.

Yet, to hear the SNP you'd think that the whole of the scottish electorate was out in force to nosh brussels.
Impinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 12:44
James2001
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 27,530
If you were to listen to the SNP, everyone in Scotland supports them and wants independence...
James2001 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 12:55
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
how many of the two million who voted in the Scottish referendum could not vote in the EU referendum?
Do you know? I think it might have been circa £285,000...
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:01
PompeyBill
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,591
Did you know that only around 40% of the Scottish electorate voted for the UK to remain in the EU? The rest either voted 'no' or didn't vote at all.

Yet, to hear the SNP you'd think that the whole of the scottish electorate was out in force to nosh brussels.
And only 40% of the English electorate, and 37% overall, voted for the UK to leave, and yet its happening, and Theresa May talks about the will of the electorate. Not pointing that out too? I mean, if you didn't, surely it would be highly hypocritical, right?

Its how elections and referendums work.
PompeyBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:02
smudges dad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William
Posts: 22,293
Do you know? I think it might have been circa £285,000...
296,280 fewer in the EU referendum
smudges dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:04
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
296,280 fewer in the EU referendum
Thanks... I wasn't too far off.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:12
CharlieClown
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 160
The SNP have set the precedent for this now and if the regions and islands of Scotland that vote No are adamant in their desire not to be ripped out the UK, why should they be prevented?

Or is it the age old SNP problem of only accepting democratic results you agree with?
The SNP have set no precedent. Scotland is still part of the UK as a result of the 2014 referendum. The central belt did not win independence from the rest of Scotland. Stop talking rubbish. There is no neverendum either, all unionist fantasy from selfish people who cannot accept the democratic process that has delivered an SNP government in Scotland. The same process that was divised by Labour and no one had a problem with, until now now that the SNP are in control the unionists don't like democracy any more, so resort to bizarre nonsense about Lothian being independent from Glasgow. Childish selfish drivel.
CharlieClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:13
PompeyBill
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,591
If you were to listen to the SNP, everyone in Scotland supports them and wants independence...
Hmmmm, let's see what Theresa May is saying about the 37% who voted to leave the EU;

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...te-remain-rump

The people gave their answer with emphatic clarity. So now it is up to the government not to question, quibble, or backslide on what we have been instructed to do, but to get on with the job.

Now, 37%. Going by Impinger's figures, around 40% in Scotland voted to stay. 40% is higher than 37%. Let's revisit those words again;

The people gave their answer with emphatic clarity. So now it is up to the government not to question, quibble, or backslide on what we have been instructed to do, but to get on with the job.

Seems to be talking for everybody there. The people gave their answer. Emphatic clarity. And yet, going by Impinger's, and your, "logic", she talks for less than Nicola Sturgeon does.

Reasons!
PompeyBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:47
CharlieClown
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 160
It's amazing how people interpret what others have said to make it prove their point, case in point in your reply.

Recently the SNP seem to be arguing against two things.

Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against our will and the SNP didn't get independence against the will of the Scottish people.

So the SNP choose to ignore one will because they think the second will might achieve their goal.
That's a bit of a dogs dinner, but I'm sure somewhere in your dome it makes sense.

Scots majority chose to remain in UK we remained in UK no ifs no buts.

Bigger majority of Scots chose to remain in EU, not happening.

SNP turning every stone to give majority of Scots what they want, First Minister has been all round Europe gathering information from EU member states. First Minister wants everything on the table including the option of another referendum on independence.

First Minister giving Scotland a choice, giving Scotland a voice. If you want a hard Brexit within the UK then vote for that if your given the chance.

I wanted the chance of another Scottish referendum if Scotland voted with a majority to remain in the EU. Hey you know what, lucky for me a party offered just that in a manifesto. Guess what they won. What did you vote for in the Holyrood election, did you lose? Should we pander to the minority to suite you?
CharlieClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 13:54
Varys
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 38
I certainly do believe Scotland is a nation but we are a devolved one and on devolved issues it seems we get swamped by SNP voters who then go on to complain that Westminster and England is the root of all Scottish problems.

As a country the UK has a voting system that doesn't include countries having a voting bloc and although I agree that at times what the majority of Scots want might not be exactly the same as the UK but most of the time it's almost the same.

If you have genuinely bases you change of mind over your stance on one single EU vote, a close one at that in the UK then where do you stand on all of the other issues in the SNPs failed plan that still stand.

Does this one instance outweigh your previous feeling on independence and if so is it great enough to ignore all of the other economic arguments for staying in the Union bearing in mind that we simply do not know what a Brexit will look like?
Let's take the NHS - something close to my heart as I work in NHS Scotland and have worked in NHS England. In my particular area of expertise, there is an extensive programme of backroom privatisation going on in England. Instead of working FOR the NHS, you find yourself working for xx PLC, who are contracted TO the NHS. I don't want that for Scotland (and believe me, neither do you), and it isn't happening here. Thanks to the SNP (and I'm not a supporter or member obviously), I don't think it ever will. There's an aspect of one devolved issue I think no one will complain about.

Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England has been told by Theresa May the service is getting no more money. Renewing Trident, at a cost of £205 billion however, is a given.

I suspect you will not argue that faced with funding WMD or the NHS, most Scots will instinctively side with nuclear weapons on the Clyde. I predict more and more of this type of attitude to the world from a government which is to the right of Attila The Hun and more and more Scottish stomachs turning.

My stance on the issues of independence has not changed. My stance on whether or not I wish to face them has. I wish the vote had gone the other way, it didn't and we are all going to have to face 'UK Independence' (and I disagree, I think we do know what Brexit will look like, and it ain't pretty).

Given that, I would rather face these issues with our priorities, decided by our people (and by that I mean the people who have chosen to live here, not the Caucasian population only).
Varys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:04
Varys
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 38
IMO, it's possible they were a No voter, but if that is the case, they didn't give it any thought, and only later were 'persuaded' by a Yes voter and didn't attempt any discussion of the pros and cons, just absorbed what they said. The sort of reasons given for 'switching' sound an awful lot like the reasons trotted out by Yes supporters who spend their time in the Independence echo chamber. They sound really clever, so long as no-one stops to think.
It certainly is (only) your opinion, as unless I were the the subject of an unusual hallucination event, it's rather more than possible.

The remainder of your post, I sympathise with. Before late June 2016, I might have said much the same.
Varys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:09
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
That's a bit of a dogs dinner, but I'm sure somewhere in your dome it makes sense.

Scots majority chose to remain in UK we remained in UK no ifs no buts.

Bigger majority of Scots chose to remain in EU, not happening.

SNP turning every stone to give majority of Scots what they want
, First Minister has been all round Europe gathering information from EU member states. First Minister wants everything on the table including the option of another referendum on independence.

First Minister giving Scotland a choice, giving Scotland a voice. If you want a hard Brexit within the UK then vote for that if your given the chance.

I wanted the chance of another Scottish referendum if Scotland voted with a majority to remain in the EU. Hey you know what, lucky for me a party offered just that in a manifesto. Guess what they won. What did you vote for in the Holyrood election, did you lose? Should we pander to the minority to suite you?
BIB - I'll keep on repeating this... we voted to keep the UK in the EU. That's it, what we want beyond this is just conjecture.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:38
CharlieClown
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 160
BIB - I'll keep on repeating this... we voted to keep the UK in the EU. That's it, what we want beyond this is just conjecture.
And I'll repeat I voted for the SNP manifesto, which I had every right to do and I backed the winner. Suck it up like I had to 2 years ago and stop with the selfish me me me attitude.
CharlieClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:40
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
Let's take the NHS - something close to my heart as I work in NHS Scotland and have worked in NHS England. In my particular area of expertise, there is an extensive programme of backroom privatisation going on in England. Instead of working FOR the NHS, you find yourself working for xx PLC, who are contracted TO the NHS. I don't want that for Scotland (and believe me, neither do you), and it isn't happening here. Thanks to the SNP (and I'm not a supporter or member obviously), I don't think it ever will. There's an aspect of one devolved issue I think no one will complain about.

Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England has been told by Theresa May the service is getting no more money. Renewing Trident, at a cost of £205 billion however, is a given.

I suspect you will not argue that faced with funding WMD or the NHS, most Scots will instinctively side with nuclear weapons on the Clyde. I predict more and more of this type of attitude to the world from a government which is to the right of Attila The Hun and more and more Scottish stomachs turning.

My stance on the issues of independence has not changed. My stance on whether or not I wish to face them has. I wish the vote had gone the other way, it didn't and we are all going to have to face 'UK Independence' (and I disagree, I think we do know what Brexit will look like, and it ain't pretty).

Given that, I would rather face these issues with our priorities, decided by our people (and by that I mean the people who have chosen to live here, not the Caucasian population only).
The NHS in Scotland has always been devolved and run differently and therefore this isn't just down to the SNP, but also previous Scottish Governments. In fact the SNP are not whiter than white on this subject anyway, for example... Shock figures show that Scotland's NHS spends £60m on nurses from private agencies

Trident is a red herring on the subject of the NHS, because if the money wasn't spent on Trident it would still remain within the defense budget to meet the necessary spend for NATO... in fact I think the SNP said they'd use the money on conventional weapons.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:41
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
And I'll repeat I voted for the SNP manifesto, which I had every right to do and I backed the winner. Suck it up like I had to 2 years ago and stop with the selfish me me me attitude.
What's that got to do my post... my comment was specifically about the part of your post I highlighted in bold.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:42
Impinger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
Clown by name, Clown by nature.
Impinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:47
PompeyBill
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,591
Clown by name, Clown by nature.
You really do run into these, don't you.

Definition of impinge;

have an effect or impact, especially a negative one.
PompeyBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:53
CharlieClown
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 160
What's that got to do my post... my comment was specifically about the part of your post I highlighted in bold.
The SNP manifesto says the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is "clear and sustained evidence" that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people - or if there is a "significant and material" change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.

And it says it will undertake new work, starting in the summer, to persuade people that independence offers the best future for the country.

That's what I voted for. It covers your point does it not?

Now that they have been returned to power via a democratic election. Should they abandon this part of the manifesto, is this your idea of democracy?
CharlieClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 14:54
Varys
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 38
The NHS in Scotland has always been devolved and run differently and therefore this isn't just down to the SNP, but also previous Scottish Governments. In fact the SNP are not whiter than white on this subject anyway, for example... Shock figures show that Scotland's NHS spends £60m on nurses from private agencies

Trident is a red herring on the subject of the NHS, because if the money wasn't spent on Trident it would still remain within the defense budget to meet the necessary spend for NATO... in fact I think the SNP said they'd use the money on conventional weapons.
I'm not supporting or defending the SNP! You make my point that Scottish governments have chosen to behave differently, SNP or otherwise. The defence budget versus healthcare is not set in stone, it's a matter of setting priorities. We might choose to prioritise healthcare over the ability to kill billions.

If the SNP wish to spend £205 billion on conventional weapons, they can put it to the people. A Scottish government can be voted in or out by Scottish voters. Have a go at voting out Theresa May's government if you don't like them spending it on nuclear weapons.
Varys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 15:00
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
The SNP manifesto says the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is "clear and sustained evidence" that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people - or if there is a "significant and material" change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.

And it says it will undertake new work, starting in the summer, to persuade people that independence offers the best future for the country.

That's what I voted for. It covers your point does it not?

Now that they have been returned to power via a democratic election. Should they abandon this part of the manifesto, is this your idea of democracy?
The manifesto is based on a fall premise that we are getting dragged out against our will and you've continued that with your statement "SNP turning every stone to give majority of Scots what they want".

The majority in Scotland wanted the UK to stay in the EU and that's not in any way shape or form within Sturgeon's power, however much she travels across Europe.

The UK is the member of the EU and we voted in the referendum as UK citizens.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 15:00
Impinger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
You really do run into these, don't you.

Definition of impinge;

have an effect or impact, especially a negative one.
Oh I'm well aware of the meaning of my moniker. Although it's not, as you seem to think, *especially* of a negative nature.
Impinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2016, 15:00
Mou Mou Land
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,592
Now that they have been returned to power via a democratic election. Should they abandon this part of the manifesto, is this your idea of democracy?
As she runs a minority government, what happens if she loses a vote in Holyrood about the referendum, or can she circumnavigate that somehow?
Mou Mou Land is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:39.