I see you've visited Portsmouth! A more rabid sh*thole you couldn't get. I moved out of there a while back, now live in a town just outside it. Its a lot nicer

As I said earlier (or elsewhere), I'd love to, but my life is down here now and has been from early days. Circumstances dictated (difficult family situation) and continue to now I've grown up, and have a family of my own, settled.

(To be fair, you might notice I don't take this thread very seriously, as I know people's minds are what they are, and there's no changing them, so no real meaningful discussion, its all just circular. Some people talk absolute cack, on both sides of the debate, but a chance at a real, proper 'debate' is nil on here, hence I take the attitude I do ).

The EU doesn't pay the deficits of member states, so that's a bit of a strange point. Most likely they'd give Scotland EEA membership and say you can join the EU when the budget deficit is under 3%.

This was exactly the direction of my post, the EU won't pay the Barnett formula to Scotland.

The SNP can't say they will use the Euro because Scots voters don't want it, the SNP actually have a lot in common with the UK government over the EU stance.

Honestly, would the EU admit a mini UK in the form of Scotland, who before they have even joined are stating they will opt out of certain elements? Are they so eager to swap a pain in the backside contributor for a pain in the backside recipient?

This is my whole argument with with a lot of independence supporters, they seem to think that every other nation and body is going to do exactly as they say because it's Scots saying it.

Actually I have been to Portsmouth a few times as I visit a former work colleague who was born and lived there until moving to Havant recently.

Must admit I think Portsmouth is OK especially around the historic dockyard and Gunwharf Quays although that's not representative of Portsmouth, i know.

Didn't fancy the Spinnaker Tower as I don't like heights!!

Sorry to learn you are a prisoner in England but there you go as you said in reply to a post by someone "suck it up". i think that's you wrote if memory serves.

Never mind you can air your nationalist zeal on here without having to risk life and limb.

Just because it is known that they would try remain in the European Union, which actually means joining the European Union not remaining, does not mean it would happen.


Talk that was from people that were not involved with the EU if I remember rightly, even then it was floated as an idea to see if the EU would agree to it, it was never confirmed to be an option. It was merely one of the desperate attempts to ignore the obvious.


An awareness doesn't mean that Scotland will be given favours no other member has been given, but that won't stop you lot making up fantasy situations.

That's the problem, Gunwharf and Old Portsmouth is fine, and that's what's used in the pics you see. I've been up the Spinnaker Tower, and you get a great view.

However, go into the city itself, and its a shell. Commercial Road, which was the main shopping area, is now basically filled with homeless people and beggars, clothes in doorways etc. Shops are getting less, it really looks run down. Living in the city too is so claustrophobic, no room to breathe, so condensed.

Southampton's so much nicer, and I'm risking a limb saying that if some friends see me typing that

If Scotland is set on joining the EU, the union has no future. Scotland could only join the EU if it left the UK, until it does it is not eligible to join.

It is funny seeing to call Theresa nationalistic, when you are so nationalistic you continue to make up nonsense as to why Scotland would be treated differently to everyone other nation simply because it is Scotland.

So in your head "no great obstacle" = automatic entry bypassing due process?

There is no great obstacle, the entry process is not an obstacle. Of course what you are doing here is quoting one person's opinion, someone who is not in a senior position and who does not have the power to over rule the others.

According to my friend people from Soton are Scummers, I think he called them, if I recall correctly. I don't think it was a term of endearment.

Its not, no

So that's a no then...

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1358976-...nd-joining-eu/
"I think this possibility has to exist, yeah. Because if Scotland decides to leave the UK, to be an independent state, and they decide to be part of the European Union I think there is no big obstacle to do that."
Makes no mention of changing any rules, he has just stated what the steps are to enter the EU; 1. Leave the uk, 2. be an independent state, 3. decide to join the EU.
That is the standard process.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...y-need-8343623
This is even more of a joke than the claim above. In fact the above is a certainty compared to this. Firstly it would involve the EU getting involved doing what they should they would not, getting involved with domestic affairs and dealing with constituent parts of member states, so it falls at this hurdle.
Secondly, there is zero chance Scotland would get recognised as the continuation of the UK, this is complete fantasy. There is already a precedent about this, which does not favour Scotland at all.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/20...eu-membership/
Vetos are not an issue that need to be worried about yet. They are a possibility, but to get to the veto stage Scotland would first have to show it is eligible to join, which is cannot do until it is actually Independent.

Perfect summation of Scotland there. The neighbours that think they can just do as they wish and screw everyone else.

The claim that Scotland could be fast tracked or gain automatic membership are personal assertions and wishes, saying Scotland would have to abide by the formal entry process is a fact. A fact that you cannot disprove.

Exceptions were made because of the financial crisis in Iceland, and even then Iceland was still not a member when it dropped it's bid to join last year, but apparently Scotland will do it so quick it will happen before Brexit? Your having a laugh.

Iceland wasn't given a fast-track because it wanted it, why would Scotland be given one for no other reason than the Government wanting one?

It is not an opinion, it is how the process works. I know it is the Scottish Nationalist to rewrite the truth when things don't suit your opinion, but the real world doesn't work that way.
Claiming Scotland could bypass the entry process is an opinion, and opinion that is shared by very few, saying Scotland would have to complete the entry process is not an opinion, it is the normal and has been confirmed numerous times.

Most people don't give a toss, we aren't most people.

If people did shut up, and let the process continue it would people like you that would be upset, because the obvious would happen and Scotland would not get automatic entry.
The theories like Scotland being given automatic entry or taking the UK's place only come about because people cannot shut up and accept reality, and instead make up desperate, far-fetched theories that support their opinion out of their desperation.

But that's what Scotland wants, and Scotland must get what it wants...

Earlier in the month in a speech at the Tory party conference. The Secretary of State for Scotland said..

http://www.scottishconservatives.com...to-conference/

"Earlier this year, we passed the Scotland Act 2016. This devolves new powers on tax and spending that will see Holyrood become the most powerful devolved parliament in the world."

I've just come across a very witty response to his claim

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2...thats-ok-then/

did you forget to link the "very witty" response or was that a typo and you meant "whiny repsonse" ?

I agree that the discussion about independence becomes circular, and nothing new is said, but IMO that's exactly why the Nationalists keep mentioning it. It gets people worked up, and so long as people are arguing about that, they aren't paying attention to how they are getting on in the day job.

So it's all very well for non-resident supporters of Scottish independence to treat it all as a big joke, but for those of us who live here, and care about the dwindling education standards, or who might want medical care in the coming years, then we'd like the party of Government to do some work, using the powers they've got.

If you are in favour of Scottish independence then you'll always be seen as anti-English, whether you are or not, because that's the expectation some people have and it plays well as a political tool to those it suits.

All sides do similar tricks that demean the actual voters but this is the one I find attributed to me personally whenever I comment here for long enough. I'd ask them to quote any post where I've ever been xenophobic (Clue - There are none because I'm not. You don't have to be anti-English to favour Scottish independence) but the narrow-minded folk who make these sort of claims usually just do a hit and run. They aren't actually interested in a response unless it says what they want it to.

I don't think I've ever started a thread on Scottish independence because, post 2014, I don't really think about it that much. I expect it to happen in future and am not really that enthused about getting worked up about every little mention it gets in the press every day. I'm happy to let the process eke out. I've seen many many more threads about the issue started by those against it than for it. Anyone can go and scan this political forum and look for themselves. So I find it funny when people talk about independence supporters keeping on going on about it. That's not my experience of things.

You forget that, whilst the likes of me don't live there, we have family who do. Most of my family are still up there and, besides, it doesn't mean we care about our country any less.

To be honest, your post in itself shows the problem.

but IMO that's exactly why the Nationalists keep mentioning it

Its not just the Nationalists, its on both sides (eg. Black Sheep has a slew of new posts every morning, I still know as you still see the 'hidden post' notification even when you have somebody on ignore). People don't realise their own prejudice.

The fact that some unionists get caught up in the squirrel actions of the SNP is one of the reasons it is such an effective way to avoid talking about the real issues that impact on our daily lives. It's a very old political tactic, and not exclusive to the SNP.

Scotland has around 15-16 times the populaton of Iceland and Germany has around 14 times the population of Scotland.

I read up about the allocation of MEPs to the European Parliament and apparently they don't strictly apportion them based on population and use something called ''degressive proportionality'' which appears to mean that smaller countries are given more than they might otherwise get via population size...which explains why Germany has 8.5 times what Iceland gets despite being some 200 and odd times bigger by population.

Obviously the bigger countries do have greater voting power whenever a vote can be split down national lines in terms of interests but I had to quibble with the word ''slightly''. Iceland is tiny by population. The metropolitan borough of Dudley has a similar population. That's how small it is.

The most any one member state can have is 96 (that excludes anybody doing presidential stints, so it's possible to have a few more if that's going on) and the least any one member state can have is 6.

So 6 to 96 is quite a big difference. It's just really odd to me that one of the reasons cited for backing Scottish independence is lack of representation at Westminster, yet there'd be even less representation in Brussels outside of the UK.