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Old 09-11-2016, 11:53
farmer bob
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Tartan Day in New York should be a hoot next year, Nicola, wee Eck & The Donald walking arm-in-arm down 5th Avenue.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:57
Black Sheep
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The SNP should keep fighting this. They shouldn't have to start paying VAT and Osborne should have allowed an exemption. So no, not SNP's fault. We shouldn't have to alter policy in Scotland to dance to the tune of London. Pathetic. I guess it makes them feel like they've still got an empire when they play games like that.
So despite being told their actions would result in VAT for the Police they still went ahead and did it and you claim that this is due to the Empire.

Surely if your told that then you would assess the consequences and weigh up whether your reforms are worth it and if they are then proceed.

This is squarely the fault of the SNP.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:16
Orri
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So despite being warned that the plan to centralise Scotland's Police forces would result in it losing VAT exemption, the SNP went ahead with those changes which have resulted in Police Scotland not having VAT exemption.
Yet somehow this is Osborne's fault?

Not only were they advised it would do this, they were also given advise on how to make changes to the plans in order to make it VAT exempt by adding elements of local funding to the plans, but this went ignored in favour of pressing ahead with the original plans.

The fault for this lies with the SNP only, they were warned multiple times about this and still went ahead with it.
But we are talking about the SNP, and supporters like yourself, that will always look to blame someone else even if the SNP is enitrely to blame for the situation.
When someone is making up the rules to suit themselves then any argument against a devolved parliament that the rules can't be changes is simply a political decision. If the Treasury can change the list of exemptions and refuse to do so it's because they don't want Holyrood to take a decision that they don't like.

As I said "Them's the rules" isn't an argument. Even children eventually suss that out and demand explanations. Obviously a parent can default to saying they're the adult and it's not up for debate. Not sure how that helps a child develop negotiation skills that will help them in later life though.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:20
Orri
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“There is no legitimate reason for taking this funding away from Scotland’s 999 services. We know that the UK government has the ability to exempt Scottish emergency services from VAT if only they choose to do so.”

Even the title of the article shows the SNP are calling out Westminster on their punative measure.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:39
woodrow
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Tartan Day in New York should be a hoot next year, Nicola, wee Eck & The Donald walking arm-in-arm down 5th Avenue.
Wee Eck won't be there as he is, even as we speak, on a plane to the Antarctic to live. Well he better be because he promised he would on C4 not that long ago. I'll try to find the clip. found it 44.30 in.
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Old 09-11-2016, 13:11
tiggertiny
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Sturgeon backs Clinton?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...win-1-4279553?

Are these the statements of a self styled progressive?
Leaving aside Obama's ill advised comments about the EU referendum leading political figures usually keep their noses out of another country's elections at least until it's over so Sturgeon's comments are also ill-advised perhaps.

Although as she isn't a politician of any significance it probably won't matter anyway.

It is at least good to know that Scotland is in such a good place she can spend so much time on anything other than governing the place.
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Old 09-11-2016, 13:13
farmer bob
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Wee Eck won't be there as he is, even as we speak, on a plane to the Antarctic to live. Well he better be because he promised he would on C4 not that long ago. I'll try to find the clip. found it 44.30 in.
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Old 09-11-2016, 13:20
Black Sheep
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When someone is making up the rules to suit themselves then any argument against a devolved parliament that the rules can't be changes is simply a political decision. If the Treasury can change the list of exemptions and refuse to do so it's because they don't want Holyrood to take a decision that they don't like.

As I said "Them's the rules" isn't an argument. Even children eventually suss that out and demand explanations. Obviously a parent can default to saying they're the adult and it's not up for debate. Not sure how that helps a child develop negotiation skills that will help them in later life though.
The basic premise that this isnt the SNPs fault is wrong though as they knew the rules before they went ahead with their plans, so they included it in their plans.

Perhaps they should have got the rules changed before they did it?
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Old 09-11-2016, 14:16
Orri
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The basic premise that this isnt the SNPs fault is wrong though as they knew the rules before they went ahead with their plans, so they included it in their plans.

Perhaps they should have got the rules changed before they did it?
Do you think the Government should change the rules to exempt Scotland's emergency services or should Holyrood be forced to give money to local councils who may, or may not, then pass them on to those services? What happened to the economies of scale argument used in opposition to independence?
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Old 09-11-2016, 14:30
Black Sheep
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Do you think the Government should change the rules to exempt Scotland's emergency services or should Holyrood be forced to give money to local councils who may, or may not, then pass them on to those services? What happened to the economies of scale argument used in opposition to independence?
Do you think the Government took this into account when planning to amalgamate Forces into a National Force after receiving advice that VAT would be affected.

http://unison-scotland.blogspot.co.u...-thickens.html

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/archive/l...mofInformation

Now, indeed it would be nice to have the Scottish Forces exempt from VAT but to try and shift the blame to Westminster is plainly wrong.

The SG knew what would happen and still went ahead with it which indicates to me that it was considered at the time.

Of course now they want to blame Westminster for their own failings.
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Old 09-11-2016, 14:33
James_Wensley
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Will Trump let Sturgeon in?

Does he have to? She not a real leader after all
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Old 09-11-2016, 14:35
FusionFury
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Nicola Surgeon is going down. She is literally falling apart. She has failed on her desire to take Scotland away from the UK union and now is basically redundant getting paid for not much.. Time to go, love.

Trump will destroy her after her awful comments about him she has treated him with distain.
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Old 09-11-2016, 14:59
smudges dad
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Will Trump let Sturgeon in?

Does he have to? She not a real leader after all
Nicola Surgeon is going down. She is literally falling apart. She has failed on her desire to take Scotland away from the UK union and now is basically redundant getting paid for not much.. Time to go, love.

Trump will destroy her after her awful comments about him she has treated him with distain.
Even Black Sheep doesn't drag the debate down to these levels. At least he argues his points, repeatedly, even when he's wrong. Using insults like these is just pathetic debating technique.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:11
anndra_w
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So despite being told their actions would result in VAT for the Police they still went ahead and did it and you claim that this is due to the Empire.
No you've claimed it's due to the empire I'm stating it's due to the Tories playing power games and trying to wield power over the SNP for no sensible reason.

Surely if your told that then you would assess the consequences and weigh up whether your reforms are worth it and if they are then proceed.
I don't think any good government would allow the petty actions of the UK Government to force them to give up or change their policies just because the UK has chosen to be deliberately obstructive. The SNP is right to make a fuss and do everything they can to have the rules changed to accommodate Scotland's new police force.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:22
The infidel
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Wee Eck won't be there as he is, even as we speak, on a plane to the Antarctic to live. Well he better be because he promised he would on C4 not that long ago. I'll try to find the clip. found it 44.30 in.
Those clowns Sturgeon and Salmond were so insulting and abusive of Trump. This was obviously before he was elected though and when they thought is was safe and fashionable to do so. Trump is a global industrialist who would have done great things in Scotland but why would he want to deal with Sturgeon now !?
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:26
Black Sheep
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No you've claimed it's due to the empire I'm stating it's due to the Tories playing power games and trying to wield power over the SNP for no sensible reason.



I don't think any good government would allow the petty actions of the UK Government to force them to give up or change their policies just because the UK has chosen to be deliberately obstructive. The SNP is right to make a fuss and do everything they can to have the rules changed to accommodate Scotland's new police force.
Except it wasn't the Tories playing power games, I'm sure those VAT rules existed before 2010.

If you bothered to read the links provided then you would know that the SNP made the changes knowing that VAT wouldn't be exempt and therefore it mustn't have figured that much in their plans at the time.

Now, we can all agree that it would be beneficial for the rules to be changed but to say this was all a Tory plot is frankly stupid.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:26
anndra_w
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Those clowns Sturgeon and Salmond were so insulting and abusive of Trump. This was obviously before he was elected though and when they thought is was safe and fashionable to do so. Trump is a global industrialist who would have done great things in Scotland but why would he want to deal with Sturgeon now !?
And why would Sturgeon choose to alienate her country by dealing with Trump? The creature deserves to be insulted.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:27
jmclaugh
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I'm stating it's due to the Tories playing power games and trying to wield power over the SNP for no sensible reason.

I don't think any good government would allow the petty actions of the UK Government to force them to give up or change their policies just because the UK has chosen to be deliberately obstructive. The SNP is right to make a fuss and do everything they can to have the rules changed to accommodate Scotland's new police force.
The applicable VAT rules have not changed since April 2000 so your claim about the Tories is incorrect and the Scottish government knew about the rules before they made changes to the Scottish emergency services.

There is of course nothing wrong with looking to have the rules changed but the loss of money is one that lies entirely at the door of the Scottish government and to say otherwise is duplicitous politics.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:27
anndra_w
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Except it wasn't the Tories playing power games, I'm sure those VAT rules existed before 2010.

If you bothered to read the links provided then you would know that the SNP made the changes knowing that VAT wouldn't be exempt and therefore it mustn't have figured that much in their plans at the time.

Now, we can all agree that it would be beneficial for the rules to be changed but to say this was all a Tory plot is frankly stupid.
No the situation changed and the Tories refused to adapt the rules, for no sensible reason. Get angry at London for once, it'll do you good!
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:29
CoolSharpHarp
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The applicable VAT rules have not changed since April 2000 so your claim about the Tories is incorrect and the Scottish government knew about the rules before they made changes to the Scottish emergency services.

There is of course nothing wrong with looking to have the rules changed but the loss of money is one that lies entirely at the door of the Scottish government and to say otherwise is duplicitous politics.
Usual SNP tactic of grudge building... they where told in advance what would happen and how to avoid it, but chose to ignore this advice. Squarely their fault...
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:37
Black Sheep
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No the situation changed and the Tories refused to adapt the rules, for no sensible reason. Get angry at London for once, it'll do you good!
The rules existed, the SNP asked and were told and then, AFTER taking the extra cost into consideration still thought it was a good plan.

Who is there to get angry at?
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:38
SmoggyTheTowny
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No the situation changed and the Tories refused to adapt the rules, for no sensible reason. Get angry at London for once, it'll do you good!
There was no sensible reason to change the rules! The Scottish Government once again sticking their fingers in their ears and pressing on with things only to complain about it later is not a sensible reason to change them.

The Scottish Government knew for years that their plans would have VAT implications and willingly ignored it. They had plenty of chances to make alterations so it complied with the VAT exemption criteria but refused to do so.

Their reasons for doing this have become apparent with this complaint, it is just another thing they can use as a tool to create tension against Westminster in Scotland.
I get angry at London enough, perhaps you should get angry at Holyrood for the first time.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:39
Black Sheep
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And why would Sturgeon choose to alienate her country by dealing with Trump? The creature deserves to be insulted.
Quite sad really as Trump has connections to Scotland that would definitely be economically beneficial and better for Scotland. Sturgeon could have thought about this possibility before opening her mouth.
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:49
lizbet
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Tartan Day in New York should be a hoot next year, Nicola, wee Eck & The Donald walking arm-in-arm down 5th Avenue.
..

meanwhile in Aberdeenshire people are wondering if we will get a bigger runway at Aberdeen Airport should the President ever visit his north east golf course in Air Force one
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Old 09-11-2016, 15:51
anndra_w
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Quite sad really as Trump has connections to Scotland that would definitely be economically beneficial and better for Scotland. Sturgeon could have thought about this possibility before opening her mouth.
It's bad enough that Salmond had dealings with him in the past. To be honest though, wight the SNP's cosiness to business I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line the tone softens, at which point I expect you to be complaining about that as well.
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