DS Forums

 
 

SNP Watch


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-11-2016, 20:49
Orri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotlandshire
Posts: 9,078
Great post, they could have had 4 police forces and still saved even more money.
Or Westminster could play the game and exempt the unitary body thus saving the most money. Deliberately hampering the cash efficiency of Scotland's police force because you don't like the choices a devolved administration is making isn't the kind of petty minded jobsworth action that a party of law and order should be indulging in. Especially as at the end of the day the government could simply up the equipment budgets by Vat for every exempted authority an remove the exemption for no overall difference to its finances. If VAT had been devolved then this would be a non issue.
Orri is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 09-11-2016, 21:00
The infidel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,047
Yes, he could, but what can of worms would that open? Other organisations could claim to be on a similar footing to them (through the courts even) and cost the Revenue billions as opposed to the piddling millions involved. It's a no brainer and a perfect example of the parochial and divisive politics the SNP practice. They were well warned and ignored the implications. This is another instance of the SNP thinking that because that's what they want everyone will do their bidding (A bit like how EU will do as their told)*. End of story.

*As that German comedian once said when asked his opinion of Scots during an interview at the Edinburgh Festival " Aw you've got to love them, they think they're special, but they're not. God bless them"
Ha ha, I had to laugh at Sturgeons cringworthy congrats message to Donald Trump even after all her disgraceful abuse of him. She said she hoped he would represent all Americans, yeh, like she represents all Scottish people (as long as you a die-hard nationalist or EU remoaner)
The infidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:09
Robert_Ste
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 24
Or Westminster could play the game and exempt the unitary body thus saving the most money. Deliberately hampering the cash efficiency of Scotland's police force because you don't like the choices a devolved administration is making isn't the kind of petty minded jobsworth action that a party of law and order should be indulging in. Especially as at the end of the day the government could simply up the equipment budgets by Vat for every exempted authority an remove the exemption for no overall difference to its finances. If VAT had been devolved then this would be a non issue.
Spot on
Robert_Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:13
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
Or Westminster could play the game and exempt the unitary body thus saving the most money. Deliberately hampering the cash efficiency of Scotland's police force because you don't like the choices a devolved administration is making isn't the kind of petty minded jobsworth action that a party of law and order should be indulging in. Especially as at the end of the day the government could simply up the equipment budgets by Vat for every exempted authority an remove the exemption for no overall difference to its finances. If VAT had been devolved then this would be a non issue.
But as you have already admitted, the SNP considered all of this and still thought it would be more cost effective to make the changes.

Which means, if your logic is correct, they don't need the VAT money back.

However, GERS attributes Scottish VAT revenues and so the Scottish Government income surely includes VAT from the Scottish Police. In this instance then, surely the SG can rebate the VAT back to the Police out of the Scottish budget?
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:13
anndra_w
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
Or Westminster could play the game and exempt the unitary body thus saving the most money. Deliberately hampering the cash efficiency of Scotland's police force because you don't like the choices a devolved administration is making isn't the kind of petty minded jobsworth action that a party of law and order should be indulging in. Especially as at the end of the day the government could simply up the equipment budgets by Vat for every exempted authority an remove the exemption for no overall difference to its finances. If VAT had been devolved then this would be a non issue.
Please don't let common sense get in the way of attacking the SNP.
anndra_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:18
SmoggyTheTowny
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
Or Westminster could play the game and exempt the unitary body thus saving the most money. Deliberately hampering the cash efficiency of Scotland's police force because you don't like the choices a devolved administration is making isn't the kind of petty minded jobsworth action that a party of law and order should be indulging in. Especially as at the end of the day the government could simply up the equipment budgets by Vat for every exempted authority an remove the exemption for no overall difference to its finances. If VAT had been devolved then this would be a non issue.
I think you will find that was the Scottish Government who set it up knowing it would do this.
You're the one being petty minded by complaining because the rules were changed to suit this singular Police force..
SmoggyTheTowny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:18
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
Please don't let common sense get in the way of attacking the SNP.
Please don't let the facts get in the way... the SNP ignored warnings and advice, but as usual expect everybody to do their bidding and cry foul when they don't .
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:20
SmoggyTheTowny
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
Ha ha, I had to laugh at Sturgeons cringworthy congrats message to Donald Trump even after all her disgraceful abuse of him. She said she hoped he would represent all Americans, yeh, like she represents all Scottish people (as long as you a die-hard nationalist or EU remoaner)
The funny thing is she respects the verdict of the American people, but refuses to respect the verdicts of the Scottish people who voted to remain in the UK or the verdict of the UK people who voted to leave the EU.
She is just a hypocrite, like her predecessor, who must like the sound of her own voice.
SmoggyTheTowny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:22
SmoggyTheTowny
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
Please don't let common sense get in the way of attacking the SNP.
Common sense would have been to alter the plans years ago when they first were warned.
Common sense is not ploughing on regardless and playing the victim (yet again...) afterwards because you can't have your own way.
SmoggyTheTowny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:25
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
The funny thing is she respects the verdict of the American people, but refuses to respect the verdicts of the Scottish people who voted to remain in the UK or the verdict of the UK people who voted to leave the EU.
She is just a hypocrite, like her predecessor, who must like the sound of her own voice.
I feared that Nicola would bolster support for independence after the marmite character which was Alex Salmond.

I see I had nothing to fear, she's tying herself up in knots and doesn't have the political acumen of Salmond.
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:27
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
Please don't let common sense get in the way of attacking the SNP.
Really? If someone told you that a certain action would cost you money but you chose to carry out that action anyway with this knowledge would it really be common sense to moan about the consequences?
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:34
anndra_w
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
Really? If someone told you that a certain action would cost you money but you chose to carry out that action anyway with this knowledge would it really be common sense to moan about the consequences?
Yes, when the costs are unreasonable, unecessary and detrimental.
anndra_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:42
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
Yes, when the costs are unreasonable, unecessary and detrimental.
So why would you willingly pay those costs knowing this fact?
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 21:52
anndra_w
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
So why would you willingly pay those costs knowing this fact?
You don't let London use their pathetic little games to change your policies. You have the balls to do it regardless and fight for common sense to prevail. This is fair and needs to be corrected and there's nothing wrong with exposing the lack of respect that comes to Scotland from the British Government, there's s duty to expose it,
anndra_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:00
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
You don't let London use their pathetic little games to change your policies. You have the balls to do it regardless and fight for common sense to prevail. This is fair and needs to be corrected and there's nothing wrong with exposing the lack of respect that comes to Scotland from the British Government, there's s duty to expose it,
Ah, OK, even if it cost you millions of pounds you just plod on and do it waiting for common sense to kick in because London is playing games, or you accuse them of playing games.

So I imagine the same thing would apply to a Scottish council if Holyrood was playing games?
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:05
anndra_w
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
Ah, OK, even if it cost you millions of pounds you just plod on and do it waiting for common sense to kick in because London is playing games, or you accuse them of playing games.

So I imagine the same thing would apply to a Scottish council if Holyrood was playing games?
If one council was being picked on, I would say yes.
anndra_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:16
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
If one council was being picked on, I would say yes.
The bottom line is that the SG knew this VAT rule existed, took advice and on receipt of this advice still amalgamated the Scottish police forces.

If Scotland were a region of the UK then we wouldn't pay VAT, the consequence of Scotland being a country means we do.

I prefer being a country but it seems that some want us to be treated as a region over this one issue that the SG had foreknowledge of.

Perhaps something can be worked out to designate Scotland as a region and we can get our VAT sorted out.

Alternatively, as I said previously the SG can pay the VAT as it's attributed anyway under GERS?
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:28
anndra_w
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
The bottom line is that the SG knew this VAT rule existed, took advice and on receipt of this advice still amalgamated the Scottish police forces.

If Scotland were a region of the UK then we wouldn't pay VAT, the consequence of Scotland being a country means we do.

I prefer being a country but it seems that some want us to be treated as a region over this one issue that the SG had foreknowledge of.

Perhaps something can be worked out to designate Scotland as a region and we can get our VAT sorted out.

Alternatively, as I said previously the SG can pay the VAT as it's attributed anyway under GERS?
I do not know what makes you tick. The single force was created to try and deal with financial pressures and London has deliberately tried to worsen that situation for no reason other than to play power games. If Scotland were treated like a country rather than a region it would be allowed control over VAT. Maybe it should be devolved? Of course London would tell us to bugger off then you'd find a contrived way to blame the snp for daring to ask. You couldn't make it up!
anndra_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:39
CoolSharpHarp
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,003
I do not know what makes you tick. The single force was created to try and deal with financial pressures and London has deliberately tried to worsen that situation for no reason other than to play power games. If Scotland were treated like a country rather than a region it would be allowed control over VAT. Maybe it should be devolved? Of course London would tell us to bugger off then you'd find a contrived way to blame the snp for daring to ask. You couldn't make it up!
This could have been avoided by the SNP government if they'd heeded advice.

BTW Police Scotland is not the only force in Scotland, nevermind the UK, which pays VAT. Which others?

https://whytepaper.wordpress.com/201...nding-and-vat/
CoolSharpHarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:41
thms
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,818
If Scotland were treated like a country rather than a region it would be allowed control over VAT. Maybe it should be devolved?
Under the Scotland Act 2016 Scotland will receive 50% of the VAT raised in Scotland from 2019/20. I wonder if the powers-that-be were aware that there would be a Brexit when they picked that year? Thanks to Brexit, VAT can now be devolved in 2019/20
thms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 22:43
Phil 2804
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,126
You don't let London use their pathetic little games to change your policies. You have the balls to do it regardless and fight for common sense to prevail. This is fair and needs to be corrected and there's nothing wrong with exposing the lack of respect that comes to Scotland from the British Government, there's s duty to expose it,
What actual improvements has merging Scotland's Police Forces actually produced?
Phil 2804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 23:03
SmoggyTheTowny
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
You don't let London use their pathetic little games to change your policies. You have the balls to do it regardless and fight for common sense to prevail. This is fair and needs to be corrected and there's nothing wrong with exposing the lack of respect that comes to Scotland from the British Government, there's s duty to expose it,
The only pathetic little game being played is by you, trying to blame Westminster for something tjat is wholly the Scottish Governments fauls.
SmoggyTheTowny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 23:22
Black Sheep
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
I do not know what makes you tick. The single force was created to try and deal with financial pressures and London has deliberately tried to worsen that situation for no reason other than to play power games. If Scotland were treated like a country rather than a region it would be allowed control over VAT. Maybe it should be devolved? Of course London would tell us to bugger off then you'd find a contrived way to blame the snp for daring to ask. You couldn't make it up!
Aye right. Government wants to save money on policing, told that VAT wouldn't be exempt in a national force because of rules in force by Labour government but forges ahead with a plan which still saves money, then turns around and blames the Tories.

Your right about the fact that you couldn't make it up.
Black Sheep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 07:14
tiggertiny
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,166
Most Scots must be thanking God or whatever deity they worship that they rejected independence can you imagine a Sturgeon led government dealing with the US and Trump after all the crass comments she has made?

The SNP simply hasn't the talent in its ranks to run a successful country and would be a disaster. You can see why the talent isn't there by reading what their myopic supporters post on here.
tiggertiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 07:52
*Sparkle*
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,947
So why would you willingly pay those costs knowing this fact?
Because it gives them an opportunity to whine about London playing games. It's their top priority, and spend far more time and energy on whining about London and the UK Government, instead of using the powers available to them.

Scottish literacy and numeracy standards have been dropping every since the SNP took power, but Sturgeon would much rather go on pretendy-Presidential trips to Germany to meet junior ministers than deal with that. Scottish universities have been experiencing years of under-funding, thanks to their vain approaches to funding, but they've managed to ignore their complaints until such time they've found a way to blame it on the rest of the UK. Now the Scottish Government can blame it on BREXIT, and therefore rUK, they've decided to be worried about them.
*Sparkle* is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:39.