Read what you just wrote.

Substitute Westminster for Labour and Tories.

Do you see what you're saying there?

"Them's the rules" isn't a valid argument if you're the one who makes the rules.

The greatest saving and best way of maintaining the numbers of front line personnel is via unitary bodies. Perhaps if it'd been a Labour administration at Holyrood this would have been sorted long ago. However it's the SNP so petty minded sabotage is the order of the day from the Ruth Davidson's pals at Westminster.

Sturgeon continues to demand.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...-defence-cuts/

Surely even she can see that an old and outdated barracks like Ft George isn't practicable for today's soldiers and that 16 years is more than enough time for locals to get used to it and plan.

Meanwhile, other Scottish bases are being incpvested in and built up but no mention from the SNP welcoming the jobs they are creating and saving.

Surely if your going to criticise a shutdown you can praise an expansion?

They're blaming the Tories for refusing to adapt a rule that could be adapted in a way that would take pressure of the Police etc. The question here is why are the Tories refusing to budge? The question is what process does your mind go through where you blame the SNP and back the Tories. The only ones in agreement with you on this issue are the SNP hating cretins on here. That's not a good position for you to be in.

A VAT exemption won't remove pressure on Police Scotland as the VAT cost is paid from central funds and not Police Scotland... this was done on the basis, that the problem arose from the Scottish Government's decision to centralise.

As mentioned yesterday this rules doesn't just apply to Police Scotland and affects other police groups. This could have been avoided, if the Scottish government had heeded advice, but hey-ho, far better to gripe and play the victim.

Chief Constable Gormley stated: "Finally you ask, in reference to a question posed by Mr McDonald (SNP MP Stuart McDonald), how much VAT Police Scotland is unable to reclaim, or has paid.
"Since Police Scotland was formed in April 2013 we have paid £76.5M in VAT and we remain the only police organisation in the United Kingdom to pay VAT."

That's not true. The VAT Police Scotland has paid and cannot claim back would just about cover their shortfall. The British Government needs to act and stop imposing charges onto Police Scotland. Pressure need's to keep being applied.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36491598

See the link below, which shows the VAT is paid by the Scottish Government and he gives them credit for doing this...

https://whytepaper.wordpress.com/201...nding-and-vat/

BTW, like the blogger I hope this is sorted, but purely blaming Westminster is a ridiculous position.

EDIT... you'll also see in the blog, they're not the only force in the UK to pay VAT.

Wow, the Transport police and the Nuclear police. Definite equivalents to the Scottish police.

Scottish does fund Police Scotland, and if they are paying their VAT then that is additional coming out of Scotland's budget. Previously the British Government wasn't receiving this VAT so there is no loss for them to include Police Scotland in their exemptions. In a situation where we are living with austerity and services are under pressure across the board it's inexcusable for the UK to make that situation worse when there are clearly ways for them not to.

Yes it's coming out of centralised funds, which doesn't mean that money would find it's way to Police Scotland if it was VAT exempt.

As I said solely blaming Westminster is ridiculous.

At least you acknowledge this is based on the principle then, rather than targeted at just Police Scotland.

You'll note it also affects the Police in Northern Ireland.

It isn't ridiculous. The issue has been raised Westminster is refusing to fix it and it's bad for Scotland. They gain nothing other than making life difficult for the Scottish Government. They should devolve VAT fully.

It is ridiculous, because this could have been avoided by the Scottish government...

Once again you absolutely cut to the crux of nothing.

Once again, just in case you didn't read any links or previous posts.

The SNP took advice over this before amalgamating the police. They were told that it being a National force would mean it would lose its local VAT status.

Given this information they still thought it would be more cost effective to amalgamate the police.

Those ARE the facts of it and what you are attempting, and failing to do is try and somehow say the situation was instigated by the UK Government.

Now I agree that moving forwards it might be good to make some changes but the fact of the amalgamation remains.

Those SNP hating cretins are balanced by the SNP loving cretins on the other side, that much is blatantly apparent on here.

What would be the consequence to the Scottish exchequer if VAT was fully devolved and the Police were exempt?

She should move aside. Unfortunately there is not a single person in the SNP who has the trust and respect of the Scottish people that can replace her. The new US government wont want to deal with her but a new face could provide a more welcoming reception for American business. The SNP also freed the Lockerbie bombers which caused great offence in the US. Even if Clinton had won, she strongly objected to this and had refused to meet Salmond when he went to the USA.

I give up. On this issue you are trolling furiously.

You can accuse folk of trolling all you like but on this issue you are plain wrong.

The situation was made by the SNP government. Now your moaning it was made by Westminster but continue to refuse to see or admit that the SNP Government entered into it with full knowledge.

You should be whining about this move by the SNP but instead pretend it's a slight against Scotland.

Maybe if you were a wee bit more open minded on these issues you would come across less blinkered.

Hopefully it will be resolved somehow but it's a grievance made in Scotland, not Westminster.

Face palm.

Westminster warned the SNP about the VAT situation beforehand, they pressed on anyway. So either the SNP don't listen to advice given to them or concluded even with the VAT pressing ahead with unification was worth it.

The fact is Police Scotland has been an unmitigated failure on almost every level, and like everything the SNP don't like the most convenient scapegoat is to blame Westminster to detract from their own failures.

It really is that simple and Westminster should stand its ground.

Honestly why are you so lost to this bizarre anti-SNP nonsense? Yes the SNP knew about the VAT issue. Does that make them wrong to go forward with their policy? No it doesn't. Are they entitled to expect that, given that Police Forces do not pay VAT and we don't control VAT ourselves, London should be prepared to adapt the rules to reflect the changes made by the Scottish Government? Yes they are. Are they wrong to lay the blame for this on a British Government that has refused, out of hand, to adapt? Without doubt! Maybe if you could find a way to become wee bit more open minded and less obsessed with searching for fault with the SNP you might come across as less blinkered and more credible. At the moment it's just blanket anti-SNP criticism, usually substance free, and it's tedious.

One Lockerbie bomber, not bombers, and convicted on very doubtful evidence when it's generally accepted that Iran blew up the Pan Am plane in retaliation for the Vincennes shooting down a scheduled Iranian Airbus.

And yet I do have an open mind and any fool except a dyed in the wool anti UK everything SNP OK supporter can see that the SNP created this situation.

The blame in this instance lies with those that amalgamated the police knowing these facts.

It's not substance free as unlike the majority of your posts on any subject I actually provide some links and background when I make points. You just say Westminster bad blah blah blah.

If you can prove that the SNP didn't go into this with eyes open then provide some proof that negates the proof I provided, otherwise, your just whining for the sake of it.

This is painful. I can't prove that the SNP didn't go into this with their eyes open and any reading of my posts show clearly I've never stated that they there eyes were not open. What I believe is that they went into it with their eyes open with the aim to push Westminster to extending the exemption to Police Scotland. Westminster currently refuses, currently controls VAT, and so are fully responsible for the current situation and still refuse to do anything to change it. If we want Police Scotland to be exempt it is only Westminster who can exempt them. The responsibility lies in London and instead of bitching about the SNP can I suggest you get behind the Scottish Government in pushing for an exemption.

And there we have it. You believe the SG did this with an aim to change things after the event. have you any actual SG statement to back this up?

I'm fully behind any movement towards VAT exemption but at the same time hold the SG to account for the money already paid which I believe because of their botched attitude towards this they should pay themselves until it is resolved.

Wouldn't you agree that would be the fair thing to do?

What do you mean there we have it? That's the point I've been making all along. We know that the Scottish Government knew there were VAT implications and we know they have been trying to get an exemption since then which the UK have refused. We know all this.

Also if the Scottish Government is not paying the VAT already, who is?

Anndra, there are certain posters on here that chant the mantra SNPbad no matter the topic. DO I think the SG are prefect? Definitely NOT. I was and remain totally against the closure of Control Rooms for police and fire and being in effect centralised, for example. But overall, they are a damned sight better than the opposition. Including Ruth Davidson.