You seem rather angry and I think that blinkers you from the simple fact that some of us feel, based on the information available, that we are currently better together.

BIB - I'm sure you'll have evidence of that claim? Good to see you take the high ground though, as you'd never call other politicians names...

Sadly for Scotland you export your best talent especially the great Sir Alex and the man we call the King - Denis Law CBE.

Some talented Scots in UK politics too sadly they seem to leave the reserve team back at home.

Nice to see the too stupid argument still has legs. The proud Scots won't question this of course.

On the contrary plenty of clever Scots just that they aren't in the SNP.

They're definitely not in the Conservatives, Labour or Lib Dems either. The qualities of Kezia Dugdale, Ruth Davidson and wee Willie Rennie make a Trump Pence combination look alluring.

I think there are plenty of clever Scots out there it just seems that politics doesn't attract them much to any party.

Then Scotland really is in trouble.

I must admit i like Ruth Davidson she comes across as someone with a sense of humour and pleasant unlike the charmless Sturgeon.

The oil argument hasn't changed what happened post 2014 proved it beyond doubt. The SNP staked their entire economic plan on keeping Sterling and oil at or above $100 a barrel, this argument has been proved utterly and totally correct. Moreover we now know from the GERS figures (accepted by the SNP) that Scotland is running a 10% budget deficit. EU borrowing rules require member states to run deficits no larger than 3% of GDP. George Kerevan SNP MP wrote a piece for City AM where he outright said a newly independent Scotland would have to endure substantial fiscal consolidation through spending cuts and tax rises as well as privatisation of major state assets in order to get its finances in order and this was in or out of Europe. If you still don't believe it then Nicola Sturgeon herself has abandoned the economic argument stating that independence transcends the economy, now would she say that if there was a ton of economic data clearly proving Scotland and Scots would be better off post independence? No of course not, its a clear admission such data doesn't currently exist.

Davidson has come out with some classics, like waving a report saying how bad the NHS was doing and asking Sturgeon what she was going to do about it. Pity it was about the NHS in England though. She sometimes makes Kezia Dugdale look competent.

Of a Scotland within the UK, with figures supplied by the UK Government. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the UK's running of a resource rich country like Scotland. Nobody knows the actual figures for an independent Scotland and presenting GERS as if they are is a deliberate falsehood.

So tell me? Why are we doing so badly compared to our other northern European neighbours? Who is in charge of the purse strings? Who's deficit is it? Because the Scottish Government is not allowed to run a deficit. So who are the culprits here?

You know the answer, but will never admit it.

And yet you know that GERS is the best reflection of our economy because of two things:

The SNP endorse it, do you really think they would if they had an alternative and

The SNP based their white paper on it, do you really think they would have if they had any better figures.

The deficit is partly the difference between income and spending. Remove Barnett and accept a significant reduction in funds at this time.

Alternatively provide an alternative to GERS that the SNP, your Party and our Government accepts as truth data.

Oh dear. That's a huge credibility fail.

I could list problems with all of those politicians, plus Sturgeon and Harvie, but their worst qualities combined don't even come close to the averagely awful ones of a Trump-Pence combination. Frankly, that pair make Thatcher look cuddly and progressive, and I'm not sure there is anyone in mainstream British politics who is anything like as awful as them.

Many criticise SNP politicians for pandering to the likes of Wings, but his offensive comments are amateur compared with the sort of bloggers and social media stars that are endorsed by Trump and Pence. Wings might continue to blame the Liverpool fans for their own deaths, but the Trump bloggers are attacking the families of the victims of Sandy Hook.

Totally agree with you about Trump. He is a despicable Bully.

As for the other part. The guy behind Wings is as nothing compared to parts of the so-called 'mainstream' media. The Daily Mail, Daily Express and The Sun are the biggest manufacturers of hate in this country by far.

And unlike a random bloke with a blog, we have their agenda's punted to us each day on the BBC with their daily round up of the papers. That nonsense has to end.

I could not care less if the SNP or anyone else endorses GERS. They are in no way an accurate representation of an independent Scotland's economy.

Within the UK, Scotland has to follow along with economic priorities set by a Tory Government it did not elect. This is what the GERS figures reflect. An independent Scotland could set out different priorities under a parliament it did.

If the UK's abysmal handling of the Scottish economy is all that you and your Tory Government are relying on to stop independence, then the Union is in serious trouble.

What economic priorities would you set out?

That would be for the first sovereign Government elected by the people to set out.

Now you could perhaps answer -

Seriously, what youve said above is inaccurate and just your opinion.

If you bring another set of figures in that the SNP Government can use then let us see them, lobby the SNP to accept them and let that be a base for a way forward.

GERS would be, and indeed WAS a starting point for independence. Day one of Scottish independence would follow the last day of GERS.

Im certainly not disputing that Scotland could take an independent track following independence, never have, but it does get tedious to be told this and then somehow this transition is going to magically appear.

How do we get from one to the other? You haven't explained that.

[quote=zarkov;84536765]That would be for the first sovereign Government elected by the people to set out.

Now you could perhaps answer


Realistically there are many culprits both the UK and SG are complicit in this. I dont think were doing so badly its just that we are currently in Scotland spending higher than the average of the rest of the UK.

The Scottish Government isn't running a deficit but the difference between income and spending is currently covered by Barnett. This and our real share of any UK deficit following independence would create our own deficit.

Now, we could spend less and borrow more, but as senior SNP politicians have said, without any correction from the FM, this would entail up to ten years of economic austerity and the selling off of Scottish assets to raise funds.

If we are going to move the debate forwards on this, these things have to be realistically tackled, otherwise we just re-run 2014 with the same result.

The SNP's cuts to the SNHS are worrying for an awful lot of people and he was just highlighting those concerns.

I'm sorry that is 😂 hilarious. I ask you honestly what your priorities would be and you deflect the question.

The reality is the Scottish Government has considerable power of tax and spending in Scotland yet has spent far chosen not to exercise a single one other than tinker with the margins.

In answer to your question UK GDP tax take is about 36% and Public Spending in Scotland is about 46% of GDP. Other nations like Norway have taxation rates of 45% or more. Try convincing the Scottish electorate to raise taxes by 30%.

Good point on taxation, the Scottish Government have pledged to keep taxes the same for the life of the Parliament and that's Tory taxes too.

I find Blacks comments interesting, not for the fact that she seems to be saying she's would have voted for Brexit if it hadn't been a Party direction to vote remain but she stated that the plans during Indy that would see all Scots better off were just made up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...oting-remain/?

It appears that as time passes the economics of the SNP White paper continue to be debunked by their own Party members.

Many left-wingers have a historic objection to the EU and the way it interferes in member nations affairs and many in the SNP will have 'leave' instincts. Sturgeon talks of continuing to have 'trade' with the EU but this 'trade' is mostly about EU imports into Scotland, not so much in the way of exports from Scotland to the EU. In any case exports to the rest of the UK are far more important so there are some huge anomalies in what she says. Im'e going to sit back and watch the cracks in the SNP start to grow, its going to be interesting to see where this goes.

A vote for remain was not a vote for the status quo. It was a vote for David Cameron's reformed EU. She was not the only one holding their nose.

Dearie me. The only comedian here is you. Are you really suggesting that the Scottish Government has 'considerable powers' (whatever that vague term means...guessing you heard a yoon politician use it on the telly and thought it sounded good) to deal with a deficit they did not create or control?

As for your second point. That is the way Norway sees fit to run its economy. The people in Norway elect their own Government on that basis. It works for them. They see the benefits.

Norway does not just sit about in hope waiting on the outcome of a United Scandinavia election...only to curse that a despised political party that is strangely popular with their larger neighbour Sweden has won again, and will now get to run their economy and make their decisions!

Tip for you - When trying to make a point and defend Scotland's economic position in the UK (an economy worse than Greece according to some) - highlighting an oil rich northern European neighbour with a similar sized population, that is consistently voted one of the happiest and richest on the planet; is about the most boneheaded thing you could do. But still, at least you tried