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Old 14-11-2016, 19:41
Black Sheep
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Indeed. I seem to remember earlier this year that the UK Government tried to slice £7bn out of the Scottish budget. Fortunately we have Government at Holyrood that stands up to such nonsense. No doubt the UK proposal was met with little resistance from Ruthie and Viceroy Mundell. Of course that was followed a few months later with them and other unionist parties playing the key part in sabotaging a very lucrative £10bn investment in Scotland. Better Together
What a strange post. In it you manage to acknowledge the advantage of Barnett and the fact that Scotland gets a good deal but at the same time you've stated you want to live in a Scotland without that 7 billion and billions more.

Then you go onto say that others stopped a deal that the SNP never even had when it was entirely down to the SNP Government and their keeping it a secret for so long.

Stronger for Scotland............

Oh and on that ten billion deal, you do know it would never have been free money don't you, it would have had to have been paid back with interest you know.
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Old 14-11-2016, 19:54
zarkov
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Shame we wont get that no detriment clause if we go independent...
Not relying on the whims of a party with 1 MP in Scotland. Sounds good

That deal fell through 3 months ago, but we only find out now... now it's become public apparently it's all the fault of other parties and the SNP waited three months to lay the blame elsewhere... yeah that rings true, not.

If I remember the SNP also told us there was no deal, just a MOU.
Indeed it was only a MoU. The Scottish Government never publicly announced it's signing. Why should they then publicly announce it did not happen?

It was plain for all to see the howls from the opposition benches in Holyrood when the MoU became public knowledge. The Chinese investors themselves blamed the outcry over the investment, stating it was very badly received in the Far East. I'm sure many unionists will be well pleased their efforts have led to Scotland missing out on billions in investment. Maybe they think it makes their 'basket case economy' argument stronger...sad.
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:05
Phil 2804
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You have no idea what Scotland's next block grant will be. Further austerity measures quantative easing brexit considerations.
Its still a better proposition than the massive austerity required to get Scotland fit to join the EU post independence, or indeed needed until we can float our own currency and central bank.
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:16
CoolSharpHarp
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Not relying on the whims of a party with 1 MP in Scotland. Sounds good
How long have we had the Barnett formula... I think you're doing your own bit of scaremongering.

Indeed it was only a MoU. The Scottish Government never publicly announced it's signing. Why should they then publicly announce it did not happen?

It was plain for all to see the howls from the opposition benches in Holyrood when the MoU became public knowledge. The Chinese investors themselves blamed the outcry over the investment, stating it was very badly received in the Far East. I'm sure many unionists will be well pleased their efforts have led to Scotland missing out on billions in investment. Maybe they think it makes their 'basket case economy' argument stronger...sad.
They did publicly acknowledge the signing... eventually. Is it too much to ask for some openness?

Strange you and the SNP blame the unionist parties, whilst the head of Sinofortone, Peter Zhang seems to put it at the door of the Scottish Government.

Peter Zhang, managing director of SinoFortone and a signatory to the controversial deal, told Chinese state-run newspaper China Daily that he did not want to pull out of the agreement but added: “We want to see more commitment from Scotland.” He said the Scottish government had failed to put together an advisory team to focus on the agreement as the Chinese had asked for.
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:23
zarkov
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What a strange post. In it you manage to acknowledge the advantage of Barnett and the fact that Scotland gets a good deal but at the same time you've stated you want to live in a Scotland without that 7 billion and billions more.

Then you go onto say that others stopped a deal that the SNP never even had when it was entirely down to the SNP Government and their keeping it a secret for so long.

Stronger for Scotland............

Oh and on that ten billion deal, you do know it would never have been free money don't you, it would have had to have been paid back with interest you know.
Sums it up. We are where we are, so no I don't want to see Scotland's budget cut as long as we remain in the UK. Though there is little doubt the Ruthie party would have just rolled over and accepted a £7bn cut. How that translates to me thinking that the same thing would happen in an independent Scotland is your own interpretation. No doubt you will predictably mention GERS figures again.

Oh and you keep telling yourself that about the Chinese 'deal'. You know exactly what happened when the news of a MoU became known. Accusations were flying thick and fast. Still, Better Together and all that...for now.
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:38
zarkov
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How long have we had the Barnett formula... I think you're doing your own bit of scaremongering.



They did publicly acknowledge the signing... eventually. Is it too much to ask for some openness?

Strange you and the SNP blame the unionist parties, whilst the head of Sinofortone, Peter Zhang seems to put it at the door of the Scottish Government.

Peter Zhang, managing director of SinoFortone and a signatory to the controversial deal, told Chinese state-run newspaper China Daily that he did not want to pull out of the agreement but added: “We want to see more commitment from Scotland.” He said the Scottish government had failed to put together an advisory team to focus on the agreement as the Chinese had asked for.
The Chinese backed out of the agreement after specifically citing hostile criticism by opposition parties and the press. Now these brass necked critics blame the collapse of any deal on the Scottish Government.

It would have been thought that after all the criticism of the MoU the opposition parties would have been delighted that a deal did not go through. But much like the warped desire of some of the more obsessed unionists on here, what is best for Scotland does not come into it...as long as you can stick it to the SNP. Well done folks.
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:39
thms
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Strange you and the SNP blame the unionist parties, whilst the head of Sinofortone, Peter Zhang seems to put it at the door of the Scottish Government.[/url]
I'm looking forward to the reaction of Patrick Harvie, Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and Kezie Dugdale if this becomes an outcome..

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016760.shtml

"...for deals signed by China and the devolved regional UK governments, Chinese firms can resort to the British government via diplomatic channels if Scottish opposition parties continue to obstruct commercial deals, Li said. "After all, Scotland is still part of the UK.""

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Old 14-11-2016, 20:45
CoolSharpHarp
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The Chinese backed out of the agreement after specifically citing hostile criticism by opposition parties and the press. Now these brass necked critics blame the collapse of any deal on the Scottish Government.

It would have been thought that after all the criticism of the MoU the opposition parties would have been delighted that a deal did not go through. But much like the warped desire of some of the more obsessed unionists on here, what is best for Scotland does not come into it...as long as you can stick it to the SNP. Well done folks.
Did you even read what the boss of Sinofortone wrote... he referenced the Sottish government not following through on their commitment.

Anyway why should opposition parties not query the investment... are amnesty intentional part of this unionist cabal... you don't think the SNP would have voiced concerns if they were in opposition.
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Old 14-11-2016, 21:02
zarkov
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A wee clip to show how the BBC present potential investment from the very same Chinese company. Good news / Bad news -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSSZLg1crKw

Still. Nothing to see here, move along...
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Old 15-11-2016, 06:51
Black Sheep
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Sums it up. We are where we are, so no I don't want to see Scotland's budget cut as long as we remain in the UK. Though there is little doubt the Ruthie party would have just rolled over and accepted a £7bn cut. How that translates to me thinking that the same thing would happen in an independent Scotland is your own interpretation. No doubt you will predictably mention GERS figures again.

Oh and you keep telling yourself that about the Chinese 'deal'. You know exactly what happened when the news of a MoU became known. Accusations were flying thick and fast. Still, Better Together and all that...for now.
We are where we are.........

As long as we remain in the UK you don't want our budget cut. But the day after we leave the UK I imagine you will accept not just a 7 billion cut over ten years but around 8-10 billion cut immediately. That's as much as the China deal would have brought over a number of years that you are telling us has lost jobs to Scotland.

If all of these billions are deemed to be damaging when lost over a number of years I've yet to hear an explanation of why independence won't be damaging for a number of years after day one.
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Old 15-11-2016, 14:16
Aidy
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I'm looking forward to the reaction of Patrick Harvie, Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and Kezie Dugdale if this becomes an outcome..

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016760.shtml

"...for deals signed by China and the devolved regional UK governments, Chinese firms can resort to the British government via diplomatic channels if Scottish opposition parties continue to obstruct commercial deals, Li said. "After all, Scotland is still part of the UK.""

That guy you quote is an assistant research fellow at a University in Shanghai and has nothing to do with the deal. He is offering an opinion, just an opinion
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Old 15-11-2016, 15:35
Mou Mou Land
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I'm looking forward to the reaction of Patrick Harvie, Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and Kezie Dugdale if this becomes an outcome..

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016760.shtml

"...for deals signed by China and the devolved regional UK governments, Chinese firms can resort to the British government via diplomatic channels if Scottish opposition parties continue to obstruct commercial deals, Li said. "After all, Scotland is still part of the UK.""

Running home to mummy when the going gets tough - doesn't say a lot for going independent does it?
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Old 17-11-2016, 07:24
Black Sheep
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Evil Tories cause Toblerone Terror

http://www.thenational.scot/politics...-smaller.24867

Are the SNP looking daft on this one?
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Old 17-11-2016, 08:33
CoolSharpHarp
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Evil Tories cause Toblerone Terror

http://www.thenational.scot/politics...-smaller.24867

Are the SNP looking daft on this one?
Yes... but they've got form on this.

I suppose if you've no actual bills to debate though, you've got to use the parliament for something.
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Old 18-11-2016, 00:01
kezo
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http://stv.tv/news/politics/1373175-...sh-hour-chaos/

Chaos in Edinburgh - Sturgeon says sorry , not to complain here but the impact in Edinburgh did not only affect Scotland it also affected trains to and from England today! (but of course none of the media mentions England in this since well its Scotrail and the fact is Virgin/Cross Country services have had a knock on effect!)

Also since I found this out today - I wonder if anyone can shed a bit of light on this, this is Scotrail only services in question:

Monday morning services to Aberdeen were delayed at Dundee (constant announcement saying one train was delayed await further announcement THEN the next train was also delayed), I had set off for Newcastle without issue.

Tonight coming back from Newcastle - Virgin Train services to Aberdeen (no issue) but if your wanting a Scotrail train to Aberdeen it was delayed AGAIN! Since Nicola has apologised for the problems in Edinburgh with the trains today, does she realise that this also affects other areas too in Scotland and quite possibly down south? Or is it just Edinburgh/Glasgow get more importance than anywhere in Scotland? The chaos did not just cause issues in on particular area it affected Scotland and England as well (I was reading on some delays on my Scotrail app that they were running (pending on area) upto 70 mins late to then be cancelled)
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Old 18-11-2016, 16:07
Black Sheep
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http://stv.tv/news/politics/1373175-...sh-hour-chaos/

Chaos in Edinburgh - Sturgeon says sorry , not to complain here but the impact in Edinburgh did not only affect Scotland it also affected trains to and from England today! (but of course none of the media mentions England in this since well its Scotrail and the fact is Virgin/Cross Country services have had a knock on effect!)

Also since I found this out today - I wonder if anyone can shed a bit of light on this, this is Scotrail only services in question:

Monday morning services to Aberdeen were delayed at Dundee (constant announcement saying one train was delayed await further announcement THEN the next train was also delayed), I had set off for Newcastle without issue.

Tonight coming back from Newcastle - Virgin Train services to Aberdeen (no issue) but if your wanting a Scotrail train to Aberdeen it was delayed AGAIN! Since Nicola has apologised for the problems in Edinburgh with the trains today, does she realise that this also affects other areas too in Scotland and quite possibly down south? Or is it just Edinburgh/Glasgow get more importance than anywhere in Scotland? The chaos did not just cause issues in on particular area it affected Scotland and England as well (I was reading on some delays on my Scotrail app that they were running (pending on area) upto 70 mins late to then be cancelled)
Surely this material change in the way our railways are run warrants a Referendum on independence? In an independent Scotland nomtrains would be late, or breakdown.
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Old 18-11-2016, 16:48
kezo
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Surely this material change in the way our railways are run warrants a Referendum on independence? In an independent Scotland nomtrains would be late, or breakdown.

I have only been reading (briefly) but people are already kicking up regarding Abellio as the Dutch company profits mostly go out there than into Scotland but since they been caught in the act as such they are now saying most recent they are investing in trains (mind you I think this was at the time regarding conductor(less) trains.

I use the trains roughly every couple months (again probably different to anyone that uses them everyday) but to read/hear what happened yesterday and for what I heard at my own station on Monday was a first for me. If I was honest I rather the First group was brought back, I had no issues with them (again only on times I used it) plus I am now use to using First buses in Glasgow now anyway

I do think the Scottish Government needs to step in and do something but I also too wish that this government also recognises that if something like this to happen again that it understands that not only the affects in Glasgow/Edinburgh but it also knocks on services to Aberdeen/Inverness (Scotrail example services) and quite possibly travelling to England using services as Virgin Trains/Cross-country - again can have knock on effects to places like Newcastle, York and London (or further) but to what I gathered/read on my phone app as to say it was hitting services mostly in Glasgow/Edinburgh is a bit of a laugh really (more like these areas are far more important to them there than to someone living up north) but again I understand that Edinburgh/Glasgow are the hubs of Scotland but lets not forget the other parts of Scotland and indeed England are affected
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Old 18-11-2016, 18:59
bhoy07
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I have only been reading (briefly) but people are already kicking up regarding Abellio as the Dutch company profits mostly go out there than into Scotland but since they been caught in the act as such they are now saying most recent they are investing in trains (mind you I think this was at the time regarding conductor(less) trains.

I use the trains roughly every couple months (again probably different to anyone that uses them everyday) but to read/hear what happened yesterday and for what I heard at my own station on Monday was a first for me. If I was honest I rather the First group was brought back, I had no issues with them (again only on times I used it) plus I am now use to using First buses in Glasgow now anyway

I do think the Scottish Government needs to step in and do something but I also too wish that this government also recognises that if something like this to happen again that it understands that not only the affects in Glasgow/Edinburgh but it also knocks on services to Aberdeen/Inverness (Scotrail example services) and quite possibly travelling to England using services as Virgin Trains/Cross-country - again can have knock on effects to places like Newcastle, York and London (or further) but to what I gathered/read on my phone app as to say it was hitting services mostly in Glasgow/Edinburgh is a bit of a laugh really (more like these areas are far more important to them there than to someone living up north) but again I understand that Edinburgh/Glasgow are the hubs of Scotland but lets not forget the other parts of Scotland and indeed England are affected
The SG stepping in would be admitting the SG got it wrong - so it's not going to happen.
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Old 18-11-2016, 19:32
kezo
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The SG stepping in would be admitting the SG got it wrong - so it's not going to happen.
Yet we need them to step up and take control, I read also and is quoted in link that the Unions are not happy and that the Transport minister is not doing much to help, irony I laughed at in the link was the Transport minister seeing how it works in Glasgow, could he care to look further afield as its not just Glasgow and central belt with issues! If this incident had happened elsewhere in Scotland would there be a rush of concern to do so? I doubt it but had this happened in England you would probably hear SNP ask Westminster to get involved and do "investigations" but since its Scotland/SNP all people get is sorry and it will be swept under the carpet....until something happens, rinse and repeat
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Old 18-11-2016, 22:31
zarkov
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"The disruption was caused by a broken down train between Haymarket and Waverley stations in Edinburgh"

So moaning about an unforeseen incident. Its like the Forth Road Bridge all over again.

The opposition parties in Scotland are utterly hopeless.
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Old 18-11-2016, 23:01
Mc256
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"The disruption was caused by a broken down train between Haymarket and Waverley stations in Edinburgh"

So moaning about an unforeseen incident. Its like the Forth Road Bridge all over again.

The opposition parties in Scotland are utterly hopeless.
Looks like the best of a hopeless bunch will always make the sure the Gravy train takes priority.
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Old 18-11-2016, 23:21
kezo
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"The disruption was caused by a broken down train between Haymarket and Waverley stations in Edinburgh"

So moaning about an unforeseen incident. Its like the Forth Road Bridge all over again.


The opposition parties in Scotland are utterly hopeless.
Fair enough an "unforeseen incident" but can someone explain what was going on with Scotrail with services on Monday?? As I can't find anything unless someone can find it out for me it would be great?

But I knew that anyway - its still an incident which had caused delays, I was in Newcastle coming back I did at first worry that I would not get back due to the issue but it was only affecting Southbound (possibly saying it wrongly here) traffic, towards Glasgow etc, but again it still does not explain why there was another issue for Aberdeen (Scotrail) from 4pm why there was delays again to Aberdeen (similar on Monday where it was from I heard it about 10.30am-11am (I was on train to Newcastle at 11am) but nothing was explained on the announcements what the "delays" were - that is another issue - if its signal issues then say it over the tanoid than play wait and see - I presume the announcers in Edinburgh and Glasgow would explain but possibly the announcers in Dundee possibly had no clue so they just let the auto-announcer be left on repeat ... then have same announcer say "next train delayed" - if I was going to Aberdeen on these days I would have been annoyed to a degree if you booked tickets and left unsure what train is LIVE or getting told hop on a megabus instead


found this: http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news...ough-1-4285323

“Arbroath commuters face a double whammy with the practice of skip-stopping. Only last week, ScotRail cancelled the stop at Arbroath for a late running service to Aberdeen, forcing passengers to get out at Dundee and wait for the following train. As a regular train user myself, I know this happens all too often – and it is simply a device to fiddle the figures. “We need concrete action from the SNP Transport Minister Humza Yousaf, Transport Scotland and ScotRail on tackling the very real problems affecting our trains in Arbroath. Not warm words and a glossy brochure more concerned with the Central Belt and saying how wonderful ScotRail is. The SNP and Angus Council have been strangely quiet in demanding improvements locally, which is why I believe we need fresh new councillors to stand up for Arbroath and the Angus area.” In response, MSP for Angus South Graeme Dey said: “The punctuality of Scotrail trains calling at Arbroath station is clearly not good enough, although it is worth noting that the figure concerning trains terminating in Arbroath covers only one train!
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Old 18-11-2016, 23:24
The infidel
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Hmmm. If matters are as serious as Sturgeon keeps making out then why does she not simply raise taxes? After all she has the power. Come on Nicola, what about a 'penny for Scotland'?
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Old 18-11-2016, 23:49
zarkov
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Fair enough an "unforeseen incident" but can someone explain what was going on with Scotrail with services on Monday?? As I can't find anything unless someone can find it out for me it would be great?

But I knew that anyway - its still an incident which had caused delays, I was in Newcastle coming back I did at first worry that I would not get back due to the issue but it was only affecting Southbound (possibly saying it wrongly here) traffic, towards Glasgow etc, but again it still does not explain why there was another issue for Aberdeen (Scotrail) from 4pm why there was delays again to Aberdeen (similar on Monday where it was from I heard it about 10.30am-11am (I was on train to Newcastle at 11am) but nothing was explained on the announcements what the "delays" were - that is another issue - if its signal issues then say it over the tanoid than play wait and see - I presume the announcers in Edinburgh and Glasgow would explain but possibly the announcers in Dundee possibly had no clue so they just let the auto-announcer be left on repeat ... then have same announcer say "next train delayed" - if I was going to Aberdeen on these days I would have been annoyed to a degree if you booked tickets and left unsure what train is LIVE or getting told hop on a megabus instead


found this: http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news...ough-1-4285323

“Arbroath commuters face a double whammy with the practice of skip-stopping. Only last week, ScotRail cancelled the stop at Arbroath for a late running service to Aberdeen, forcing passengers to get out at Dundee and wait for the following train. As a regular train user myself, I know this happens all too often – and it is simply a device to fiddle the figures. “We need concrete action from the SNP Transport Minister Humza Yousaf, Transport Scotland and ScotRail on tackling the very real problems affecting our trains in Arbroath. Not warm words and a glossy brochure more concerned with the Central Belt and saying how wonderful ScotRail is. The SNP and Angus Council have been strangely quiet in demanding improvements locally, which is why I believe we need fresh new councillors to stand up for Arbroath and the Angus area.” In response, MSP for Angus South Graeme Dey said: “The punctuality of Scotrail trains calling at Arbroath station is clearly not good enough, although it is worth noting that the figure concerning trains terminating in Arbroath covers only one train!
Then you should probably start a 'Scotrail / Abellio' thread. This is an SNP(very bad ) watch thread.
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Old 19-11-2016, 08:17
Black Sheep
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Then you should probably start a 'Scotrail / Abellio' thread. This is an SNP(very bad ) watch thread.
Doesn't the SNP control the transport network in Scotland and didn't they give contracts out to companies which can be legitimately criticised.

Also, why did the FM publicly apologise for the failures in Parliament if it isn't a political issue?

It appears that yet another SNP follower can never admit the party can get things wrong at times. Stronger for Scotland.................
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