The Scottish Government being responsible for the pensions of it's residents is a ridiculous proposition?

The Scottish Government would assume responsibility for pensions within Scotland. There would need to be an interim period whereby the UK Government continued to be responsible those who are currently eligible or are close to being eligible to claim a state pension, until a point whereby the Scottish Government would take over.

Are you really expecting the UK Government to pay for the pension of a 30 year old person living in Scotland even after Scotland is no longer part of the UK? Even though most of the contributions will have been made to the Scottish Government and not the UK Government.

The 'pension pot' is a lie, there is no such thing. You do not pay for your own state pension, you pay for the pensions of those claiming at the time. Your pension will be paid for by the people working and paying tax at the time you are claiming.

But then you're acting like a typical Independence supporter, wanting Scotland to do as it wishes whilst everyone else picks up the tab for it.

All I expect is for Scotland to pay for it's own pensions after they leave the UK. To take responsibility for it's own welfare costs.

I think we have just figured out the reason Scotland would be a rich Independent Country, because they would have everyone else pay it's bills.

Some people really should read back through a thread a wee bit before jumping in. I repeatedly stated that negotiations would more than likely take place after independence.

However, in the unlikely event a deal could not be reached, then the UK government will continue paying any pensions currently in payment and any future pensions to be paid based on UK contributions.

No question.

If no agreement was reached, people in Scotland would no longer have a pension, unless they earned it by working in the rUK. Scotland would no longer be part of the UK, and the UK Government would not be responsible for Scotland's welfare system.

And in what way will Scotland be 'independent' if the country is governed by the EU ?

You are just spouting opinionated nonsense. Any UK NI contributions paid and that meet the qualifying period would be paid at pension age.

Honestly, Bob gets his state pension in Moscow but not in Aberdeen. Behave yourself

I'm not sure..

The Scotland Act 2016 made the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government permanent. Some people think this is not worth the paper it is in written on.

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2014...-perspectives/

That article has something to say about what the Law of England has to say about the sovereignty of the British Parliament but it falls at the first hurdle by having nothing to say about what the Law of Scotland has to say on the sovereignty of the British Parliament.

An issue that will be raised at the Supreme Court of the United kingdom next month.

So an independent Scotland would rely on a foreign power to pay its pensions to Scottish pensioners.

Do you think this is appropriate?

But Scotland would have left the Uk and the UK would not be responsible for Scotland's NI contributions.

Those NI contributions would surely be accredited to Scotland on Independence Day. If not then that means the U.K. Could still own quite a lot of Scotland's assets surely?

I see you're going off on a tangent again. What has this got to do with the EU, which is what my comment was in reference to. Typical thomas, desperately clambering around trying to find anything to support your delusions.

None of the above affects Scotland lack of EU Membership.

You're still confusing the calculation for pension accrual and eligibility. The latter can change.

Bob would get his pension no matter if he lived in Moscow or Aberdeen, because he earned it in the UK. He would still be covered by the UK Government just like everyone else who moved here and qualified prior to moving elsewhere.

Anyone who earned a pension in the rUK would still be covered by the UK Government, people who earned a pension in Scotland would be covered by the Scottish Government.

The UK government would likely take care of all of the pensions until a time that Scotland had a system in place to take over. This would allow those who receive it to continue doing so during the interim period.
Once Scotland has a pension system in place, the Scottish Government would then be responsible for paying for pensions of those who earned one in Scotland, with the UK Government responsible for people that have earned one in the rUK.

The people of Scotland will still be eligible for a pension, the responsibility of providing this will be transferred to the Scottish Government instead of the UK Government. If the Scottish Government didn't provide one, the UK Government would not have to.

If the people in an Independent Scotland want provisions for a state pension, then they would have to pay for that themselves. The UK government won't be responsible for the welfare bill for the citizens of another country.

I did say I was not sure if Scotland had to be an independent country to remain in the EU.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a state comprising four countries. Scotland and England are Kingdoms. Each have their own laws.

Following the Scottish referendum, David Cameron made the Westminster Parliament the de facto parliament of England by introducing English votes for English laws.

This is where the Scotland Act 2016 confuses issues. It says the Scottish Parliament and Government are both permanent.

At this moment in time, both parliaments are sovereign.

The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has to decide if the sovereignty of Westminster and the Law of England trumps the sovereignty of Holyrood and the Law of Scotland.

The Supreme Court could decide it is for the devolved parliaments of each constituent country of the United Kingdom to decide if it wishes to remain or leave the EU.

And if Article 48 is amended as part of any agreement between the UK and the EU, it could enable Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, albeit as semi-autonomous states, to remain in the EU.

The only confusion is amongst you and your two pals.

It can change. But it would be a change across the board for all that are eligible. There would be no "except for viewers in Scotland" when it comes to eligibility.

If the rUK demanded sole successor status and there was no negotiations - then the continuing state is liable to pay out on the NI contributions paid in.

This is not some nationalist fantasy or me thinking its a great way for Scotland to dodge a burden. It is just fact. That is the way UK NI contributions are calculated and paid.

You don't even seem to be able to agree on 'Bob's' situation -

We have -

"possibly would not get" CSH

"Scotland would pay him" BS

"If he accrued it in rUK...likely be covered" STT

We have nonsense about how people who worked in Scotland would get a new Scottish pension, or none at all, from day one, meanwhile Scots that had worked in rUK would continue to receive the UK pension. How on earth would that even work?

Would someone who has lived in England all their lives but worked up in Scotland continue to receive their UK pension or must they switch? What about a couple from Glasgow who retired 5 years ago and now live in Cornwall?

It is quite clear you all have absolutely no idea what you are blathering about. Instead being reduced to petty rhetoric about "typical nationalists" and the like. Embarrassing.

So if Scotland remains in the EU how will that affect the Uk as a whole? Is it perhaps a way for th UK to remain in the EU by the back door, with all of the UKs exports going via Scotland and free movement going via Scotland to and from the UK? If every company in the U.K. Registered in Edinburgh and the stock market relocated a huge part of its business it might just work.

Is this what you might mean?

Eligibility would stay the same across the board in the UK... of course on independence that wouldn't apply to us.

To repeat... the Scottish Government have already said they would take on the responsibility of paying pensions.

It seems like he might not trust the Scottish Government to deliver on this.

It might make sense for pensioners to have some stability post independence if the SG can't manage to pay pensions.

Honestly! It is like debating with a gurgling drain.

I'm off out. You can all argue about they bloody-minded nationalists till the cows come home. Tip - don't look in a mirror

You're probably right and there will be a need for interim measures as part of the negotiations.... I say that because the Scottish Government don't want the new welfare powers until 2020.

Simple really. At the point of independenc the postcode you live in would determine who paid your pension.

However, I imagine you could opt out if your residence was temporary either way.

Do you disagree with our government when they say they will assume responsibility?

Your not debating, your regurgitating WOS none sense that even goeas against what the SNP have stated.

Scotland wouldn't be independent by then anyway. We have to Brexit first.

Soz my point was about how long it takes to transfer powers... supposedly 18 months for independence, but the Scottish Government want double that for the new welfare powers.

By saying you are not sure, you are claiming it is possible for Scotland to remain in, this is not the the case.


They are countries in name only. None of them are recognised by the UN as a Sovereign Nation, ie a Country.


It did not make Westminster the de-facto English Parliament at all, to claim it did is just hyperbolic.


The UK Parliament retains overall sovereignty. A devolved Parliament only holds the power that has been bestowed to it.


The Supreme Court cannot do this. This is far beyond it's powers. EU membership cannot be devolved. Membership of the EU is as the United Kingdom not as the Individual Nations that make up the UK. There is only 1 member state, not multiple individual member states.


If is correct. If it happens, but you talk about it as if it is likely to be happen when the scenario itself is highly unlikely.
There is little reason for such an amendment to be made, the decision to leave the EU was the result of a fair and democratic vote, involving all of the member state. Why would the EU get involved in an democratic matter simply because some don't like the outcome?
They are not barred from joining the EU in their own right, why would they grant them exception to allow them to join without going through the formal entry process.
It would be of no benefit to the vast majority of the EU member states to allow it, and would be granting them exemptions that many of the member states would have been grateful for when they joined.

As always, I expect you to ignore this and to continue posting about desperate attempts to defy the inevitable.

I really wish you would stop confusing different things and acting as if they are the same. Being recognised as the Successor state has no bearing on pensions.
Being the successor state doesn't mean the UK would have to pay for the pensions of people in Scotland.


That is the way they are calculated now, and as you say above, it can change. It will change, there is no way the UK would burden itself with paying for Scotland's Welfare bill after Scotland left the UK.

It may pay for the pensions of the people who worked elsewhere in the UK before moving to Scotland, but it certainly isn't going to pay for the pension bill of people who have lived and worked only in Scotland. That responsibility will be passed on to the Scottish Government, and if they don't offer one Scotland won't have a state pension.


No one knows what we are talking about really, because none of us are actually involved in it, none of us are professional dealing with the matter.
That being said, the notion that the UK would pay for the Scottish Pensions after Scotland leaves is just a complete and utter joke.
Essentially it would be English, Welsh and Northern Irish funding Scottish Pensions with no financial input from Scotland towards them. This is never going to happen.
For Scotland to offer a state pension you would have to create one for yourselves.

You can't even differentiate between how eligibility of the pension and how credits are accrued, mixing them together as if they are the same, and you think you can say people have no idea.

Pension credits in themselves are not a guarantee of receiving a state pension, because that depends on the terms in place when you become eligible to draw from your pension. All of pension credits I have and will accrue over the years will probably be worthless by the time I get to a pensionable age, the state pension will be a thing of the past.