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#2451 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
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How so?
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#2452 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Scotland
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Whether Scotland will do brilliantly I couldn't say what is clear is that the SNP is of no help to anyone outside Scotland and has no interest in other parts of the UK getting a reasonable outcome.
For that reason Sturgeon should put her case to the people again and preferably soon so that if necessary the rUK can remove Scotland from any part in the Brexit negotiations and move on. But we do need her to get moving and stop time wasting. The problem is Sturgeon knows the chances of success in a referendum anytime soon is very unlikely especially since a vote for independence would mean Scotland being out of the UK and the EU, along with the financial problems independence would bring. I think she would have to establish a central bank with our own currency and organize our economy in such a way that it would meet the standards required for a successful application for EU membership which would probably take years. By that time UK will be completely free of the EU with a better deal in my opinion than many pessimists seem to think. In the meantime she will continue to be a thorn in the side for the majority of people in Scotland and the rest of the UK in the hope of keeping her supporters on-side. As for an independent Scotland doing ' brilliantly on its own' in the foreseeable future is very wishful thinking. |
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#2453 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,818
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Quote:
..a vote for independence would mean Scotland being out of the UK and the EU..
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#2454 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,166
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Quote:
Scotland would still be in the UK and in the EU after a successful vote for independence in the summer, so how will your suggestion work in practice?
Of course if the Scottish people decided to vote to stay in the UK then the deal is for us all and HMG should pursue one that is as good as we can get and in those circumstances Sturgeon would have little option but to accept it. |
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#2455 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,047
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Quote:
Scotland would still be in the UK and in the EU after a successful vote for independence in the summer, so how will your suggestion work in practice?
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#2456 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
Whether Scotland will do brilliantly I couldn't say what is clear is that the SNP is of no help to anyone outside Scotland and has no interest in other parts of the UK getting a reasonable outcome.
For that reason Sturgeon should put her case to the people again and preferably soon so that if necessary the rUK can remove Scotland from any part in the Brexit negotiations and move on. But we do need her to get moving and stop time wasting. Subsequently there would be no further referendums for a long long time and Angus Robertson would be left with little to build on. The SNP realistically only get one more shot at independence in the near future and Sturgeon is not willing to chance this in the current economic climate. This is why a referendum has effectively been pushed back into the next Scottish Parliament. However, she has to try and keep all of her supporters content and hence the endless rhetoric. She has stated her priority for this Parliament is education. |
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#2457 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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I would say that she's put the independence referendum at the heart of the Brexit negotiations. Basically, unless there is a soft Brexit without Scotland remaining part of the single market, she'll call for a referendum. It puts May in an invidious position - the choice of giving Scotland special treatment or a good chance of losing Scotland.
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#2458 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,047
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Quote:
I think this is, again, just damage limitation. I think she's realised that she was a tad too hasty with her knee-jerk "another referendum" straight after the EU Referendum result and has realised that there isn't actually much of an electorate appetite for it, so she's playing a hand that makes it look like she's giving some sort of ultimatum when in actual fact, she knows she has no chance of winning it so is just seeking an excuse not to have it.
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#2459 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,166
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Given that the Polls clearly show no greater demand for independence post Brexit than in 2014 Sturgeon clearly cannot call a referendum as she would highly likely lose and with that lose her job too.
Subsequently there would be no further referendums for a long long time and Angus Robertson would be left with little to build on. The SNP realistically only get one more shot at independence in the near future and Sturgeon is not willing to chance this in the current economic climate. This is why a referendum has effectively been pushed back into the next Scottish Parliament. However, she has to try and keep all of her supporters content and hence the endless rhetoric. She has stated her priority for this Parliament is education. After a while even the most pro-Scottish of us begin to weary of her constant hectoring which is why it would be better to lance the boil and ask Scots to say once and for all (at least a period of ten years) what they want then negotiations could take account of the majority view in Scotland one way or the other. |
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#2460 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,947
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After a while even the most pro-Scottish of us begin to weary of her constant hectoring which is why it would be better to lance the boil and ask Scots to say once and for all (at least a period of ten years) what they want then negotiations could take account of the majority view in Scotland one way or the other.
As for the waiting to see if there is a soft-Brexit, which is a politically savvy move. She knows there is insufficient appetite right now, and they'd definitely need higher oil prices before the economic discussions start. Oil prices are likely to rise compared with now, but it's happening too slowly for a lot of the nationalistic faithful. This is a stalling tactic where the blame can, as usual, be aimed at Westminster. Should Britain have a soft-Brexit, then Sturgeon will inevitably take the credit. If not, then this will provide the opportunity for some agitation, and if it's somewhere inbetween then there can be some additional, blame-free stalling. |
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#2461 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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I obviously haven't the knowledge you have of how the Scottish people feel about another referendum but what I do know is that whilst the people of the rest of the UK want to get the best we can from the negotiations all we hear from Scotland is Sturgeon's constant demands and the so-called "threat" of another indy ref..
After a while even the most pro-Scottish of us begin to weary of her constant hectoring which is why it would be better to lance the boil and ask Scots to say once and for all (at least a period of ten years) what they want then negotiations could take account of the majority view in Scotland one way or the other. |
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#2462 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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Listen, Sturgeon knows that May is unlikely to give any concession to pro EU Scotland. It's important that the offer is made to hold off on a second referendum, in the short term, in return for concession. When May fails to give any concessions Sturgeon will be able to say she gave May the opportunity to delay a second referendum but May chose not to take it. Really I think you can put up with Scotland's demand for a special deal considering you expect us to put up with bring dragged out of the EU unwillingly. Your arrogance is palpable. The attitude from some in England toward Scotland is so colonial in tone and substance. There's such a lack of self awareness.
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#2463 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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Excellent irony. I am holidaying in Edinburgh in February and really hope to meet open minded people. I hope it isn't full of bigots and little Scotlanders.
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#2464 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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What's bigoted or little Scotlander about wanting to work with other people's and within the EU. It's clear for some the sound of Scots having a voice is too much to tolerate.
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#2465 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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What? Not at all sure what you are saying. I hope that when I go to Edinburgh It is a united city, not one full of miseries.
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#2466 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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How do you define a misery? Again is it Scots who are unhappy with being taken out of the EU that you think are being miserable? Are you also so arrogant?
I want to meet people that aren't fixated on one thing.
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#2467 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,336
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I think the nationalists are arrogant and don't accept that they don't represent the will of the bulk of the Scottish people.
I want to meet people that aren't fixated on one thing. ![]() |
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#2468 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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How do you know what the will of the bulk of Scots is? Also how do you define someone as being Scottish?
Soz.
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#2469 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William
Posts: 22,292
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I think the nationalists are arrogant and don't accept that they don't represent the will of the bulk of the Scottish people.
I want to meet people that aren't fixated on one thing. ![]() |
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#2470 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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Easy, most people don't discuss it. Just don't spend your time saying how great May or Farage are and you'll be fine.
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#2471 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Lanarkshire
Posts: 3,214
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I think the nationalists are arrogant and don't accept that they don't represent the will of the bulk of the Scottish people.
I want to meet people that aren't fixated on one thing. ![]() |
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#2472 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,562
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You're the one fixated. When you come to Edinburgh don't start asking people about politics. They'll think you are an arse.
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#2473 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,795
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Quote:
Listen, Sturgeon knows that May is unlikely to give any concession to pro EU Scotland. It's important that the offer is made to hold off on a second referendum, in the short term, in return for concession. When May fails to give any concessions Sturgeon will be able to say she gave May the opportunity to delay a second referendum but May chose not to take it. Really I think you can put up with Scotland's demand for a special deal considering you expect us to put up with bring dragged out of the EU unwillingly. Your arrogance is palpable. The attitude from some in England toward Scotland is so colonial in tone and substance. There's such a lack of self awareness.
As for this 'dragged out the EU unwillingly'. Lament away, but voting doesn't go everybody's own way. |
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#2474 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
Excellent irony. I am holidaying in Edinburgh in February and really hope to meet open minded people. I hope it isn't full of bigots and little Scotlanders.
![]() I assure you that unless you bring it up you will find very few people whose main topic of conversation will be about the referendum or independence. |
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#2475 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,468
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Quote:
How do you know what the will of the bulk of Scots is? Also how do you define someone as being Scottish?
The vast majority of us fall into the first category. How would you define it? |
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