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The Ed Balls and Katya Jones Appreciation thread


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Old 17-09-2016, 15:33
Ann_Dancer
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It could be worse Dervla and hopefully improving!

I've seen the torture device before. It is very commonly used, and someone in Strictly used it in a previous series.

Oh no! Ed must be doing the jive in week 2 (kick ball change)!
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Old 17-09-2016, 21:18
MaggieMcGee
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Thanks for the link Ann. I hope things aren't too hard in your life right now.

Here's another Torygraph thingy, complete with torture device http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/0...ows-you-gotta/
It could be worse Dervla and hopefully improving!

I've seen the torture device before. It is very commonly used, and someone in Strictly used it in a previous series.

Oh no! Ed must be doing the jive in week 2 (kick ball change)!
Good evening ladies. Thanks for the links and comments. Firstly, Ann I send you my best wishes for whatever is happening in your life right now. Secondly, Ed and Katya are a really good pairing. Having jive early on is a most mixed blessing because he can get a difficult dance that may not suit him at all out of the way quickly. Equally said dance may land him in an early DO and that will be the end of Ballsy He does have some cardio strength though because he has been a runner. But then being inflexible and with poor posture, bullying won't have helped, and no doubt weak core (especially in the glutes) may prove his undoing.
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Old 18-09-2016, 09:29
Ann_Dancer
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Thanks Maggie. Things are not too bad. I'm just hoping that Ed has a natural sense of rhythm which can make a big difference in a jive. Or that he turns in a jive in the style of Michael Vaughan!

I think Ed's ballroom hold looks quite good when he is still, which is a starting point. He will have to work on maintaining it, which I agree comes from core strength. Some people don't even look good when not moving!
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Old 18-09-2016, 09:49
MaggieMcGee
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Michael Vaughan's jive is one of my all time favourite Strictly dances The guy was fit and limbre but did look like he was 'busting for a pee'! He was such a good sport though and Natalie was in giggles after their dance finished. Brilliant TV moment.

I think one of the pro dancers one year, forget who and forget when, said you could teach someone rhythm. Is that true? I would have thought it to be innate.
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Old 18-09-2016, 12:46
Ann_Dancer
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You can definitely teach someone rhythm Maggie. I'm not sure whether anyone can learn but certainly those who say they have no sense of rhythm are giving up too easily.

I used to have a very poor sense of rhythm, unless it was something very simple like a waltz. I could not even pick up where the 1 2 3 4 pattern started in a cha cha. Even when I learnt how to do that, I still had the problem that in my mind I was stepping on time but was actually a bit late. Now I can count beats and bars, whilst dancing, to get a high grading for that element in a ballroom teaching exam, although I haven't done my tango teaching exam yet, and that is the the hardest to count, but mainly because the counting convention is a bit weird (at least it is for IDTA).

Musicality takes longer to acquire, if not natural. That is more about understanding phrasing, highlights, and when to hold slightly longer on a step and less on another in order to enhance the interpretation and performance.
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Old 18-09-2016, 20:37
MaggieMcGee
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You can definitely teach someone rhythm Maggie. I'm not sure whether anyone can learn but certainly those who say they have no sense of rhythm are giving up too easily.

I used to have a very poor sense of rhythm, unless it was something very simple like a waltz. I could not even pick up where the 1 2 3 4 pattern started in a cha cha. Even when I learnt how to do that, I still had the problem that in my mind I was stepping on time but was actually a bit late. Now I can count beats and bars, whilst dancing, to get a high grading for that element in a ballroom teaching exam, although I haven't done my tango teaching exam yet, and that is the the hardest to count, but mainly because the counting convention is a bit weird (at least it is for IDTA).

Musicality takes longer to acquire, if not natural. That is more about understanding phrasing, highlights, and when to hold slightly longer on a step and less on another in order to enhance the interpretation and performance.
Thanks for the full explanation. I understand musicality better than rhythm and in my head I have musicality! I can listen to a song and imagine the dance with phrasing.

Rhythm sounds so intuitive but when you refer to beats and bars and being slightly off the music, which I've heard before, then I get confused and feel lost.

Presumably to be a choreographer you must have a fine sense of musicality whereas a dancer can have rhythm and, at a novice level, a less fine sense of musicality.
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Old 18-09-2016, 22:20
Ann_Dancer
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Actually I think I've been a bit misleading. When we are talking about beats to a bar we are really talking about the time signature, not rhythm. For example in waltz 3/4. You can count it 123 123 123.....etc Or you could count it in beats and bars 123 223 323 etc. Rhythm is about how beats are emphasised in a repeating pattern. So in waltz there is a strong emphasis on the first beat in a bar which is the downswing (usually a heel lead). Waltz is phrased in groups of 8 bars I think. A phrase is a natural grouping of bars which rises and falls like a musical sentence. E.g Moon River, wider than a mile, I'm crossing you in style, some day. Yes, that would affect the choreography since it can influence where you might choose to put certain showy steps such as oversways. Finally although the beats theoretically have the same value you may choose to divide them up slightly differently when dancing and hold on to beat slightly longer for dramatic effect. And of course you may choose to include syncopated steps. But I've never done any choreography and so am not that knowledgeable on phrasing etc.
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Old 18-09-2016, 22:50
MaggieMcGee
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Actually I think I've been a bit misleading. When we are talking about beats to a bar we are really talking about the time signature, not rhythm. For example in waltz 3/4. You can count it 123 123 123.....etc Or you could count it in beats and bars 123 223 323 etc. Rhythm is about how beats are emphasised in a repeating pattern. So in waltz there is a strong emphasis on the first beat in a bar which is the downswing (usually a heel lead). Waltz is phrased in groups of 8 bars I think. A phrase is a natural grouping of bars which rises and falls like a musical sentence. E.g Moon River, wider than a mile, I'm crossing you in style, some day. Yes, that would affect the choreography since it can influence where you might choose to put certain showy steps such as oversways. Finally although the beats theoretically have the same value you may choose to divide them up slightly differently when dancing and hold on to beat slightly longer for dramatic effect. And of course you may choose to include syncopated steps. But I've never done any choreography and so am not that knowledgeable on phrasing etc.
Wow! My mind is blown ... but it's very interesting. Now when you write "rhythm is about how beats are emphasised" this makes sense and for me links to what I'm interpreting by musicality because it is a sensitivity, or sympathy, with the music. Re BIB, do you have an example? No worries if not.

Btw, to bring this back onto topic, no wonder Ed struggles with the amount of info he must think about and process into movement!
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Old 18-09-2016, 23:44
Dervlathedog
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Facinating discussion you're both having! I guess it's like poetry in movement.

Shakespeare is iambic pentameter. Di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum and that would be like the time signature. But when there are words instead of di dums, and all of the confusion, interruptions, feelings and anger of whatever the drama is, those regular metric feet behave differently. Some syllables demand to be longer, louder or softer, said with reluctance or haste etc whilst not actually breaking the meter. And that natural emphasis is the rhythm of the lines.

Then I write a lot of ??????s cos I'm not quite sure.

In my mind's eye, I'm watching Patrick and Anya jumping up the stairs in their American Smooth. The beats stay constant but the whole dance slowed down to that childlike joy. In truth all SCD series ever slow down for me to those stairs. It was a real moment. I'm sure Ann's thinking of something more subtle and continuous than the stair jumps (but I completely loved Anya's choreography for Patrick)
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Old 18-09-2016, 23:45
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I just poured a lot of very chilly organic grape juice down my cleavage
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Old 19-09-2016, 11:37
Ann_Dancer
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I just poured a lot of very chilly organic grape juice down my cleavage
I'm always doing that Dervla! Yes, Shakespeare and poetry in general, and the different ways in which they can be recited, are good comparisons.

Maggie, I'm not expert on this I'm afraid. For Waltz, the first beat in the bar is always emphasised but you might also hold on other beats to make them big and showy. The 'Quicks' in a Foxtrot Feather (Slow, Quick, Quick) are not always danced as exactly the same size (1 beat) either as it would feel a bit plodding. Lots of running steps are syncopated (running weave) because you are stepping on the 'and' as well as the main beat sometimes.

I forgot to say that the bars in a waltz also come in pairs and have a slightly different feel, but I remember my dance teacher saying this when he was choreographing something for me. It's explained here: https://sites.google.com/site/letsda...v/--musicality. Actually they also talk about sets of 16 (so that would be the first two lines of Moon River rather than just the first one).

You might be better posting something in Jennifer's technical questions thread about musicality. I'm sure she could explain it better. Also I think there are videos on Youtube of Luca Baricchi (a very well known dancer) discussing and demonstrating it.
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Old 19-09-2016, 20:13
MaggieMcGee
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Facinating discussion you're both having! I guess it's like poetry in movement.

Shakespeare is iambic pentameter. Di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum and that would be like the time signature. But when there are words instead of di dums, and all of the confusion, interruptions, feelings and anger of whatever the drama is, those regular metric feet behave differently. Some syllables demand to be longer, louder or softer, said with reluctance or haste etc whilst not actually breaking the meter. And that natural emphasis is the rhythm of the lines.

Then I write a lot of ??????s cos I'm not quite sure.

In my mind's eye, I'm watching Patrick and Anya jumping up the stairs in their American Smooth. The beats stay constant but the whole dance slowed down to that childlike joy. In truth all SCD series ever slow down for me to those stairs. It was a real moment. I'm sure Ann's thinking of something more subtle and continuous than the stair jumps (but I completely loved Anya's choreography for Patrick)
I just poured a lot of very chilly organic grape juice down my cleavage
I'm always doing that Dervla! Yes, Shakespeare and poetry in general, and the different ways in which they can be recited, are good comparisons.

Maggie, I'm not expert on this I'm afraid. For Waltz, the first beat in the bar is always emphasised but you might also hold on other beats to make them big and showy. The 'Quicks' in a Foxtrot Feather (Slow, Quick, Quick) are not always danced as exactly the same size (1 beat) either as it would feel a bit plodding. Lots of running steps are syncopated (running weave) because you are stepping on the 'and' as well as the main beat sometimes.

I forgot to say that the bars in a waltz also come in pairs and have a slightly different feel, but I remember my dance teacher saying this when he was choreographing something for me. It's explained here: https://sites.google.com/site/letsda...v/--musicality. Actually they also talk about sets of 16 (so that would be the first two lines of Moon River rather than just the first one).

You might be better posting something in Jennifer's technical questions thread about musicality. I'm sure she could explain it better. Also I think there are videos on Youtube of Luca Baricchi (a very well known dancer) discussing and demonstrating it.
Dear Ann and Dervla, thanks very much. I still don't get it and believe it's me, not your explanations. It's like almost there and then it eludes me.

As to the grape juice - mucky pups you both!
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Old 24-09-2016, 20:49
MaggieMcGee
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I thought Ed did well tonight. It was a safe routine from Katya, which reflects his limitations but his footwork seemed sound to me - hope Ann pops in to remark on this. He was under marked and did not deserve bottom of the leader board. I think Melvin was worse, which pains me as I like Melvin.

I may have to vote for Ed next week and I would not have voted for him as a politician!!
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Old 24-09-2016, 21:24
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I think he was disappointed in himself but you could see that he had done his best, and he was not the worst new dancer IMO. Well done to him, the start of a journey.
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Old 24-09-2016, 21:38
Ann_Dancer
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He probably danced it much better in dress rehearsal. That's always the way. He did well. It isn't just his lack of dance experience that puts him at a disadvantage but also his lack of performance experience.

Maggie, Yes his footwork wasn't bad in that the heel leads were present, but the judges were right in that he needs to get onto the balls of his feet on the second and third steps. It was a bit flat.

I thought he did quite a good job in retaining his posture.

I agree that I would have put him above Melvin.

I hope he stays past the second week as he is working hard. Katya is sweet too.
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Old 24-09-2016, 21:39
MaggieMcGee
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He probably danced it much better in dress rehearsal. That's always the way. He did well. It isn't just his lack of dance experience that puts him at a disadvantage but also his lack of performance experience.

Maggie, Yes his footwork wasn't bad in that the heel leads were present, but the judges were right in that he needs to get onto the balls of his feet on the second and third steps. It was a bit flat.

I thought he did quite a good job in retaining his posture.

I agree that I would have pur him above Melvin.

I hope he stays Past the second week.
Thank you. I shall re-watch with this in mind. I find your input so valuable.
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Old 24-09-2016, 23:37
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I'd rather have Ed Balls than Danny Mac.

Maybe he was better in rehearsal but he was better than I was expecting. Which judge said their were touches of elegance? I thought so too. Onwards and upwards. For the genuine beginners my hope always is that they have that one dance where it clicks and to music that they love... I hope Ed and Katya will get their one dance they can be proud of.

Bloody well done 🌹
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:29
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Well done to Ed. I thought he did a very good job as a complete beginner, and I liked the little touch of Strictlification with his sparkly shirt.👏
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Old 25-09-2016, 13:31
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I thought Ed did well last night and considering the praise heaped on some, Craig's comments were a tad harsh.

He was a heck of a lot better than I expected him to be and he seems nervous/ humble which is endearing.

I hope he isnt first out
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:02
Ann_Dancer
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I hope he survives week 2. I have a suspicion he has the jive next week. Have to be honest and say his steps were very simple (mainly basics danced in shadow or in hold) but Katya was clever with the choreography making it look more varied and so kudos to her too.
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:03
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I felt bad for Ed, the judges comments were unnecessarily harsh. At least he tried

Vote Ed!

Balls for the win!
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Old 26-09-2016, 12:06
Ann_Dancer
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Thought you might all be interested to hear that Brendan's blog says Ed looked good in rehearsals, definitely not bottom and that something must have gone wrong. I think nerves must have got to him a bit, although it still wasn't a bad attempt (and more varied in steps than I thought on rewatching it)
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Old 26-09-2016, 12:54
Dervlathedog
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Thought you might all be interested to hear that Brendan's blog says Ed looked good in rehearsals, definitely not bottom and that something must have gone wrong. I think nerves must have got to him a bit, although it still wasn't a bad attempt (and more varied in steps than I thought on rewatching it)
Thank you -- good find. Let's hope he does better next week. Maybe he needed to get nerves out of the way. Done that, tried that...
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Old 27-09-2016, 03:45
Olivia_P
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Katya's choreography was fresh and sweet and Ed was not awkwardly awful as it often happens with his types in week 1 (and sometimes, every week until the elimination). I cannot vote, but Katya has my admiration and Ed my respect.
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Old 27-09-2016, 21:51
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I suprised myself by liking Ed. Hope the public are kind to him when it comes to the vote.
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