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John Barrowman says "certain egos" are blocking Torchwood's return


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Old 13-09-2016, 20:39
performingmonk
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It's not particularly surprising that Moffat and Barrowman would clash. Both of them have fair sized egos, to put it mildly... but it IS a tad idiotic for John to imply that Steven has blocked a TW return.

For a start, a TW return has only really been pushed for recently, and Moffat is on his way out anyway so why would he care about it coming back? He may well have blocked John's return to DW....who knows? but that's unrelated to the future of TW.

The more likely scenario is that Chibnall would be more welcoming of its return than other producers, seeing as he was basically in charge of it for 2 series'.
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Old 13-09-2016, 22:29
doctor blue box
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Considering that Jack was almost brought back for a good man goes to war, and so presumably things were all well and good then between Barrowman and Moffat, it makes you wonder when things turned sour between the two of them.
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Old 13-09-2016, 23:40
Sora2311
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Things probably turned sour after John wasn't asked to be in the 50th
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Old 14-09-2016, 00:19
rionia
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The reality is that Torchwood was probably seen as having peaked with "Children of Earth" and that the co-production that resulted in "Miracle Day" was probably a failure and there's no drive to make any more.

Starz didn't consider it a failure. But wanted another series only if RTD did it. They said at the time they were prepared to wait for him. (It was said at one of the studio/media events that the execs of Starz went to, it was reported at the time). If I remember rightly they were a bit p**d that RTD had gone off to do a show for another network (HBO I think). When RTD had to return suddenly to the UK due to his partners illness, the HBO project got shelved , as did any possibility of doing a future TW for Starz as well
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Old 14-09-2016, 00:55
Brandon_Smith
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I actually never watched past the first four episodes of Torchwood, do you guys recommend it because after reading this thread I feel inclined to never watch it
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Old 14-09-2016, 09:54
doctor blue box
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I actually never watched past the first four episodes of Torchwood, do you guys recommend it because after reading this thread I feel inclined to never watch it
Personal opinion. Some, like me, thoroughly enjoyed it, whereas others didn't. If you like Captain Jack as a character, and you want to see the more serious side of him, working as head of a team, and you liked the RTD era of who, then you might like it.

Things probably turned sour after John wasn't asked to be in the 50th
Could be. Especially since Barrowman asked the producers of arrow to work around any who appearances he might be asked to do. I hear he still has that agreement so is probably feeling embarassed and annoyed that there is no doctor who or Torchwood forthcoming. Not that I'm saying that they should have to have him in who or bring back Torchwood based on his demanding, but at the same time, when you get shows where producers want to bring it back but the stars won't return, it's a shame to have a situation where a star is so dedicated to the character, despite having big success elsewhere, yet doesn't get offered to play it again.


Anyway, after all this bad blood between them, I suppose I had better put away my hopes of Jack appearing in either this Christmas special or any episodes before Chibnall starts.


In light of all this I'm surprised Moffat gave Jack a mention last series even.
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Old 14-09-2016, 11:49
Saxon Bury
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Steven Moffat had stated years ago that he wanted Jack in series 6 but schedules did not work out, which explains the creation of Madame Vastra.

Having River Song and Vastra in Steven Moffat's Doctor Who era (both of which Mr Moffat created and owns) makes using another high concept and "colourful" semi-companion a little redundant, especially when he would need RTD to sign off on any of Jacks' appearances as well as all of his actions and dialogue.

Perhaps John should direct his aggression and comments towards the one person who created and co-owns Torchwood and the Captain Jack character. Surely any hesitation or lack of interest regarding a new series lies in that direction.
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Old 14-09-2016, 12:53
maggie thecat
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There was an interview with RTD post Miracle Day, where he said he had one more story for Gwen. The implication at the time was that Jack's story was done and if he appeared at all, it would be in a subsidiary role. I know Barrowman thinks Torchwood is all about Jack, but it never really has been. It's always been Gwen's story,
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Old 14-09-2016, 12:58
Saxon Bury
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There was an interview with RTD post Miracle Day, where he said he had one more story for Gwen. The implication at the time was that Jack's story was done and if he appeared at all, it would be in a subsidiary role. I know Barrowman thinks Torchwood is all about Jack, but it never really has been. It's always been Gwen's story,
True. If you think about it, Jack Harness is essentially just John Barrowman in a coat.
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Old 14-09-2016, 13:42
doctor blue box
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Steven Moffat had stated years ago that he wanted Jack in series 6 but schedules did not work out, which explains the creation of Madame Vastra.

Having River Song and Vastra in Steven Moffat's Doctor Who era (both of which Mr Moffat created and owns) makes using another high concept and "colourful" semi-companion a little redundant, especially when he would need RTD to sign off on any of Jacks' appearances as well as all of his actions and dialogue.

Perhaps John should direct his aggression and comments towards the one person who created and co-owns Torchwood and the Captain Jack character. Surely any hesitation or lack of interest regarding a new series lies in that direction.
There was River, which didn't stop him creating Vastra, which then didn't stop him creating the 'Missy' incarnation of the master. And after creating all those I still don't think Moffat's era feels exactly overstuffed with side companions, because whilst they have similar traits, they are all different enough to work. I'm often more impressed with Moffats sort-of side companions than his actual companions or writing of his doctor incarnations.

A captain Jack appearance in Moffat's who would be different because it would be a strong, fun, colourful character who was actually a man. A gender which Moffat doesn't seem to be able to create these characters in himself.

He even had to change the Master into a woman to be able to write the character well (although I do enjoy the resulting character, and would enjoy her even more if she was actually given something big to do)


Besides, regarding the RTD sign off stuff you mentioned, I doubt it's too much of a problem, because it hasn't stopped them using the Ood since his departure. Also, I'm pretty certain that RTD would just need to give permission to use the character, not insist on reading the script and approving the dialogue as you suggest.
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Old 14-09-2016, 14:58
Lord Smexy
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Ah, the culmination of Barrowman's recent professionalism. I'm sure it has convinced the BBC to place Torchwood in his care
Well, he wasn't wrong when he said "certain egos" are blocking Torchwood's return. His own.
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Old 14-09-2016, 14:59
Lord Smexy
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I actually never watched past the first four episodes of Torchwood, do you guys recommend it because after reading this thread I feel inclined to never watch it
I think it's generally agreed that once you're through those first four episodes, the worst is over.
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Old 14-09-2016, 15:08
Saxon Bury
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There was River, which didn't stop him creating Vastra, which then didn't stop him creating the 'Missy' incarnation of the master. And after creating all those I still don't think Moffat's era feels exactly overstuffed with side companions, because whilst they have similar traits, they are all different enough to work. I'm often more impressed with Moffats sort-of side companions than his actual companions or writing of his doctor incarnations.

A captain Jack appearance in Moffat's who would be different because it would be a strong, fun, colourful character who was actually a man. A gender which Moffat doesn't seem to be able to create these characters in himself.

He even had to change the Master into a woman to be able to write the character well (although I do enjoy the resulting character, and would enjoy her even more if she was actually given something big to do)


Besides, regarding the RTD sign off stuff you mentioned, I doubt it's too much of a problem, because it hasn't stopped them using the Ood since his departure. Also, I'm pretty certain that RTD would just need to give permission to use the character, not insist on reading the script and approving the dialogue as you suggest.
RTD and Steven Moffat's "sort-of" companions (I like that) are always going to be more interesting because they can get away with stuff the Doctor and the "official" companion cannot do (killing etc).

Its always fun to have a unreliable and unpredictable character in Doctor Who but it risks making the Doctor into the straight man (in comedy terms). That's why they need to be occasional appearances only, in my opinion.

With regard to characters owned by other writers, we know both head writers have given permission for other media (Big Finish for one) to use characters they have created (Strax, Donna Noble etc.) but it would be interesting to know how much control or veto is kept by the original writer.

RTD has previously refused the use of the Face Of Boe for any spin off fiction.
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Old 14-09-2016, 15:11
Saxon Bury
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Well, he wasn't wrong when he said "certain egos" are blocking Torchwood's return. His own.
If there's anything more important than my ego on this ship, I want it caught and shot right now.
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Old 14-09-2016, 17:25
andy1231
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I think JB wants to return to the role because he just loves the character. Lets be honest he doesn't need the money or the profile as he is doing so well in the states at the moment. I believe he just wants to play Jack again because he loves playing him, it doesn't matter if it's a new Torchwood series (yes please) of just a return to Doctor Who.
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Old 14-09-2016, 17:45
Lenitive
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The thing is Jack is no longer immortal so John Barrowman could come back as Jack but he would have visibly aged.
I don't see the big deal, it's a sci-fi show that had pet pterodactyls. I'm sure they can provide some timey-wimey nonsense explanation. No one cares, they just want the TW gang back together.
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Old 14-09-2016, 20:34
doctor blue box
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RTD and Steven Moffat's "sort-of" companions (I like that) are always going to be more interesting because they can get away with stuff the Doctor and the "official" companion cannot do (killing etc).

Its always fun to have a unreliable and unpredictable character in Doctor Who but it risks making the Doctor into the straight man (in comedy terms). That's why they need to be occasional appearances only, in my opinion.

With regard to characters owned by other writers, we know both head writers have given permission for other media (Big Finish for one) to use characters they have created (Strax, Donna Noble etc.) but it would be interesting to know how much control or veto is kept by the original writer.

RTD has previously refused the use of the Face Of Boe for any spin off fiction.
I'm guessing maybe that's because of the way it was left as a fun tease where it was highly suggested but unconfirmed that he was jack, RTD probably thought it would be a shame to ruin that by elaborating on details of the face of boe in fiction.
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Old 15-09-2016, 13:05
Talma
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Torchwood and Captain Jack are two relics from a bygone era that I have no desire to see back. Whilst I liked it a lot at the time as a 13 year old, a lot of Torchwood is frankly embarrassing and cringeworthy to watch in my opinion (excluding CoE, obviously).
Fair enough, don't watch it. Some of us enjoyed it (most of it) and would love to see more. As long as it wasn't like Miracle Day.

Ironically I think the show could have been much more successful without Captain Jack and if it did come back I'd prefer it if he wasn't in it.
I certainly wouldn't have watched it without Jack and I doubt that many others would have. The rest of the characters were pretty much unlikeable for a lot of the run, apart from Tosh, and it needed Jack to hold it together.

There was an interview with RTD post Miracle Day, where he said he had one more story for Gwen. The implication at the time was that Jack's story was done and if he appeared at all, it would be in a subsidiary role. I know Barrowman thinks Torchwood is all about Jack, but it never really has been. It's always been Gwen's story,
And that was the problem, Gwen was an irritating character who had far too much airtime.

I actually never watched past the first four episodes of Torchwood, do you guys recommend it because after reading this thread I feel inclined to never watch it
IMO the first two series were a bit erratic but definitely worth watching once it settled down. Children of Earth was very well made but utterly and totally depressing if you have any attachment to the characters involved. Miracle Day was unremittingly awful.

I think JB wants to return to the role because he just loves the character. Lets be honest he doesn't need the money or the profile as he is doing so well in the states at the moment. I believe he just wants to play Jack again because he loves playing him, it doesn't matter if it's a new Torchwood series (yes please) of just a return to Doctor Who.
I think that too, it's not like he needs the work, he loves the character and wants a chance to play him again.
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Old 15-09-2016, 17:13
andy1231
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The thing is Jack is no longer immortal so John Barrowman could come back as Jack but he would have visibly aged.
Yes he is, at the end of Miracle Day his immortality was restored.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:39
pferreira
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I thought when everything went back to normal that included jack being back to being immortal.

At the end of Miracle Day his immortality is passed on which leaves it on a cliffhanger.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:42
pferreira
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Yes he is, at the end of Miracle Day his immortality was restored.
Really? But I thought it got handed over to the other guy?
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Old 07-10-2016, 11:32
HOAddict
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So says a big ego!

Maybe TW just wasn't popular enough...Miracle Day wasn't particularly good. The BBC certainly gave it a chance, what with the event that was Children of Earth - which was the high mark as far as TW was concerned. Sadly, I guess the execs were hoping for the same from Miracle Day and it just didn't deliver.
If they were really hoping that, they should have avoided all the American nonsense.
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Old 08-10-2016, 22:12
rebecca87
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I was always quite fond of Barrowman back in the day but he's really shown himself to be a small little man with an oversized ego. It's never a good idea to badmouth and lie about the people who helped you on your way up. That CW money train won't last forever.
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Old 09-10-2016, 13:32
rionia
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I was always quite fond of Barrowman back in the day but he's really shown himself to be a small little man with an oversized ego. It's never a good idea to badmouth and lie about the people who helped you on your way up. That CW money train won't last forever.
??? From the various vids I've seen of Barrowman, he always says what he thinks, or believes to be true. Apparently whoever he spoke to (at the BBC?) came up with more than one reason why TW wouldn't be returning anytime soon. Its quite possible that JB misunderstood what he was being told. But I doubt very much that it was a deliberate lie by JB
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Old 09-10-2016, 14:15
Steven_P
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I haven't see Torchwood in years.. I have the DVDs except series 4 which I disliked, but they are in a box at the moment and I can't be bothered. Maybe in a few years I'll re discover it but I think it's time is done now and should be left in the past. Series 4 really killed it.
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