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BBC Loses Great British Bakeoff
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Ash_M1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“Do you want to just read the tabloids and try to accept Love Productions poor defence.

And GBBO is Masterchef in a tent, another rip off?

Simon Cowell ripped off Pop Idol and Opportunity knocks.

Did Love Productions " copyright " - all their so called ideas.

So Love Productions have all " hobbies" on exclusive contracts like paintings?”

You are right. Not-So-Much-Love for Love Productions represent all that is wrong with the private sector. They operate like vultures, putting profits before people. The BBC should have nothing more to do with them. They have burnt their bridges.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“You are right. Not-So-Much-Love for Love Productions represent all that is wrong with the private sector. They operate like vultures, putting profits before people. The BBC should have nothing more to do with them.”

Alleged yearly cost of The Great British Bakeoff requested by private company Love Productions:
£25 million

Known yearly cost of licence fee collection requested and paid to private company Capita:
£101.4 million

Vultures putting profits before people. All that is wrong with the private sector. So clearly the BBC should have nothing more to do with Capita, right Ash?
Ash_M1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“How sweet.. However, unlike the Bbc.. I can write NATO and NASA correctly..



Both were top shows. Both lost their presenters. One failed miserably in it's new, improved version. Will C4's do the same? If it doesn't, what might that say about the abilities of the producers?”

jElliED, you fail continuously to refer to the BBC correctly, so don't be surprised to be picked up on it.

GBBO will fail on 4 because it will no longer be GBBO...and it will serve the production company right. Greed should never be rewarded.
David_Flett1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“And nothing at all to do with how the BBC had soured the relationship with Love Productions by repeatedly ripping off their formats and antagonising them in other ways.

Right.”

Can you point me in the direction where the BBC have ripped off Love Production formats. It may be an appropriate time to point out that Love Productions could not sell the format to anyone in the commercial sector for four years before the BBC took it up. The first season attracted only 2 million viewers and if on a commercial channel would most likely have been dropped. Although the format remained the same, the BBC dropped many of the segments about baking terms and examples and concentrated more on the personalities of the presenters and contestants. They promoted it heavily and gave it a primetime slot on BBC One. Had the BBC not taken it on the GBBO may have only saw the light of day on one of the minor freeview channels or hidden away on daytime TV like Come Dine With Me.

The danger for the BBC is there is far too much government interference, insisting on quotas for external independent productions and therefore less control over owning the rights or even developing new ideas in house.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by David_Flett1:
“Can you point me in the direction where the BBC have ripped off Love Production formats.”

There have been a number of examples given in this, or the other thread, not least 'Hair!' on BBC3, which the BBC setlled out-of-court over.
Charnham
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“Why is GBBO successful?

1. It is on the ad-free, prime-time BBC One
2.It's content and tone is very British, very BBC
3.The contestants are 'normal' and 'natural'
4.It is non-sensational, essentially easy watching
5.The roles Mel and Sue and Paul and Mary play”

some of this I agree with.

1) it found its auidence on BBC 2 first, before moving to BBC One.

2) very true, could make it tricker for international markets to replicate.


4) you mean the same show who make a big deal about something going in a bin, and something about Jaffa Cakes?
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“2) very true, could make it tricker for international markets to replicate.”

The BBC don't seem to think so - they sell the format rights to GBBO around the world.
Charnham
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“The BBC don't seem to think so - they sell the format rights to GBBO around the world.”

that is BBC Worldwide choice however I dont think we can critise BBCWW for selling a program they know might be tricky to recreate in another market, its not on BBCWW to tell buyers this, its on the buyers to work that out for themselves. However since it seems the IQ of TV types is so low that C4 paid £75 million with any of the key talent signed up, I guess its like taking candy from a baby for BBCWW.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“that is BBC Worldwide choice however I dont think we can critise BBCWW for selling a program they know might be tricky to recreate in another market, its not on BBCWW to tell buyers this, its on the buyers to work that out for themselves. However since it seems the IQ of TV types is so low that C4 paid £75 million with any of the key talent signed up, I guess its like taking candy from a baby for BBCWW.”

So you're accusing BBC Worldwide of exactly the kind of shady and disgraceful behaviour which Ash condemns Love Productions for allegedly engaging in.
David_Flett1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Alleged yearly cost of The Great British Bakeoff requested by private company Love Productions:
£25 million

Known yearly cost of licence fee collection requested and paid to private company Capita:
£101.4 million

Vultures putting profits before people. All that is wrong with the private sector. So clearly the BBC should have nothing more to do with Capita, right Ash?”

Yearly cost to the licence payer by the government using the licence fee to fund other projects and policies outside the BBC. £500 million. Rising to £1.1 billion each year by 2021 and £1.5 billion by the end of the next charter. By the end of the next charter each licence payer will have forked out nearly £500 to the government not one single minute of BBC content or services. Meantime the government and Ofcom will sit very quietly and continue to allow SKY, BT and Virgin to use our communications charges to bolster their bids for sporting and entertainment rights and drive subscriptions.

Later this year we will see early negotiations for the Champions League rights followed next year for the next Premier League deal. SKY have to bid big because if they lose they are likely to lose millions of broadband and communications customers as well as entertainment and sport. BT may bet the bank on it as they have EE and a very strong cash reserve, they may lose out to SKY again but bundling ensures no one wins and our phone and broadband is likely to still keep rising faster than inflation or investment in the infrastructure.

But who really cares as you have pointed out the main complaint about the BBC is not the government taking £500 out of their pocket it is Capita or how much they pay presenters or losing the GBBO. It really is about time we concentrated on what we are paying for and where the money goes and the cost of our other services.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by David_Flett1:
“Yearly cost to the licence payer by the government using the licence fee to fund other projects and policies outside the BBC. £500 million. Rising to £1.1 billion each year by 2021 and £1.5 billion by the end of the next charter.”

As we say on Wikipedia: "Citation needed."
Ash_M1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by David_Flett1:
“Yearly cost to the licence payer by the government using the licence fee to fund other projects and policies outside the BBC. £500 million. Rising to £1.1 billion each year by 2021 and £1.5 billion by the end of the next charter. By the end of the next charter each licence payer will have forked out nearly £500 to the government not one single minute of BBC content or services. Meantime the government and Ofcom will sit very quietly and continue to allow SKY, BT and Virgin to use our communications charges to bolster their bids for sporting and entertainment rights and drive subscriptions.

Later this year we will see early negotiations for the Champions League rights followed next year for the next Premier League deal. SKY have to bid big because if they lose they are likely to lose millions of broadband and communications customers as well as entertainment and sport. BT may bet the bank on it as they have EE and a very strong cash reserve, they may lose out to SKY again but bundling ensures no one wins and our phone and broadband is likely to still keep rising faster than inflation or investment in the infrastructure.

But who really cares as you have pointed out the main complaint about the BBC is not the government taking £500 out of their pocket it is Capita or how much they pay presenters or losing the GBBO. It really is about time we concentrated on what we are paying for and where the money goes and the cost of our other services.”

Absolutely right in every way my friend.
Charnham
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“So you're accusing BBC Worldwide of exactly the kind of shady and disgraceful behaviour which Ash condemns Love Productions for allegedly engaging in.”

first of all I have accused Love Productions of plenty myself, HOWEVER WTF no I am not accusing BBC WW of anything shady or underhand, they are selling a TV format, that is it, I honestly can not see anything underhand in BBC WW selling the Bake Off format, its not for BBC WW to make the program suitable to another market, that is for the broadcaster, I think that is understood by all parties.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“first of all I have accused Love Productions of plenty myself, HOWEVER WTF no I am not accusing BBC WW of anything shady or underhand, they are selling a TV format, that is it, I honestly can not see anything underhand in BBC WW selling the Bake Off format, its not for BBC WW to make the program suitable to another market, that is for the broadcaster, I think that is understood by all parties.”

Well, you're the one claiming that the format would be useless in other territiories "but it's not for BBC WW to tell them that". And in any case, your base claim is quite incorrect as the show is seen in nearly 200 countries around the world. There's no question of it being a "uniquely British curiosity" that wouldn't work elsewhere.
Ash_M1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“first of all I have accused Love Productions of plenty myself, HOWEVER WTF no I am not accusing BBC WW of anything shady or underhand, they are selling a TV format, that is it, I honestly can not see anything underhand in BBC WW selling the Bake Off format, its not for BBC WW to make the program suitable to another market, that is for the broadcaster, I think that is understood by all parties.”

Absolutely right.

We are incredibly fortunate to have the BBC in this county, a public broadcaster many nations would love to have. Sadly, some around these parts don't have the right values and will attack (make up) whatever they like in order to be negative.
noise747
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“It won't be the same, so it's a 'no' from me. I will follow the BBC's replacement.”

But you would not even give it a go, it will be on a commercial channel and you will never watch anything on them.
It is is any good, I will be able to watch it once it is on channel 4 without a Tv licence.
Ash_M1
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by noise747:
“But you would not even give it a go, it will be on a commercial channel and you will never watch anything on them.
It is is any good, I will be able to watch it once it is on channel 4 without a Tv licence.”

You should know the law by now noise. You need a licence to watch Ch4.

I have no interest in watching Bake Off on 4 because it won't be the same show I enjoy on the Beeb. I will watch whatever the Beeb puts in it's place.
Charnham
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Well, you're the one claiming that the format would be useless in other territiories "but it's not for BBC WW to tell them that". And in any case, your base claim is quite incorrect as the show is seen in nearly 200 countries around the world. There's no question of it being a "uniquely British curiosity" that wouldn't work elsewhere.”

if you wish to quote me, please actually quote me, rather than spin my words.

My words were "tricker for international markets to replicate." tricker does not equal useless, and whist some markets may sell it as British kitch, that can is not always going to be mass market.

As for the international formats, which is what I was talking about, and what I believed you were talking about, there are not 200 local versions of the format, A number of those have been unsuccesful, and some of them have been given a second change by another channel, its not the easy sell that Pop Idol was, it is a show that the local channels have had to work a bit more on.

I do not take issue with us agreeing that the British nature of the show makes its harder to replicate locally, what I take issue with you saying that I am accusing BBC WW of something.
brianeccleston
15-09-2016
[quote=Ash_M1;83946673]You should know the law by now noise. You need a licence to watch Ch4.

Would be able to watch on all4 without a licence.
Antbox
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“if you wish to quote me, please actually quote me, rather than spin my words.

My words were "tricker for international markets to replicate."”

I did actually quote you. let me quote you again. I'll add my own bold.
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“that is BBC Worldwide choice however I dont think we can critise BBCWW for selling a program they know might be tricky to recreate in another market, its not on BBCWW to tell buyers this, its on the buyers to work that out for themselves. However since it seems the IQ of TV types is so low that C4 paid £75 million with any of the key talent signed up, I guess its like taking candy from a baby for BBCWW.”

Originally Posted by Charnham:
“I do not take issue with us agreeing that the British nature of the show makes its harder to replicate locally, what I take issue with you saying that I am accusing BBC WW of something.”

I don't think I misquoted you. Your intention with the winky smile, the "not on BBCWW to tell buyers this, it's on the buyers to work that out for themselves", and the "like taking candy from a baby for BBCWW' comment were very clear - it was obvious what you meant.

It's not important, either way.
Ash_M1
15-09-2016
[quote=brianeccleston;83946761]
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“You should know the law by now noise. You need a licence to watch Ch4.

Would be able to watch on all4 without a licence.”

Right, but did he say that? He was a bit ambiguous in my view.

Be that as it may, content costs. There are some who forget this.
Charnham
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“I did actually quote you. let me quote you again. I'll add my own bold.



I don't think I misquoted you. Your intention with the winky smile, the "not on BBCWW to tell buyers this, it's on the buyers to work that out for themselves", and the "like taking candy from a baby for BBCWW' comment were very clear - it was obvious what you meant.

It's not important, either way.”

it was more of a knock at Channel 4 than anything else, new presenters and judges are something any international version of the shows, already knows they are going to need. I was also reminding your that it is BBC WW that shows the sell, not the BBC as you stated in your post.
andys corner
15-09-2016
glad its gone, more money now for sport or comedy.......

oh hang on, this is the bbc, we won't get anything like that
mounty
15-09-2016
That's what happens when you buy in from a commercial company instead of producing in house

But I see those two unbelievably irritating presenters have dropped out of the show so I might watch again when it's on C4
Funk You
15-09-2016
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Rather than jumping in 570-odd posts in, if you had read many of the earlier posts, you would understand that, by moving to C4 and losing the two presenters, you would understand that the feel and look of the show will have to change.”

At least the show hasnt been cancelled is the point I'm making way the news and people go on its like its been taken off and was a long running success when its only been on recently over the past few years and really isn't such a big deal. I love my F1, it was on BBC, I still get to watch it on C4 least its still on.
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