I disagree as far as Bake Off, Mel & Sue are concerned.


1). Either the programme was edited to fit the 60-mij slot time, or teh slot was extended.

2) You cannot include what was never produced as part of the original programme. So there would be no recaps (which would have to include the same voiceover work).



Yes there are natural breaks, but there are two issues:

1) The adverts need to be placed at points where the viewing figures are at the highest. So that would dictate that the final break is likely to be after the Showstopper (where there is no natural break).

2) The final Showstopper challenge & associated judging/discussion takes around 20 mins. I cannot imagine such a period going by without a break, especially when there is a point where tension will have built up just after the challenge time is called, and again when the judges are making up their minds after seeing all bakes.

If I wanted to maximise ad revenue (by showing that viewing figures are at their peak, and thereby enabling me to charge the highest rate) then I would certainly put in a shorter ad break at that point (in addition to one between the other natural breaks in between the Signature/Technical and Technical/Showstopper (taking the hour up to the normal 3 breaks). And of course, if the programme is longer than 60 mins, there's an even greater opportunity for slotting in that final break and maybe another one.

Not really as it would not be Bake Off (as that programme was hosted by Mel & Sue ..... (yes, discussed previously). This will be an imitation. And, as you will have gathered, I feel that the whole feel of the programme will have changed.

Right. But that doesn't change the format.


I've seen BBC programmes repeated on the former "UKTV" network that have had parts re-edited to include recaps.


There is a natural break after the Showstopper. But I also don't see a problem with putting a break in between the baking finishing and the judging starting (there's already the cuts between the bakers as a filler between the two).


Again, supposition. Let's just wait and see what happens.


If the slot is extended such that the programme itself its ~60 minutes, there wouldn't be time for a full extra break. The additional ads would be put into existing breaks.

So is Doctor Who not Doctor Who because it doesn't star William Hartnell? Is Bargain Hunt not Bargain Hunt because it isn't hosted by David Dickinson? Was The Crystal Maze latterly not The Crystal Maze because it wasn't hosted by Richard O'Brien?

And so on.


Can you tell me the lottery numbers for each week between now and the first episode of Bake Off on C4?

Again, has this been confirmed?

Or are you just continually stating guesswork as fact?

It's this bizarre notion that every programme shown on C4 has the same basic format. Which is complete rubbish.

And of course, if the show was going the other way and anyone dared suggest the BBC would make it like The Voice or one of the Lottery quizzes...

For me, the only real other examples I can think off where a format has been separated from its long-term presenters are Top Gear and Countdown.

Top Gear 2016 was enjoyable enough, it wasn't anywhere near as good as with CHM but I think after settling down and finding its feet, it has potential to become good again. Of course, the other side of this is The Grand Tour, which has all the makings of becoming something very special, but I have to wonder whether CHM unleashed are going to be as good as CHM pulling hard on the BBC leash.

Countdown for many years was Whiteley and Vorderman, but the format is sound and endures even after a few changes in presenter, some good, some not so good.

it vwould change the pacing and flow.


OK, so taht would then change the pacing the flow, and feel (for me at any rate).



Yes, just after the judging, but before the announcement of Star Baker etc. The perfect place for another ad break, killing the tension that has built up.


I do though. Maybe that's just me.


Yes, it is supposition, but I think that we are already agreed that there will be a break towards the latter part of the programme, just after Showstopper.



There would be a normal ad break "on the hour", that would then be included as part of the programme.


Look, I have a view of the current programme, a view that says that it is the sum of all of the parts, and that an integral part of the programme are the existing two presenters and two judges. Lose an of them (and we have already lost the two presenters) then it is certain that i< with many others, will be making comparisons - "oh, Mel would have done that" or "Sue would not have made that innuendo so obvious or forced". In that respect, the C4 show will always be second best (just as CE Top Gear begged comparisons with JC Top Gear, all the more so when specific phrases and opening voiceovers remained the same). Better to do something different to avoid those comparisons, at which point it's no longer the same programme anyway, in that it feels different and lacks things which were instantly recognisable as part & parcel of BO..

And if truth be told, I am not going to be alone, especially considering the accepted view that viewing figures will be way down, halved at least. Even if you discount the "I can't find the '4' button" viewers and those who won't watch C4 "because it's C4", then there will be a sizeable number who will not be watching for other reasons.

You can come round to mine when it's on mossy, we'll watch it together. We'll have beer, popcorn, hot-dogs, slush. You can all come. I'd invite Janet too but we don't live in a bungalow and she might struggle during the loo breaks.


(only joking Janet)

Dramas like DW don't rely upon one fixed character anyway. The Doctor changes, that's part of the plot. And yes, some people don't take to a particular Doctor, or a particular EP's style (and stopped watching accordingly). The other examples that you quote didn't rely too heavily on a presenter's input or style (i.e. they were not an integral part of the format).


Anyway, luckily I don't have to justify my viewing options (as you quite rightly stated). Good job really!

Well that's complete rubbish.

I chose my examples carefully. Bargain Hunt was David Dickinson's show. A lot of it was built around his personality; similarly, The Crystal Maze was Richard O'Brien's show. His asides to the camera, discussions with "Mumsie", occasional musical interludes...they all contributed to the success of the format.

But then along came Tim Wonnacott and Ed Tudor-Pole. People were rightly sceptical, but both made a success of things and the programmes continued.

So to say that Great British Bake Off on Channel 4 without Mel & Sue is just an "imitation" is utterly, utterly bizarre. Moreso when you're not even prepared to give it a go.

No, just a turn of phrase.

I do wish that people would NOT take every word so literally!!!!

But that's the forensic nature of DS sometimes. I will have to choose my words more carefully, or add a disclaimer.

I'm getting to that same point in my life of needing the loo .... good job we have a downstairs cloak (or toilet in more common terms)!

You'll have to forgive me; I have no idea what's been confirmed or otherwise about the Channel 4 version so when someone makes a literal statement you can surely see why it might be taken literally.

Thankfully most people are making it clear that they are surmising. You appear so negative about a version of a show that hasn't yet aired I assumed that is for a reason.

However when you say stuff like:-

there will be some thumping music

the fact is the programme will be shorter

then there's nothing forensic about asking you to confirm the statements of fact that you've made. These are not "turns of phrases"; these are using language to express an extremely negative viewpoint about a show by appearing to use facts. Unfortunately for you, when forensics are applied, it is making your logic appear extremely shaky.

The beauty of our language is that there are many different ways to express an opinion. Unfortunately all you did was express "facts".

I didn't mind him myself, but I don't think you can hold up The Crystal Maze as an example of a successful change. When Ed Tudor-Pole took over it didn't survive much longer.

Yes, my mistake, I've put my hands up and accepted that I need to make myself much clearer (it was not an intentional thing either).

It's rather silly to try to compare GBBO to Doctor Who, DW is a drama, a Sci Fi and unique in that the lead character can regenerate, GBBO is a baking competition, it's comparing organges and cupcakes.

Radio atimes today, describes this GBBO issue very well.

The editor says loosing GBBO from the BBC is like being mugged.

She got that right.

One thing nobody seems to have mentioned are the two Bake Off Christmas specials that were coming to BBC this year. Have they already been filmed and if not will they still happen?

My supposition is that they are part of the expiring contract (especially seeing as they tend to appear in online streaming services such a Google Play Store and Amazon Video as part of that season's episodes, and that they are obviously filmed way before the next new series of the main Bake Off).

It's a perfectly valid comparison in the context of the comment it was responding to, i.e. Bake Off without Mel & Sue isn't actually Bake Off at all. I did also include examples of game shows, which I see you decided to ignore.

As an aside, the only reason they decided The Doctor could regenerate was because William Hartnell's health was declining so they needed a way of replacing the lead actor. It may now be established that that's the nature of the character, but it certainly wasn't like that from day 1.

You do know that Joey is a made up character played by an actor who was only pretending?

Here, here. An excellent informative post as ever.

As I have mentioned somewhere, the broken trust between broadcasters and indie producers is potentially very serious for both.

Bad joke - I do live in a bungalow for that very reason. I hope there are no steps up to your front door. Do you also have room on your level driveway for me to park my Motability car because I can only walk a few yards?

Remember I don't lie.

I notice it's the younger posters (assuming Marks isn't lying about who he is, as eggchen admits he is) who can't see a problem with how the programme will change of channel or the underhand practices of Channel 4 and Love Productions.

Thank you.

I just don't understand why some posters can't see the effects this breakdown of trust will have on their future viewing, or even that there has been a breakdown of trust. Those actually involved in the industry do and have clearly said so. But it seems some posters think they know better.

For you, I'd roll out the red carpet and make vol-au-vents.

I didn't know about your condition Janet so sorry if I've offended you, I was only having a friendly dig about yer age.