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BBC Loses Great British Bakeoff
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Ash_M1
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I'm afraid I find your views just too dogmatic and odd to even understand. There is no debate, just the same spiel in every post sadly.”

There is no 'odd' about it bruv. I (along with everyone else) is right on this. What I present is how it is. You may think it fine for a private outfit to profit from public investment, most of us don't!!
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“There is no 'odd' about it bruv. I (along with everyone else) is right on this. What I present is how it is. You may think it fine for a private outfit to profit from public investment, most of us don't!! ”

Think of it this way, "bruv" - the BBC got a great deal through having GBBO at far less than the market price for so long. And now that the anomaly has been corrected, it frees up BBC funding to spend on even more high quality programmes for you to enjoy.
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by human nature:
“So based on the above, do you think the BBC was right to refuse the 400% increase in the production cost of GBBO?”

Given the 600%+ rise in ratings I'd say it was a short-sighted decision, but every broadcaster can and must make their own decisions.
Ash_M1
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Think of it this way, "bruv" - the BBC got a great deal through having GBBO at far less than the market price for so long. And now that the anomaly has been corrected, it frees up BBC funding to spend on even more high quality programmes for you to enjoy.”

No-one was interested in Bake Off which is why the Beeb took it, fulfilling it's remit. There is nothing positive about the behaviour of 4 or Love whatsoever and you shouldn't be defending them. No-one should. I was enjoying Bake Off.
ftv
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Given the 600%+ rise in ratings I'd say it was a short-sighted decision, but every broadcaster can and must make their own decisions.”

The cost of making the programme has not risen by 600%, I suspect it has barely risen at all as UK inflation is running at 1%.LP has never justified the 400% increase C4 have paid and the BBC were absolutely right to stand their ground as other independents have agreed.LP have also ensured they won't get any more commissions from the BBC.
Janet43
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Think of it this way, "bruv" - the BBC got a great deal through having GBBO at far less than the market price for so long. And now that the anomaly has been corrected, it frees up BBC funding to spend on even more high quality programmes for you to enjoy.”

It will give the BBC the money to make their own replacement baking show, which will be watched by more viewers than the Channel 4 version of the old Bake Off and cheaper than the £25million per season that Love Productions wanted. In it's present format it's one of the most successful shows on the BBC, and became so successful because of the BBC taking it when no other channel would and making it what it currently is.
Ash_M1
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Given the 600%+ rise in ratings I'd say it was a short-sighted decision, but every broadcaster can and must make their own decisions.”

You would be the first to lambaste the Beeb if they did such a thing. It's a pity you don't reserve the same animosity for Ch4 and other broadcasters.
Ash_M1
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Janet43:
“It will give the BBC the money to make their own replacement baking show, which will be watched by more viewers than the Channel 4 version of the old Bake Off and cheaper than the £25million per season that Love Productions wanted. In it's present format it's one of the most successful shows on the BBC, and became so successful because of the BBC taking it when no other channel would and making it what it currently is.”

Here here Janet. Well said. I am looking forward to the Beeb's new baking show.
lundavra
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by ftv:
“The cost of making the programme has not risen by 600%, I suspect it has barely risen at all as UK inflation is running at 1%.LP has never justified the 400% increase C4 have paid and the BBC were absolutely right to stand their ground as other independents have agreed.LP have also ensured they won't get any more commissions from the BBC.”

Lots of programmes have started off with poor viewing figures and especially on the BBC, they have been nurtured into becoming big successes. I don't think anyone else has ever said the cost should be directly proportional to the viewing figures.
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“You would be the first to lambaste the Beeb if they did such a thing. It's a pity you don't reserve the same animosity for Ch4 and other broadcasters.”

I wouldn't have said a word against it. GBBO is the most popular show on British television and it'd be lunacy to criticise the BBC for making the proper investment in the continued development and production of the show.

What you're basically saying is "It's a pity you don't hate Channel 4 and Love Productions as much as I do, for they have spurned my blessed BBC", and I think you'll find that real life is actually rather less of an orchestrated wrestling match, with 'goodies' and 'baddies' and sides to pick.
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by ftv:
“The cost of making the programme has not risen by 600%”

That's because no sane production company would spend more on making a programme than they were being paid for it. But think of what options could be opened up if the BBC had conquered their fear of factual and actually given GBBO a budget comensurate with other entertainment productions. Maybe then it would have become rather more than 'a tent in a field' flanked by presenters who were all on the verge of giving up anyway due to the heavy workload that is common for low-budget productions.

Originally Posted by ftv:
“I suspect it has barely risen at all as UK inflation is running at 1%.LP has never justified the 400% increase C4 have paid and the BBC were absolutely right to stand their ground as other independents have agreed.LP have also ensured they won't get any more commissions from the BBC.”

You seem to forget how much bad feeling came in to the relationship. I think you'll find that LP wouldn't have accepted any more commissions from the BBC if they were the last broadcaster on earth. Saying "no more commissions from the BBC" is a bit like saying "Oh yeah? Well, you're fired!" to an employee who has already quit and walked out the door.
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“No-one was interested in Bake Off which is why the Beeb took it, fulfilling it's remit.”

Where exactly in the charter is it the BBC's role to become "The Broadcaster of Last Resort"? I think you'll find you're making that up.

Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“There is nothing positive about the behaviour of 4 or Love whatsoever and you shouldn't be defending them. No-one should. I was enjoying Bake Off.”

And you'll be able to enjoy it just as much on Channel 4, won't you, "bruv" ?
Janet43
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“That's because no sane production company would spend more on making a programme than they were being paid for it. But think of what options could be opened up if the BBC had conquered their fear of factual and actually given GBBO a budget comensurate with other entertainment productions. Maybe then it would have become rather more than 'a tent in a field' flanked by presenters who were all on the verge of giving up anyway due to the heavy workload that is common for low-budget productions.


You seem to forget how much bad feeling came in to the relationship. I think you'll find that LP wouldn't have accepted any more commissions from the BBC if they were the last broadcaster on earth. Saying "no more commissions from the BBC" is a bit like saying "Oh yeah? Well, you're fired!" to an employee who has already quit and walked out the door.”

Love Production have accepted at least one more commission in the form of Creme de la Creme, even though the first series wasn't well received. They've also re-commissioned Great Pottery Throw Down and is likely to re-commission The Great British Sewing Bee, but with probably a "for life" clause in the contract..
Janet43
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“Where exactly in the charter is it the BBC's role to become "The Broadcaster of Last Resort"? I think you'll find you're making that up.


And you'll be able to enjoy it just as much on Channel 4, won't you, "bruv" ? .”

No - different presenters and judge plus adverts means we won't enjoy it "just as much".
Straker
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“The smile isn't me being disingenuous, rather laughing in amusement.”

This was your very first post in the thread while quoting ftv and nothing's changed throughout:

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Of course they will, if there is a product that the BBC want to air. People in business or in professional capacity don't behave like some of the sulky posters on this forum and hold a grudge, they recognise that it is simply business, and nothing personal.”

The tone of your posting (almost always quoting others then maligning what they've written) is not conducive to reasonable discussion especially from someone who's taken it upon themselves to dominate the thread to the extent you have with 150+ posts. You get that, right?

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't join in June purely to wind people up and see if from now on you can post without feeling the need to be dismissive, disparaging, rude, snide or otherwise less than convivial towards others.

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“They'll say anything topical on chat shows, and usually keep the tone light and humorous. But then you knew that already.”

McCall has clout at C4 and it's clear her name would be on any list of possible presenters put together by them so her comments about GBBO carry a little bit more weight than just some random celeb gobbing off.
eggchen
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“I was enjoying Bake Off.”

Were you really? Because I recall an early post of yours, and I'm sure I could find it with some digging, where you said, regarding the move to C4 "I only watch it sporadically, I won't watch it at all now"

Made me chuckle it did.
eggchen
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Straker:
“McCall has clout at C4 and it's clear her name would be on any list of possible presenters put together by them so her comments about GBBO carry a little bit more weight than just some random celeb gobbing off.”

I think it is kind of worrying when somebody thinks Davina McCall of all people carries any kind of clout.

You only have to watch that interview to see just how lighthearted and throwaway it was.
Nilrem
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by lundavra:
“Lots of programmes have started off with poor viewing figures and especially on the BBC, they have been nurtured into becoming big successes. I don't think anyone else has ever said the cost should be directly proportional to the viewing figures.”

Aye, from memory both Only Fools & Horses and Red Dwarf both did badly in their first season, it was only on repeat and the second season that they really took off and those are the two obvious off the top of my head examples I can think of.

I suspect it's one of the trade offs most content providers tend to accept when they go to the BBC with an idea, they know that the BBC is far more likely to support the program during it's start and give it a chance to get an audience than most of the commercial broadcasters, but they may not get quite as much money.
carl.waring
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nilrem:
“Aye, from memory both Only Fools & Horses and Red Dwarf both did badly in their first season, it was only on repeat and the second season that they really took off and those are the two obvious off the top of my head examples I can think of.”

Indeed. "Life On Mars" is another show that no other channel wanted.

(Side-bar and not really a propos of anything but Sky One bought US TV show "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" and Season 1 didn't do so well in the ratings to start with. Then it was shown on BBC2 who bought the terrestrial rights for the show. After that, viewing figures for S2 on Sky1 went up and it became a cult hit.)

Quote:
“I suspect it's one of the trade offs most content providers tend to accept when they go to the BBC with an idea, they know that the BBC is far more likely to support the program during it's start and give it a chance to get an audience than most of the commercial broadcasters, but they may not get quite as much money.”

Which brings us back to where LP when wrong; by forgetting this fact.

Answer me this then. Why were C4 not interested in GBBO the first time they were offered it? After all, they also have a remit to be "innovative" etc., in their programming don't they? I think you'll find that the answer is probably because, being commercial, they have to make programmes that attract advertisers. Which GBBO now will. So much for "innovative" then, eh?
Antbox
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Janet43:
“No - different presenters and judge plus adverts means we won't enjoy it "just as much".”

You're quite right, there is every chance that people may even enjoy it more.
hendero
30-09-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“There is no 'odd' about it bruv. I (along with everyone else) is right on this. What I present is how it is. You may think it fine for a private outfit to profit from public investment, most of us don't!! ”

In the history of the English language, no woman has ever referred to another person, male or female, as "bruv". And yet Ash, who went to the effort to register himself on these forums as a woman, who has been called out as a liar on that yet has never refuted it nor amended her status, still claims even a shred of credibility.
snafu65
01-10-2016
Originally Posted by hendero:
“In the history of the English language, no woman has ever referred to another person, male or female, as "bruv". And yet Ash, who went to the effort to register himself on these forums as a woman, who has been called out as a liar on that yet has never refuted it nor amended her status, still claims even a shred of credibility.”

Really? That's hilarious given the way Ash lectures everybody on here about truth and integrity.
Janet43
01-10-2016
Originally Posted by Antbox:
“You're quite right, there is every chance that people may even enjoy it more.”

Says someone who maintains Love Productions won't get any more commissions from the BBC when they already have and are currently in negotiations for renewing another.

And we would enjoy it even more on a channel with advertising in just the same way as enjoying wearing a new pair of slippers, which are stiff and haven't yet moulded themselves to your feet so pinch your toes, more than the old pair which were warm and comfortable so you could relax and enjoy sitting watching TV.
Antbox
01-10-2016
Originally Posted by Janet43:
“Says someone who maintains Love Productions won't get any more commissions from the BBC when they already have and are currently in negotiations for renewing another.”

I didn't say that - it's Ash who thinks that's the way it should rightly be. What I said was that if the BBC were going to throw their toys out of their pram and refuse to award any more commissions to LP, they may find that LP would not be minded to accept any more commissions in the first place.
Antbox
01-10-2016
Originally Posted by hendero:
“In the history of the English language, no woman has ever referred to another person, male or female, as "bruv". And yet Ash, who went to the effort to register himself on these forums as a woman, who has been called out as a liar on that yet has never refuted it nor amended her status, still claims even a shred of credibility.”

It was clear that Ash was never a genuine poster pretty much from day one - they've tripped themselves up so many times now. But accounts set up purely to astroturf popular forums with the "right" opinions won't ever admit that they're not on the level, obviously.
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