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BBC Loses Great British Bakeoff


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Old 04-10-2016, 22:47
Night Crawler
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No. Under accepted practices ALL channels (not just the BBC) keep broadcasting a programmes until it's clearly come to the end of its life, usually when ratings drop below a certain level. Then it's available for other channels to take if they think they can breathe more life into it.

At least they have done until now, when Love Productions broke the unspoken rule. They decided they didn't care that they wouldn't have had a programme without the BBC because no-one else would take it, and now that the BBC had built it up to be the success it is they'd hold the BBC to ransom and stick two finger up at them and take it elsewhere with a "Thanks for working to make it so successful, but tough - we can get more money elsewhere."
Clearly not from my observations. Apart from inhouse content, programmes can be seen starting off on the BBC or any other channel then moving to another all the time, this can be after one, two or three seasons or when the contract ends.

I can't think why any channel would want to pick up first run content that's either run its course or bombed in the ratings, but I can think of many reasons why a channel would bid vigorously for content that pulls the viewers in.

What programmes do you know that have come to the end of their life and have been picked up by another broadcaster?
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Old 04-10-2016, 23:19
pdwill
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Clearly not from my observations. Apart from inhouse content, programmes can be seen starting off on the BBC or any other channel then moving to another all the time, this can be after one, two or three seasons or when the contract ends.

I can't think why any channel would want to pick up first run content that's either run its course or bombed in the ratings, but I can think of many reasons why a channel would bid vigorously for content that pulls the viewers in.

What programmes do you know that have come to the end of their life and have been picked up by another broadcaster?
A good example - Men Behaving Badly. A ratings "flop" on ITV that was axed, but was then re-tooled by the BBC into one of the biggest sitcoms of the 90s.
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Old 05-10-2016, 00:37
lundavra
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Probably is on its way out, in which case Love Productions may just have done very well indeedy thankyou very much..

Look at The Apprentice, a prime example of the law of diminishing returns. Staying on the BBC hasn't stopped that show becoming a parody of itself, and inferior to early series.

Dragon's Den is another.
How many viewers does The Apprentice get. I don't watch it or Dragon's Den but never noticed any comments about viewing figures dropping.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:12
Janet43
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Clearly not from my observations. Apart from inhouse content, programmes can be seen starting off on the BBC or any other channel then moving to another all the time, this can be after one, two or three seasons or when the contract ends.

I can't think why any channel would want to pick up first run content that's either run its course or bombed in the ratings, but I can think of many reasons why a channel would bid vigorously for content that pulls the viewers in.

What programmes do you know that have come to the end of their life and have been picked up by another broadcaster?
You only have to do an internet search. A few are:

Dropped by the original channel and therefore available to be picked up later:

University Challenge (1962-1987 on ITV; 1994-present on BBC 2)
Candid Camera (1960-1967 on BBC 1; 1974 on ITV)
Auf Wiedersehen, Pet (1983-1986 on ITV; 2002-2004 on BBC 1)
Men Behaving Badly (1992 on ITV; 1994-1998 on BBC 1)
Doomwatch (1970-1972 on BBC 1; 1999 on Five)
Quatermass (1953-1959 on BBC 1; 1979 on ITV; 2005 on BBC Four)
Red Dwarf (1988-1999 on BBC2; 2009, 2012-present on Dave)

Dropped and immediately taken by another channel
:

The Voice UK (2012-2016 on BBC1; 2017-present on ITV)

None of those were poached when at the height of their popularity.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:38
Glawster2002
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Probably is on its way out, in which case Love Productions may just have done very well indeedy thankyou very much..

Look at The Apprentice, a prime example of the law of diminishing returns. Staying on the BBC hasn't stopped that show becoming a parody of itself, and inferior to early series.

Dragon's Den is another.
Considering Bake Off currently fills the top five of the Top 10 most watched shows of 2016, with the strong possibility of taking all 10 positions by the end of the series I would seem as though, on the BBC at any rate, that wouldn't have been the case at all.

On C4 however...
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:39
Glawster2002
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It hasn't even been produced yet, let alone you or anyone else having seen it, so the contention that it has been 'destroyed' is utterly laughable hyperbole.
People said the same before the last series of Top Gear...

In terms of its current format Bake Off has been destroyed.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:50
Paul_DNAP
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You only have to do an internet search. A few are:

Dropped by the original channel and therefore available to be picked up later:

University Challenge (1962-1987 on ITV; 1994-present on BBC 2)
Candid Camera (1960-1967 on BBC 1; 1974 on ITV)
Auf Wiedersehen, Pet (1983-1986 on ITV; 2002-2004 on BBC 1)
Men Behaving Badly (1992 on ITV; 1994-1998 on BBC 1)
Doomwatch (1970-1972 on BBC 1; 1999 on Five)
Quatermass (1953-1959 on BBC 1; 1979 on ITV; 2005 on BBC Four)
Red Dwarf (1988-1999 on BBC2; 2009, 2012-present on Dave)

Dropped and immediately taken by another channel
:

The Voice UK (2012-2016 on BBC1; 2017-present on ITV)

None of those were poached when at the height of their popularity.
Could add to that list that "Something for the Weekend" was dropped by BBC2 and within weeks a virtually identical show "Sunday Brunch" appeared on C4.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:55
Glawster2002
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Posters on here have said that the most Senior C4 Execs were in Rio for the Paralympics at the time - so it MUST have all been done and dusted well before that. One person could not sign that kind of deal without the say-so of the C4 Board - or whatever they have.
I wonder just what those C4 Execs were told by the likes of Jay Hunt, though?
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Old 05-10-2016, 09:02
derek500
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Don't Tell The Bride was 'poached' by Sky after a promotion to BBC One.

And only this week, My Kitchen Rules UK has gone to C4 after being on Sky (new production company and presenters and a two year gap).
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Old 05-10-2016, 09:16
Paul_DNAP
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People said the same before the last series of Top Gear...

In terms of its current format Bake Off has been destroyed.
I disagree, in terms of the format, it ought to be near enough identical. What may have been destroyed is whatever special alchemy that occurs within the show that draws such a large audience. Nobody can really fully explain why so many watch it, and so nobody really knows how any alterations will affect the show and the appeal to the audience. Only time will tell for sure.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:19
Night Crawler
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You only have to do an internet search. A few are:

Dropped by the original channel and therefore available to be picked up later:

University Challenge (1962-1987 on ITV; 1994-present on BBC 2)
Candid Camera (1960-1967 on BBC 1; 1974 on ITV)
Auf Wiedersehen, Pet (1983-1986 on ITV; 2002-2004 on BBC 1)
Men Behaving Badly (1992 on ITV; 1994-1998 on BBC 1)
Doomwatch (1970-1972 on BBC 1; 1999 on Five)
Quatermass (1953-1959 on BBC 1; 1979 on ITV; 2005 on BBC Four)
Red Dwarf (1988-1999 on BBC2; 2009, 2012-present on Dave)

Dropped and immediately taken by another channel
:

The Voice UK (2012-2016 on BBC1; 2017-present on ITV)

None of those were poached when at the height of their popularity.
I know I can do an internet search, but I was asking what programmes you knew off, like pdwill gave a good example of Men Behaving Badly, which fitted the criteria well as it originally had poor ratings, it was dropped by the channel and picked up by another channel, then aired immediately. All the programmes you listed in your search, apart from Men Behaving Badly, are basically revivals/reboots of popular old shows, programmes that have not aired for 10/15/20yrs.

I was referring to a programme that has been picked up by a broadcaster, it bombed in the ratings then immediately picked up by another broadcaster and aired, not picked up one or two decades later.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:00
Janet43
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I know I can do an internet search, but I was asking what programmes you knew off, like pdwill gave a good example of Men Behaving Badly, which fitted the criteria well as it originally had poor ratings, it was dropped by the channel and picked up by another channel, then aired immediately. All the programmes you listed in your search, apart from Men Behaving Badly, are basically revivals/reboots of popular old shows, programmes that have not aired for 10/15/20yrs.

I was referring to a programme that has been picked up by a broadcaster, it bombed in the ratings then immediately picked up by another broadcaster and aired, not picked up one or two decades later.
The fifth and last series of "The Voice" bombed on the BBC (they think possibly because of the judges) so they dropped it and it was immediately taken up by ITV.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:27
Glawster2002
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I disagree, in terms of the format, it ought to be near enough identical. What may have been destroyed is whatever special alchemy that occurs within the show that draws such a large audience. Nobody can really fully explain why so many watch it, and so nobody really knows how any alterations will affect the show and the appeal to the audience. Only time will tell for sure.
For the pedantics, perhaps I should have said "the show", rather than "the format" then...

Bake Off is one of those shows where "the whole" is worth far more than the sum of its parts, it is "the whole" that gives the show such great appeal for those who watch it. Remove a few of those parts and "the whole" suddenly becomes far lass attractive.

That is the problem C4 will have.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:56
Night Crawler
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The fifth and last series of "The Voice" bombed on the BBC (they think possibly because of the judges) so they dropped it and it was immediately taken up by ITV.
Ratings certainly fell and ITV picked it up, but I don't think the BBC just dropped it. Pretty sure they put bids in to keep it for two more years, they lost it because they didn't want to pay inflated prices or get into a bidding war. The BBC felt it was poached.

I think there was a lot of controversy surrounding The Voice, from the initial cost, the show being singled out in the governments consultation paper ahead of the charter renew and the purchase of Talpa by ITV earlier in the year, Talpa being one of the production companies that make the show.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:00
eggchen
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Considering Bake Off currently fills the top five of the Top 10 most watched shows of 2016, with the strong possibility of taking all 10 positions by the end of the series I would seem as though, on the BBC at any rate, that wouldn't have been the case at all.

On C4 however...
After six years on air, one wonders if it hasn't peaked in terms of popularity, is what I meant. Maybe Love felt that it had, and that it was time to offload it whilst the going was good, before the inevitable decline in both ratings and subsequent value?
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:18
Paul_DNAP
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For the pedantics, perhaps I should have said "the show", rather than "the format" then...
Maybe you should, I assumed there was a particular reason you chose to highlight the format rather than the show. Either way I think we generally agree.
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Old 05-10-2016, 13:38
Antbox
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The fifth and last series of "The Voice" bombed on the BBC (they think possibly because of the judges) so they dropped it and it was immediately taken up by ITV.
You're re-writing history there:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34756063

Mr Linsey said: "The BBC is incredibly proud of The Voice, but the fifth series which starts in January will be our last.

"We always said we wouldn't get into a bidding war or pay inflated prices to keep the show, and it's testament to how the BBC has built the programme up - and established it into a mainstay of the Saturday night schedule - that another broadcaster has poached it."
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:27
lundavra
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After six years on air, one wonders if it hasn't peaked in terms of popularity, is what I meant. Maybe Love felt that it had, and that it was time to offload it whilst the going was good, before the inevitable decline in both ratings and subsequent value?
So even though it is still the most popular show on BBC1 every week at about thirteen and half million viewers. Twice as much as highest ITV programme in the last BARB figures online and nearly four times the highest CH4 programme. The week before it was not quite twice the highest ITV programme but about six times the highest CH4 programme.

The figures seem rock solid, we have no way of knowing what it would have been on BBC1 next year but it would safe to bet that the new CH4 programme will be nowhere near thirteen and half million, I think Love CH4 will be pleased if they get two million viewers and could easily be well down on that.

Most channel controllers would do anything to have that many viewers but I suppose that is what your bosses are telling you to keep posting.
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Old 05-10-2016, 16:48
mossy2103
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That Guardian opinion article that I referenced earlier seems to suggest that the programme might have peaked creatively rather than ratings-wise.

If so, then it could be that had it stayed on the BBC, the ratings would have started to tail off for future series.

We are only too well aware that all shows reach a peak in creativity, then become either "samey", forced or preposterous. At which point viewers tend to lose interest,
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Old 05-10-2016, 18:44
Straker
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Repeat run of Mary Berry's Foolproof Cooking starts today at 7pm on BBC2. Be interesting to know if this was always scheduled or parachuted in recently.
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:20
Janet43
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Repeat run of Mary Berry's Foolproof Cooking starts today at 7pm on BBC2. Be interesting to know if this was always scheduled or parachuted in recently.
Maybe. Seems it was first broadcast in January. It's not a Love Production. Made by Shine TV Ltd .

That's an expensive lump of fillet steak!
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Old 05-10-2016, 22:16
lundavra
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That Guardian opinion article that I referenced earlier seems to suggest that the programme might have peaked creatively rather than ratings-wise.

If so, then it could be that had it stayed on the BBC, the ratings would have started to tail off for future series.

We are only too well aware that all shows reach a peak in creativity, then become either "samey", forced or preposterous. At which point viewers tend to lose interest,
'Peaked creatively' could also be interpreted as having found a perfect formula liked by performers and viewers. If they continue to like it then does it matter if an outsider thinks it has 'peaked creatively'.
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Old 05-10-2016, 22:29
derek500
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So even though it is still the most popular show on BBC1 every week at about thirteen and half million viewers. Twice as much as highest ITV programme in the last BARB figures online and nearly four times the highest CH4 programme.
I think you've just used the SD figures for ITV (6.51m).

XFactor got 8.73m in total for the Saturday showing, not including several repeats across the weekend. So about 10m.
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Old 05-10-2016, 22:32
Steve9214
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'Peaked creatively' could also be interpreted as having found a perfect formula liked by performers and viewers. If they continue to like it then does it matter if an outsider thinks it has 'peaked creatively'.
You could probably say that Strictly has "peaked creatively" with approx 10m viewers v X-Factors 6.3m,

Lots of programmes are probably described like that by critics who think they know better what the public should watch.
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Old 06-10-2016, 05:50
ftv
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Could add to that list that "Something for the Weekend" was dropped by BBC2 and within weeks a virtually identical show "Sunday Brunch" appeared on C4.
What the Papers Say was an ITV stalwart for years and when they dropped it BBC2 picked it up.
The BBC famously ''stole'' Morecambe and Wise from ATV although they eventually went back to ITV less successfully.
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