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Old 30-10-2016, 20:48
derek500
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True. But I bet Love directors have already spent it on their company dividends, Fast cars, houses,, . Yacht in Monte Carlo...
....Labour Party donations. The ultimate Champagne Socialists.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:57
Ash_M1
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Having advertising breaks will have an impact on the pacing of the show.

Many years ago there was a review in the London Evening Standard of a new one hour ITV drama which was glowing and gushing about how great it was, and what a rip-roaring storyline it had etc.

Next day, after the TV broadcast, the same critic apologised to readers who may have watched the show based on his review.
He had written his review based on watching a special showing in advance, in a screening cinema, where it had no advertising breaks.
He said the breaks ruined the tension and the pacing of the drama, and it was not the same show he had watched without breaks.

IIRC Mark Little said the same of Neighbours when it was on the BBC.
Nobody in Australia could understand the appeal of Neighbours in the UK, but when shown with no ad breaks it became a different show completely.

With the BBC Bake Off, nobody watching gets up to make a cup of tea or pop to the loo in the middle of the baking for the showstopper.
A 3 minute break in the middle of the mad scramble to finish making the final products will make it a different show, like it or not
Absolutely right on all counts. Ads ruin the flow of a show and any drama and tension that is attempted is disrupted. Pace is slowed dramatically too. Ads cheapen content. Bake Off with ads? It's a 'no' from me.
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:04
Ash_M1
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Agree on both counts.

To be honest the BBC should sue, they invested in that show. Like say a traditional husband and wife, in a divorce, and the lady was at home as a homemaker, ( this is just an example and roles could be swapped).

In my example the lady still contributed, maybe not cash, but a valued contribution. In a divorce she should get 50%. The BBC commissioned it, nurtured it, gave ideas to it, and made it the success it is. They by default have equal rights and an vested interest. In addition the BBC marketed it around the world to the benefit of Love.

Love then like a greedy husband has just gone off with a younger model and a lot of money!
I agree. In fact, as we licence fee payers invested in Bake Off (happily), Love should reimburse us all for the loss of Bake Off after years of investment.
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:06
Ash_M1
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Too true,


Lipstick from Avon.
Complete with the lady's pout!!
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:09
Aaron_2015
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I agree. In fact, as we licence fee payers invested in Bake Off (happily), Love should reimburse us all for the loss of Bake Off after years of investment.
What are you on about?

Licence fee payers didn't "invest" in anything. We had no control over that cash. Investing is a choice. The British public had no choice whatsoever.
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Old 30-10-2016, 21:14
Ash_M1
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What are you on about?

Licence fee payers didn't "invest" in anything. We had no control over that cash. Investing is a choice. The British public had no choice whatsoever.
It was our money Aaron, licence fee money, which allowed Love to make the show in the first place. Love have now run off with their show (due to their own greed only) depriving the nation of their favourite show in the process. I demand a refund from Love. They can't just mug us off like this.
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Old 30-10-2016, 22:59
carl.waring
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LOL. What is the appeal of this pap???
You'd have to ask the 14m people who watched the final. The most-watched show so far this year; again.

Does a show about baking really have to last 58 minutes without ads? How much of that is just filler? (pun not intended... filler, filling, etc.)
There was very little in the final I watched last week.

Not necessarily. You, like everyone before you, is guessing.
No. What jonbwfc posted was factually accurate and 100% correct.

Even with commercials it is entirely possible for the running time to stay the same as now.
Absolutely. All they need to do is lose around 12 mins of content.
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Old 30-10-2016, 23:12
human nature
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What are you on about?

Licence fee payers didn't "invest" in anything. We had no control over that cash. Investing is a choice. The British public had no choice whatsoever.
The BBC invested the money on behalf of the licence payers. They also helped develop and nurture the programme (when no other broadcaster wanted it) until it became the success it was.
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Old 31-10-2016, 08:45
Janet43
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Bake Off runs 59m.

Two most likely possibilities.

A shortened version (48m) with three 3m 50s breaks (the maximum Ofcom allow). That's what Sky did with Don't Tell The Bride.

A 75m slot with four 3m 50s breaks to keep the current length. This is what commercial broadcasters do with 60m imported shows that are ad free in their original broadcast.
So be pedantic over a couple of minutes!

Apart from your pedantry, what you've said is exactly what I said - either lose content or extend the running time to keep the content.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:08
ftv
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This whole fiasco raises serious issues about the role of the independent producer who uses LF money to develop a programme and then flogs it off to the highest bidder when it's a success.A 200% increase in the cost is clearly ludicrous and plain extortion, it was right the BBC did not go along with it.And it sounds as if LP did not try very hard to negotiate a deal with the BBC as they knew C4 were in the background.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:23
Mark.
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This whole fiasco raises serious issues about the role of the independent producer who uses LF money to develop a programme and then flogs it off to the highest bidder when it's a success.
The BBC have to shoulder some of the blame for that, though. When they signed the original deal with Love Productions, they didn't include any safeguard to stop the current situation.

I would imagine there's an ongoing internal inquiry to establish how a repeat can be avoided; I'd be very surprised if the conclusion wasn't to either buy new formats outright (instead of just, effectively, "renting" them for a few years), or at least take a financial sake in them which would need to be bought out for the programme(s) to move channels.

The upshot of that might be the BBC taking fewer risks on unknown formats. Indeed, it's possible GBBO might never have seen the light of day under such a policy.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:25
Charnham
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It is worth saying that there are many shows on the BBC produced by indies, which could never be sold for anything like what The Great British Bake Off has been sold for, it is a rare example of a BBC commission going insanely popular.

I have said in previous posts that whilst not fair on the BBC, its an easy argument to make that if a show can support itself commercially it does not need the licence fee (obviously AFTER a few years on the BBC), I wonder if this is a role C4 would like to fill in the future.

I do agree that the BBC should take part ownership of a format, it is our money these so called "indies"* want, so if we give them the start up capital why not take a share of the product for its whole life time.

In terms of "so called indies" Love Productions is owned by News Corp.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:30
ftv
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Wasn't the whole concept of ''independent producers'' forced on the BBC by a previous government ? Wasn't the purpose to create jobs and more diversity of programming, not for a producer to rip off the BBC and the licence payer.Clearly the rules need to be revised.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:35
lundavra
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It is worth saying that there are many shows on the BBC produced by indies, which could never be sold for anything like what The Great British Bake Off has been sold for, it is a rare example of a BBC commission going insanely popular.

I have said in previous posts that whilst not fair on the BBC, its an easy argument to make that if a show can support itself commercially it does not need the licence fee (obviously AFTER a few years on the BBC), I wonder if this is a role C4 would like to fill in the future.

I do agree that the BBC should take part ownership of a format, it is our money these so called "indies"* want, so if we give them the start up capital why not take a share of the product for its whole life time.

In terms of "so called indies" Love Productions is owned by News Corp.
Some years ago someone came up with the crackpot idea that as soon as a programme became popular then the BBC should be compelled to sell it to the highest bidder. Hard to think of a better way to lower morale at the BBC and also upset the viewers as can be seen from the outrage over losing Bake Off to Channel 4.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:40
Night Crawler
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Absolutely right on all counts. Ads ruin the flow of a show and any drama and tension that is attempted is disrupted. Pace is slowed dramatically too. Ads cheapen content. Bake Off with ads? It's a 'no' from me.
If we were talking about a drama or movie I'd agree with some of what you have said, but a baking programme, seriously.

There's a high probability they will insert the ads at the end of a challenge/before the judging or after the judging, therefore keeping the important parts of the programme intact.

In fact the ads will give those who watch with family or friends a chance to reflect on the challenge or result they have just seen instead of talking over the programme.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:42
Ash_M1
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Wasn't the whole concept of ''independent producers'' forced on the BBC by a previous government ? Wasn't the purpose to create jobs and more diversity of programming, not for a producer to rip off the BBC and the licence payer.Clearly the rules need to be revised.
Indeed it was. Given that the govt. wants the BBC to eventually outsource everything, this is going to become a growing problem. Obviously if the BBC own the rights to a particular show, then it can't be poached. I would certainly like to see the BBC retain a degree of control going forward. I don't want it turned into just a publisher-broadcaster like Channel 4.

Certainly the contracts the BBC signs with the indies - where the indies own the IP - need to be much more robust and tighter. Licence fee money shouldn't be used for private sector gain.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:43
Mark.
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Wasn't the whole concept of ''independent producers'' forced on the BBC by a previous government ? Wasn't the purpose to create jobs and more diversity of programming, not for a producer to rip off the BBC and the licence payer.Clearly the rules need to be revised.
There's two different ways of using an independent production company.

The first is where the production company has the idea and pitches it to the BBC. The BBC then say yay or nay and sign a deal for X episodes or hours over Y years. The BBC will have a lot of say in how the programme is made, but the rights are retained by the production company. This is what happened with GBBO and The Voice.

The second is where someone at the BBC comes up with an idea and, after an internal process, it gets commissioned. At this point, the contract to produce the programme is put out to tender; whichever production company wins the tender makes the programme. But the key thing is that because it's a BBC idea, they retain the rights. All the production company has is the income from the contract; if the format is a success, it can't be taken to another broadcaster unless the BBC themselves sell it.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:45
Mark.
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Certainly the contracts the BBC signs with the indies - where the indies own the IP - need to be much more robust and tighter. Licence fee money shouldn't be used for private sector gain.
That's impossible.

If such a rule were in place, the BBC literally couldn't operate because they wouldn't even be able to buy lightbulbs.

Anything the BBC buys will boost private sector profits somewhere along the line.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:46
Ash_M1
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Some years ago someone came up with the crackpot idea that as soon as a programme became popular then the BBC should be compelled to sell it to the highest bidder. Hard to think of a better way to lower morale at the BBC and also upset the viewers as can be seen from the outrage over losing Bake Off to Channel 4.
...along with the negative impact on BBC commissioning. Why would the BBC commission and invest in a show if they thought said show would be poached by an ITV or a Channel 5 the minute it became popular?
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:52
Ash_M1
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If we were talking about a drama or movie I'd agree with some of what you have said, but a baking programme, seriously.

There's a high probability they will insert the ads at the end of a challenge/before the judging or after the judging, therefore keeping the important parts of the programme intact.

In fact the ads will give those who watch with family or friends a chance to reflect on the challenge or result they have just seen instead of talking over the programme.
I would say that they (the ads) have a jarring/disruptive impact regardless of the genre.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:56
Ash_M1
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That's impossible.

If such a rule were in place, the BBC literally couldn't operate because they wouldn't even be able to buy lightbulbs.

Anything the BBC buys will boost private sector profits somewhere along the line.
What I am saying is that public-private balance has shifted towards the private. A re-alignment needs to happen whereby 'the private' works for 'the public' not the other way round.
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Old 31-10-2016, 09:57
Glawster2002
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If we were talking about a drama or movie I'd agree with some of what you have said, but a baking programme, seriously.

There's a high probability they will insert the ads at the end of a challenge/before the judging or after the judging, therefore keeping the important parts of the programme intact.
So the viewers will almost inevitably have the "coming up..." voice over in a lame attempt to add a sense of drama to the programme before the ad break and then the "recap" after the ad break because programme producers think viewers have the attention span and memory of a goldfish.

In fact the ads will give those who watch with family or friends a chance to reflect on the challenge or result they have just seen instead of talking over the programme.
Do you really believe that? I don't for a single second.

if anything those who do watch are more likely to record the programme and start watching it 10 minutes after the broadcast starts to fast forward through the ad breaks, as so many people do now.

People in general do not like ad breaks in programmes.
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Old 31-10-2016, 10:19
snafu65
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It was our money Aaron, licence fee money, which allowed Love to make the show in the first place. Love have now run off with their show (due to their own greed only) depriving the nation of their favourite show in the process. I demand a refund from Love. They can't just mug us off like this.
That's the point though, it's their show so they can do what they want with it. And they're not depriving the nation of it, it will be on another Freeview channel not a subscription service. Good luck getting your refund.
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Old 31-10-2016, 11:10
Night Crawler
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So the viewers will almost inevitably have the "coming up..." voice over in a lame attempt to add a sense of drama to the programme before the ad break and then the "recap" after the ad break because programme producers think viewers have the attention span and memory of a goldfish.
Given the controversy over the programme I would expect the producers to keep it as original as possible, that being ads after each challenge so little recap is needed.

Do you really believe that? I don't for a single second.

if anything those who do watch are more likely to record the programme and start watching it 10 minutes after the broadcast starts to fast forward through the ad breaks, as so many people do now.

People in general do not like ad breaks in programmes.
It was a lighthearted remark to the poster who has strong views against ads, hence the wink emoji.
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Old 31-10-2016, 11:31
Janet43
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The BBC have to shoulder some of the blame for that, though. When they signed the original deal with Love Productions, they didn't include any safeguard to stop the current situation.

I would imagine there's an ongoing internal inquiry to establish how a repeat can be avoided; I'd be very surprised if the conclusion wasn't to either buy new formats outright (instead of just, effectively, "renting" them for a few years), or at least take a financial sake in them which would need to be bought out for the programme(s) to move channels.

The upshot of that might be the BBC taking fewer risks on unknown formats. Indeed, it's possible GBBO might never have seen the light of day under such a policy.
It has always been an unwritten rule that a programme stays with the original broadcaster until the broadcaster decides they no longer want it. Then is can be taken up by another broadcaster. So there was no need for safeguards.

Love broke that unwritten rule by demanding an extortionate amount of money for renewing the contract. The BBC had been paying £6 million, Love wanted more. The BBC went up to £15 million, but Lve wanted £25 million - for a programme that nobody would take until the BBC took t and made it into the success it is.

There won't be an enquiry. All the other independents agree that what Love did was wrong and has changed the way these deals are made so that in future there will be a "for the life of" clause in contracts.

Under its charter the BBC has to offer 60% of its programming to independent production companies.
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