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BBC Loses Great British Bakeoff
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lundavra
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by sat-ire:
“From the person who seems to know what length Channel 4 will run the programme to...

Can you post the relevant quote?

Because the quote I've read only said certain aspects were staying the same not that it "wasn't changing a bit".”

From the one of the people who believe all Channel 4 and Love's PR?

BBC News (Big headline so can't be easily missed)
Quote:
“Paul Hollywood has vowed that the format of The Great British Bake Off will "stay exactly the same" when it moves to Channel 4.”



In the Tabloids
Guardian
Quote:
“The format of The Great British Bake Off “will stay exactly the same” following its move from the BBC to Channel 4, presenter Paul Hollywood has said.”

Express
Quote:
“Great British Bake Off format will remain the same on Channel 4, insists Paul Hollywood
GREAT BRITISH BAKE OFF judge Paul Hollywood has said that the programme will still be retaining the same format when it moves to Channel 4.”

Plenty more
sat-ire
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by lundavra:
“From the one of the people who believe all Channel 4 and Love's PR?

BBC News (Big headline so can't be easily missed)




In the Tabloids
Guardian


Express


Plenty more”

Each and every single one of those quotes him as saying the format is staying the same.

So, I really am not sure what your point is unless any of the "plenty more" mentions anything other than format
A.D.P
08-12-2016
Mary Berry reveals why she quit Great British Bake Off and says "the whole programme will be different" on Channel 4

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/reality...ifferent-show/


Mary Berry has spoken about The Great British Bake Off moving to Channel 4 again, and contrary to what Paul Hollywood has said, she thinks the show will be different in its new home.

Speaking to the Financial Times, Mary once again stated that she stayed with the BBC out of loyalty.

"The BBC backed it from the beginning," she said "I feel it was very much a BBC show. And it's quite nice not to have any adverts.

"I felt my loyalty was to the BBC, and that's how Mel and Sue felt.

"A move is different – the whole programme will be different."
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“If you wish to continue to pick apart every single word, every single nuance, every single phrase (and the read in your own interpretation, right or wrong), that's up to you. ”

No, your inclusion of "more" is actually quite important and not in the slightest bit picky.

Nobody would ever suggest that anyone involved in a programme would know much more than the Executive Producer ("or similar"). Which is why nobody did. Yet you seem keen on suggesting that they did for some bizarre reason.

Quote:
“Why would he be regularly consulted?”

Oh I don't know. The fact he's a major part of the show and integral to its on-screen delivery might have something to do with it.
mossy2103
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“No, your inclusion of "more" is actually quite important and not in the slightest bit picky.”

I don't see it that way (and I wrote it!).

You're the one reading something into this when there is nothing to "read" (yeah, another "turn of phrase" so enjoy pulling that one apart).
mossy2103
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“Oh I don't know. The fact he's a major part of the show and integral to its on-screen delivery might have something to do with it.”

But if nothing is changing regarding the format, then why would he need to be consulted at all? For him it would be "business as usual" - he judges within a format that is not changing. His judging slots are not likely to change, the interaction with the bakers won't.

If either changes then by definition the show will change (or at the very least, the look or feel of the show will change).

And it's the same production company, with what would be likely to be the same production team. For them, it's only the commissioning broadcaster that has changed, all else is "business as usual".

So again I ask - why would he be consulted on a programme where he is simply employed as a judge and where the format will not change?
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“I don't see it that way (and I wrote it!).”

Obviously you wouldn't see it that way because otherwise you wouldn't have written it (so quite why you think the bit in brackets supports your, ahem, "argument" is anyone's guess).

Quote:
“You're the one reading something into this when there is nothing to "read" (yeah, another "turn of phrase" so enjoy pulling that one apart).”

Blimey, someone is a tad oversensitive.

Look, it was suggested that Paul Hollywood wouldn't know much about the production of GBBO on Channel 4. You replied to that post suggesting he would if he had been made the Executive Producer "or similar". When challenged, you decided to (for reasons only you know) to introduce the word "more" - the Executive Producers ("or similar") will know much more about it.

It's a classic straw man. Only with that word "more" does your attempted point have any basis. But at no point was it ever suggested that Paul Hollywood does know "more" than the Executive Producers.

Until you grasp that actually yes, including one tiny word does have significance and does alter the meaning of the sentence then it's completely and utterly pointless trying to engage with you on this topic. All that will likely happen is that you'll introduce further "weasel words" to change the meaning of sentences, then accuse people of being picky when they pull you up on it.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“But if nothing is changing regarding the format, then why would he need to be consulted at all? For him it would be "business as usual" - he judges within a format that is not changing. His judging slots are not likely to change, the interaction with the bakers won't.

If either changes then by definition the show will change (or at the very least, the look or feel of the show will change).

And it's the same production company, with what would be likely to be the same production team. For them, it's only the commissioning broadcaster that has changed, all else is "business as usual".

So again I ask - why would he be consulted on a programme where he is simply employed as a judge and where the format will not change?”

Seriously?

The absurdity is through the floor now.
mossy2103
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“Seriously?”

Yes, seriously.

And it looks like you have no answer to provide to any of my points.

Which says much.



Quote:
“The absurdity is through the floor now.”

So what is so absurd in your view?
derek500
08-12-2016
If the BBC edit a one hour baking segment down to six minutes and C4 down to 4m, is it a format change?

Did This is Your Life or University Challenge have format changes when they moved to the BBC with longer running times?
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Yes, seriously.

And it looks like you have no answer to provide to any of my points.

Which says much.”

No, I just don't see the point in responding to something so absurd.

Regardless of the format, Paul Hollywood is undoubtedly being consulted and/or informed of goings-on.

But obviously you'll disagree unless I can provide a detailed file of evidence showing why I reached that conclusion, along with multiple eyewitness accounts of him being in several meetings with top-level production staff.
Ash_M1
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38237763

He must be lying. According to people on here, everything about the programme is changing...”

The fact that Ch4 carries blinkin' ads means the format automatically changes. How can Paul imply otherwise? Silly man.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“The fact that Ch4 carries blinkin' ads means the format automatically changes. How can Paul imply otherwise? Silly man.”

The format of a programme is independent of the way it is shown.
Ash_M1
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“The format of a programme is independent of the way it is shown.”

With respect, how it appears on the telly box is what matters.

Reasons why Bake Off on 4 won't be the same include:
1. Lengthy and intrusive ad-breaks. The pace of the show will be affected in a negative way. The fact 4 carries ads means the format will have to change, in that, mini cliff-hangers will come at the end of each segment. Viewers of Bake Off on 4 will also have to put up with the 'Before The Break' re-caps too. Aesthetically, the move to 4 will also be jarring for viewers as the ads will ruin the atmosphere.

2. Product Placement. As 4 is a commercial operator, product placement will also become a feature changing the format from an editorial perspective still further.

3. The fact that Mel, Sue and Mary won't be on the show. Again, a major change to the format.

Paul obviously has to stay 'on message' but he (and others) are wrong to say it will be 'business as usual' when Bake Off moves to 4.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“With respect, how it appears on the telly box is what matters.”

How it appears on the "telly box" (really?) has nothing to do with the format.

Quote:
“Reasons why Bake Off on 4 won't be the same include:
1. Lengthy and intrusive ad-breaks. The pace of the show will be affected in a negative way. The fact 4 carries ads means the format will have to change, in that, mini cliff-hangers will come at the end of each segment. Viewers of Bake Off on 4 will also have to put up with the 'Before The Break' re-caps too. Aesthetically, the move to 4 will also be jarring for viewers as the ads will ruin the atmosphere.”

Adverts do not change the format.

Quote:
“2. Product Placement. As 4 is a commercial operator, product placement will also become a feature changing the format from an editorial perspective still further.”

Product placement does not change the format.

Quote:
“3. The fact that Mel, Sue and Mary won't be on the show. Again, a major change to the format.”

Mel, Sue and Mary not being on the show does not change the format.

Quote:
“Paul obviously has to stay 'on message' but he (and others) are wrong to say it will be 'business as usual' when Bake Off moves to 4.”

He didn't say it was "business as usual". He said the format would not be changing. Which is entirely possible.
A.D.P
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“How it appears on the "telly box" (really?) has nothing to do with the format.
Adverts do not change the format.
Product placement does not change the format.
Mel, Sue and Mary not being on the show does not change the format.

He didn't say it was "business as usual". He said the format would not be changing. Which is entirely possible.”

Sorry you are way way wrong.

Product placement will alter the whole show, flour sponsored by Sainsbury's, and fridges by Smeg, and Ovens by Hotpoint. It will ruin it.

Michael Grade who knows a lot about TV a controller at BBC and 4, said C4 purchased a car with only one wheel on it. Mel, Sue, Mary leaving changes it by at least 75-%.
Adverts will extend the show to 75 minutes a change, or the programme will be edited more.

Facts.....
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“Sorry you are way way wrong.

Product placement will alter the whole show, flour sponsored by Sainsbury's, and fridges by Smeg, and Ovens by Hotpoint. It will ruin it.

Michael Grade who knows a lot about TV a controller at BBC and 4, said C4 purchased a car with only one wheel on it. Mel, Sue, Mary leaving changes it by at least 75-%.
Adverts will extend the show to 75 minutes a change, or the programme will be edited more.

Facts.....”

But none of that changes the format.

Christ, it's like drawing teeth.
A.D.P
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“But none of that changes the format.

Christ, it's like drawing teeth.”

Yes like drawing teeth, you do not get it, even when you see facts.

Changing the " key talent" 3/4 of them changes the format, no Mary changes the format, no Mel and Sue changes the format, ( unless you get two people to pretend to be Mel and Sue and get Mel and Sue to write the script.

Product placement changes the format. Quite considerably.

I can't see why you ignore those facts. Michael Grade feels the format will be changed.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“Yes like drawing teeth, you do not get it, even when you see facts.

Changing the " key talent" 3/4 of them changes the format, no Mary changes the format, no Mel and Sue changes the format, ( unless you get two people to pretend to be Mel and Sue and get Mel and Sue to write the script.

Product placement changes the format. Quite considerably.
”

You obviously don't know what a format is. If you did, you'd understand that none of those things you mention change it.
A.D.P
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“You obviously don't know what a format is. If you did, you'd understand that none of those things you mention change it.”

I do, you do not!
Ash_M1
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“How it appears on the "telly box" (really?) has nothing to do with the format.



Adverts do not change the format.



Product placement does not change the format.



Mel, Sue and Mary not being on the show does not change the format.



He didn't say it was "business as usual". He said the format would not be changing. Which is entirely possible.”

You've entered into the sphere of hairsplitting. You are attempting to suggest that black is in fact white.

Ads do change the format for the reasons I've stated.
Product placement does change the format on editorial grounds.
Mel, Sue and Mary not being on the show does change the format.

The whole show will change once on 4 which is why millions won't tune in. BBC viewers enjoyed the BBC version immensely.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“I do, you do not!”

Is it panto season already?

What you're talking about is how the programme is broadcast. The format of a programme is the general structure and characteristic elements.

The former is changing; the latter, we're told, isn't.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“You've entered into the sphere of hairsplitting. You are attempting to suggest that black is in fact white.

Ads do change the format for the reasons I've stated.
Product placement does change the format on editorial grounds.
Mel, Sue and Mary not being on the show does change the format.

The whole show will change once on 4 which is why millions won't tune in. BBC viewers enjoyed the BBC version immensely.”

You also don't know what a format is. So it's pointless trying to discuss this with you.
Ash_M1
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“Is it panto season already?

What you're talking about is how the programme is broadcast. The format of a programme is the general structure and characteristic elements.

The former is changing; the latter, we're told, isn't.”

How it is broadcast will definitely change for the worse. Given that it will be on an ad-channel, have product placement, re-caps and no Mel, Sue and Mary, the general structure and the characteristics of the Beeb's version will be lost too. The only thing that wont change is the name. Otherwise, it is an entirely different show.
Mark.
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“How it is broadcast will definitely change for the worse. Given that it will be on an ad-channel, have product placement, re-caps and no Mel, Sue and Mary, the general structure and the characteristics of the Beeb's version will be lost too. The only thing that wont change is the name. Otherwise, it is an entirely different show.”

I'm glad you now accept it's not the format that's changing.
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