|
||||||||
Lucifer season 2 - Amazon prime - 20th Sept |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#26 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,299
|
Great first episode. Didn't quite have the flow of the previous season, what with them needing to set up so much from the past few days, but genuinely freaking LOVE Lucifer!
So glad it's back!
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#27 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,601
|
Quote:
The end song made me laugh, i recognised the first few keys of it as it's one of my favourites but thought nothing of it until the last second. Very nice little nod
|
|
|
|
|
|
#28 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,532
|
Still as good as ever - damn good show all round. Almost worth a Prime sub on its own.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#29 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
Quote:
The main character is called Lucifer and he runs a club. That is pretty much the only things they've taken from the comics. They couldn't be more different in style and story.
The TV show version is different yes but the original comic Lucifer in the Sandman incarnation and the first 3 introduction comics, rather than the present re-boot, was far more in keeping with the sarcastic English gent aesthetic the show is presenting. The police procedural element of it isn't relevant as clearly that's not in the comics and the TV show isn't a reproduction of the story in the comics as they wouldn't be able to show it without an 18 certificate. Quote:
Yeah once I recognized it I burst out laughing as I already knew who was about to turn up.
![]()
|
|
|
|
|
#30 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
|
A bit annoyed that they reset things so easily e,g, Dan back on the force.
But inherently there's far more to like than dislike in this show. Tom is brilliant in this and the supporting cast are great. A must watch. |
|
|
|
|
|
#31 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Well I think that settles it; Mom's up to no good. Odd that she needs to inhabit a human host though (why?) - I hope that gets explained, in addition to why Angels don't. Speaking of Angels, what's going on with Amenadiel? Are his wings failing him as a punishment from God, or because he sinned (when sleeping with Maze) or what?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#32 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,299
|
Quote:
Well I think that settles it; Mom's up to no good. Odd that she needs to inhabit a human host though (why?) - I hope that gets explained, in addition to why Angels don't. Speaking of Angels, what's going on with Amenadiel? Are his wings failing him as a punishment from God, or because he sinned (when sleeping with Maze) or what?
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#33 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
It's probably because he dipped his altar candle in the Satan pit...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#34 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
So good, another absolutely brilliant episode with the great humour it's becoming known for, great use of music and plenty of plot to keep the story moving forward.
So, just what is mum's angle, is she looking to overthrow God and take control of Heaven? I'm pretty convinced now that she's their interpretation of Lilith, God's first wife who he cast out and who is now identified as the mother of demons as well as various other mythological creatures now in other story cannon like White Wolf's Vampire, the Masquerade. I think Amanediel is losing his wings because he's losing his faith and his belief that the Will of God is the only way - I think that's what the conversation with Linda about choice was all about. It's what the war in Heaven was all about when Lucifer rebelled (in the comics) and Amenadiel was sent to head up the Heavenly Host to return him. Now he's feeling more brotherly love for Lucifer and he's questioning whether he was right to rebel. It's in contrast to Lucifer purposely removing his wings and them staying pure and powerful. Their mother escaping is now just more conflict to muddy the waters! Also loved how she referred to children plural, acknowledging she's the mother of the Lilin too (which is what Maze is). |
|
|
|
|
#35 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
So, just what is mum's angle, is she looking to overthrow God and take control of Heaven? I'm pretty convinced now that she's their interpretation of Lilith, God's first wife who he cast out and who is now identified as the mother of demons as well as various other mythological creatures now in other story cannon like White Wolf's Vampire, the Masquerade.
I also wonder whether the reason for her damnation is because she had an affair (of sorts). If Mom and God have Angel offspring, then presumably there's another entity out there that that allows Mom to produce demonic spawn? Maybe that's what the war in heaven was all about? Quote:
I think Amanediel is losing his wings because he's losing his faith and his belief that the Will of God is the only way - I think that's what the conversation with Linda about choice was all about. It's what the war in Heaven was all about when Lucifer rebelled (in the comics) and Amenadiel was sent to head up the Heavenly Host to return him. Now he's feeling more brotherly love for Lucifer and he's questioning whether he was right to rebel. It's in contrast to Lucifer purposely removing his wings and them staying pure and powerful.
Quote:
Their mother escaping is now just more conflict to muddy the waters! Also loved how she referred to children plural, acknowledging she's the mother of the Lilin too (which is what Maze is).
|
|
|
|
|
|
#36 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
Quote:
She has vengeance on her mind, that's for sure, though she's seemingly limited in her current form. I hope we get a better explanation of why she needs a host.
But I think it's more likely they're going to follow "traditional" Biblical mythology and have her chucked out because she refused to be subservient to God and wouldn't return to the Garden of Eden to live with Adam. Which is when God created Eve instead and she was sooooo much better! ![]() She's also often referred to interchangeably as Lamia, and there's lots of interesting classical mythology for her too. Quote:
Which begs the question, will Maze ultimately end up assisting Mom over Lucy?
|
|
|
|
|
#37 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
|
Hmm, the soap opera shenanigans is started to wear on me now and that's two episodes that have finished on Moms sly smile.
Villain of the week sort of falls flat when famous face appears so you know despite all diversions who it's going to be. Can't say this season is doing it for me. |
|
|
|
|
|
#38 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 53,623
|
I loved the exchange ..
"What am I going to do with you?" "Oh I could think of a few things but i'd have to stretch first"
|
|
|
|
|
#39 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
So Mom's stuck in a human body, but isn't a mere human? Enhanced strength at least, though can still be harmed (at least by her children)? Quote:
But I think it's more likely they're going to follow "traditional" Biblical mythology and have her chucked out because she refused to be subservient to God and wouldn't return to the Garden of Eden to live with Adam. Which is when God created Eve instead and she was sooooo much better
|
|
|
|
|
|
#40 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,863
|
Quote:
So Mom's stuck in a human body, but isn't a mere human? Enhanced strength at least, though can still be harmed (at least by her children)?
I wasn't aware Mom was referenced in traditional biblical lore...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#41 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,782
|
Quote:
There is no "mom" in the Bible. Don't try to reconcile any of the stuff you see in the show with what's in the Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,299
|
Well I'm still loving it!
It's still got it - same show - just trying new things! |
|
|
|
|
|
#43 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
|
Last season there was a whole load of dialogue directly lifted from the Sandman, like the "They make out I sit on their shoulder, whispering in their ear, making them do things..." speech from Lucifer... I hope there is going to be some more of the background and characters from Sandman too... Death, Desire, Destruction, Destiny, Delirium and Despair could all appear in one way or another as well as Dream, Eve and Lilith.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 10,537
|
Quote:
I'm pretty convinced now that she's their interpretation of Lilith, God's first wife who he cast out and who is now identified as the mother of demons as well as various other mythological creatures now in other story cannon like White Wolf's Vampire, the Masquerade.
Lilith is generally Adam's first wife. God creates Adam and Lilith simultaneously, tells Lilith that Adam's in charge just because, she says no, God throws her out, creates Eve from Adam's rib, says Adam's in charge because he was there first and gave up a rib for her, Eve says ok... I'm not saying she won't get called Lilith, because it's the standard go to sexy evil female demon name, but if so Lilith be God's wife will be a new idea. (In fact if I remember my White Wolf lore correctly, it's too late to go digging in the loft to confirm, Lilith had an affair with Lucifer at some point) |
|
|
|
|
|
#45 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 10,537
|
Oh ok, apparently there is talk of God having a wife...but it's a fertility Goddess called Asherah.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,059
|
I'd get involved but all my biblical know how comes straight outta the School of Supernatural. So naturally I'm just waiting on Gods Sister to rock up in LA and put Maze in her place. Then get a throw down with Lucifer and Castiel...
On topic though, I'm quite enjoying this. Got off off to a much better start than season 1 and really it seems to have found its feet now. So glad as I can't get enough of Tom as Luci. If Mark can't do it then I'll happily go with Tom as my Devil. |
|
|
|
|
#47 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
Quote:
Villain of the week sort of falls flat when famous face appears so you know despite all diversions who it's going to be.
ETA: Ahh I don't watch Chuck so that's why. I had spotted Robin GIvens though! Quote:
Last season there was a whole load of dialogue directly lifted from the Sandman, like the "They make out I sit on their shoulder, whispering in their ear, making them do things..." speech from Lucifer... I hope there is going to be some more of the background and characters from Sandman too... Death, Desire, Destruction, Destiny, Delirium and Despair could all appear in one way or another as well as Dream, Eve and Lilith.
Quote:
I wasn't aware Mom was referenced in traditional biblical lore...
Quote:
I wasn't. I was trying to understand Cadiva's comment that "traditional" Biblical mythology had her thrown out because she wouldn't become Gods subject.
Quote:
Lilith has never, to my knowledge, been presented as God's first wife
... And, on the episode itself. I thought it was another exceptionally good one, moving much closer to the origins of the character and why he ended up in charge of Hell with the various different conversations. They're now, in my opinion, very cleverly having the crimes mirror much closer with Luci's own existential crisis about why God chose to send him to Hell, why he felt the need to challenge God's Will, why he felt betrayed, why he likes to punish etc. Also liking that Ella, the new CSI, is popping up with little insights which Lucifer picks up on and sets him off down a different introspective path - the comment about the burning bush was amusing. The darker sense of humour of the original comic source is now coming more into the fore as well and while it's still ridiculously funny at times, some of the humour is bringing an edge of darkness along. Tom Ellis continues to sell this show and this character perfectly. But I was also really impressed with the short bit of time DB had with Amanedial in the episode in both his conversation with Maze and with Charlotte. She's brill as well. I like that they've chosen an actress who could, pretty convincingly, pass for a stunning women who looked a lot younger than her natural age. There are subtle hints in the make up they use where she looks "older" and could convincingly be Luci's mum with a lot of cosmetic surgery ![]() The crime this week was also clever in that it poked a really big torch into the horrors of the internet which often go ignored in "entertainment", and the potential irresponsibility of the big global companies who don't do enough to moderate content. Oh and Dan and Chloe! This better not mean they're setting up her and Lucifer because it just won't work. Hopefully it's going to be more of Chloe realising what she's lost and her and Dan working it out and getting back together eventually. |
|
|
|
|
#48 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,938
|
Too late to edit. Wanted to say as well that I think Trisha Helfer is killing it as "Charlotte/Mum" and I love the idea of her having to go back into Charlotte's real life with the husband and the kids for punishment. A really good way of emphasising how Lucifer felt abandoned and Amanedial took her to Hell on their Dad's orders without question - now she's going to have two human kids to parent! Amusingly someone on AV Club called her Mamalotte so I'm gonna use that going forward ![]() And as a PS: We're going
Spoiler
|
|
|
|
|
#49 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,766
|
Well I thought girls night was sparkling good fun and this ep was just generally a riot all round.
And I'm with Mom on all this gluten talk !!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
#50 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 10,537
|
Quote:
She isn't Mum in the Bible, in the Bible Lilith is Adam's first wife.
There is no Adam's first wife "in the Bible" or indeed in any bible. In the Bible there is Adam and Eve and that's it. The single mention of Lilith is as something bad that lives outside Eden. And that's only in some editions of the Bible (such as the version the Gideons leave in motel drawers all over America I believe). In other editions (including that commonly used by the Church of England) the name Lilith is replaced by "night monster" or "screech owl" so the word Lilith is completely absent. The "Adams first wife thrown out for refusing to play second fiddle" is a story from Jewish folklore, a very old story from Jewish folklore, but it's a story that never made it into the Bible. When the Bible's first editor gathered together all the books and psalms and prayers and letters and put all the bits they liked together to make one book Lilith is just one of the stories that got rejected. They probably weren't too keen on the whole "saying no to God" vibe or indeed the "men and women are equal" one. |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:30.




