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The Fall - Series 3 on BBC 2.


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Old 30-09-2016, 11:58
Abomination
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This is the moral, ethic and financial cost it takes to bring an injured murdering rapist to justice. It's not for the faint-hearted.
You summed it up brilliantly. For me The Fall has never been about a detective solving crimes... those kinds of shows, whilst often good, are ten a penny. What this show has done is explore just the one case, and the toll one case can take on people, and the costs involved - as you say financially, morally and ethically.

And for me that works. And it works because the show never got gratuitous, or repetitive. I remember a scene early on in Series 2 where Spector is on a train heading back to Belfast and he starts talking to a female passenger. The show frames her as the next inevitable victim, but then the series curveballs - true to real life - and we never actually see him murder again. Series 1 - crime. Series 2 - capture. Series 3 - conviction. I don't feel it's been dragged out because each series has served a different purpose, taken on a slightly different form and explored the characters slowly so as to see every last impact a case like this can have - from the detective who might have his career cut short, to the family of the killer, to the families of the victims, to the people surrounding Stella's life. It finds time for all of them. I don't see it as implausible or padded, I see it as a rather thorough and interesting insight into a single case and the different stages of it. The events of the show are not episodic, they depict the genuine toll something like this actually takes... from the sometimes relentlessly slow development to the emotional impact it has on so many people. Real life doesn't just reach a resolution because a certain amount of time has passed, and The Fall plays up to that brilliantly.

No way. Belfast makes the show unique and there are lots of good police characters aswell, especially Merlin.
I could quite happily see Merlin and Scully teaming up in another series, and solving another crime.

But in all seriousness, I would happily see the show continue, maybe even with a different title to differentiate it from the Spector storyline. Have Gillian Anderson and Colin Morgan front it and explore something new next time around (not that I have a problem with the show at all right now). I think Stella is an interesting enough character to warrant it and as much as I try to avoid too much gender politics it might be a bit refreshing to have an older female lead/younger male lead dynamic... it's something less often done but something I think The Fall does well, and could do even better.

I've always wondered if Stella's obsession with him perhaps contained just the tiniest bat-squeak of lust, possibly unrealised even by her.
I like the blurred lines of the emotions in play with Stella. Personally I don't think she quite lusts after Spector but I think she, like him, gets a sense of satisfaction from power play.

The way Stella talks about Rose's condition is just one example of how she seems to have insight into what it's like for a woman to be taken advantage of by a controlling man. She understands the fine line between submitting and consenting very well, and confidently speaks as if to know what a woman needs in that kind of situation.

I think Stella likes to think she's overcome the controlling men in her past, whoever they were. She maybe even enjoys the power play which society would tell you is reserved for only men. She proudly sleeps with men much younger than her, and calls out other men who would dare to criticise her for it. She's quite probably bisexual from what we saw in Series 2, and even where other women are concerned she adamantly shows she will hold her ground. When it comes to Spector she wears the red nail polish knowing it will evoke a reaction, but in a circumstance where he has no control over her. Maybe she enjoys the power play, maybe she does these things as a reassurance of her ability to maintain control. I don't much think she lusts after Spector, but she enjoys being in a position where she knows she has him figured out and can toy with him mentally.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:08
helen_w
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i thought the episode was fascinating.

things like the shot of the room where they initially treated spector - with everything in disarray, blood pools etc - were kind-of heartbreaking in a strange way.

the scene where the daughter sneaked a look at the article about her dad was really well done. in a split-second, her childhood innocence vanished.

i thought stella, on a subconscious level, held the old woman's hand because she couldn't hold spector's.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:41
the_lostprophet
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I don't much think she lusts after Spector, but she enjoys being in a position where she knows she has him figured out and can toy with him mentally.
Interesting how we all interpret things so differently. For me there IS a psychosexual connection there but not one she's consciously aware of - phenomena like that are fairly common as the mind is so weird.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:43
Charnham
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my read on the old woman, is that Stella had no one to comfort and some desire to do so, Rose had her husband, we even saw them make a point of saying Pauls family should be made aware, leaving her with nothing and no one, the old lady being a distraction from that.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:57
Nihonga
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I agree.

There has always been a certain amount of moral ambiguity about the treatment of the Spector character throughout the three series. The dichotomy between the genuinely caring family man and cold-blooded serial rapist and killer is disturbing. And it wasn't helped by the casting of a very attractive actor, unlike the slightly freaky or thuggish types who generally play the villain. I've always wondered if Stella's obsession with him perhaps contained just the tiniest bat-squeak of lust, possibly unrealised even by her.
Indeed - they have a weird psychosexual fascination with each other probably not recognised consciously. They play cat and mouse: Stella putting on the particular shade of red nail varnish for the presser that she knew Spector would be watching in the previous series, Spector with the "Oh Stella, how well I know you now" line after he'd read her diary etc.

On a surface level she probably really believes her story she told Anderson about why she was more concerned with helping Spector in the woods rather than him.
You summed it up brilliantly. For me The Fall has never been about a detective solving crimes... those kinds of shows, whilst often good, are ten a penny. What this show has done is explore just the one case, and the toll one case can take on people, and the costs involved - as you say financially, morally and ethically.

And for me that works. And it works because the show never got gratuitous, or repetitive. I remember a scene early on in Series 2 where Spector is on a train heading back to Belfast and he starts talking to a female passenger. The show frames her as the next inevitable victim, but then the series curveballs - true to real life - and we never actually see him murder again. Series 1 - crime. Series 2 - capture. Series 3 - conviction. I don't feel it's been dragged out because each series has served a different purpose, taken on a slightly different form and explored the characters slowly so as to see every last impact a case like this can have - from the detective who might have his career cut short, to the family of the killer, to the families of the victims, to the people surrounding Stella's life. It finds time for all of them. I don't see it as implausible or padded, I see it as a rather thorough and interesting insight into a single case and the different stages of it. The events of the show are not episodic, they depict the genuine toll something like this actually takes... from the sometimes relentlessly slow development to the emotional impact it has on so many people. Real life doesn't just reach a resolution because a certain amount of time has passed, and The Fall plays up to that brilliantly.


I like the blurred lines of the emotions in play with Stella
. Personally I don't think she quite lusts after Spector but I think she, like him, gets a sense of satisfaction from power play.

The way Stella talks about Rose's condition is just one example of how she seems to have insight into what it's like for a woman to be taken advantage of by a controlling man. She understands the fine line between submitting and consenting very well, and confidently speaks as if to know what a woman needs in that kind of situation.

I think Stella likes to think she's overcome the controlling men in her past, whoever they were. She maybe even enjoys the power play which society would tell you is reserved for only men. She proudly sleeps with men much younger than her, and calls out other men who would dare to criticise her for it. She's quite probably bisexual from what we saw in Series 2, and even where other women are concerned she adamantly shows she will hold her ground. When it comes to Spector she wears the red nail polish knowing it will evoke a reaction, but in a circumstance where he has no control over her. Maybe she enjoys the power play, maybe she does these things as a reassurance of her ability to maintain control. I don't much think she lusts after Spector, but she enjoys being in a position where she knows she has him figured out and can toy with him mentally.
All of these!!

It's the sick twisted psychology of a crime, its effects and consequences being played out and drawn out intricately - ranging from a murdering married rapist with children who formally worked as a counsellor, the brilliant crime detective who has serious issues with men that stems from her childhood to all the characters are affected: the wife who is left thinking if she ever knew her husband, sleeping with him and bearing his children; Spector's young daughter who deeply loves her father (much more than her own mother it would seem at times) and now has that idealism brutally shattered; the medical staff, and on and on.

Personally as a viewer, if I'm left confused and baffled by the drawn out medical scenes and its terminology, it's because I've experienced a disneyfied sanitised version of that world. It's been touched upon in other dramas, of course, but perhaps not as starkly and graphically. And even then I still think I've been protected from the worst; medical reality-tv being the one that comes to mind. I would think it would take much longer than 30 minutes for all that to unfold in real life and in realtime.

And then take as an example Tom Stagg and his misunderstanding of how his wife's reaction and response to Spector's threats; it's the same misunderstanding that continues to exist among rape crimes. And the misconceived and presumptious ideas floating around in people's minds don't end there. Of course, there will be some viewers who will say that Stella Gibson's character is hardly realistic. Well, we have women who write romantic declarations to the worst offenders in prisons, some of whom go on to marry them, and people wonder what on earth drives these women to do such things. And there are the psychological affects police officers dealing with child abuse and paedophilia have to face and overcome. I could be mistaken but I believe that psycologists are at hand to help them through it and that no one officer investigates such crimes for longer than a set period of time or else it just psychologically messes you up. Even now we are starting hear stories now and again of the psychological affects paramedics face on the frontline. It's a sick sad world we live in unfortunately.
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Old 30-09-2016, 13:10
Nihonga
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Interesting how we all interpret things so differently. For me there IS a psychosexual connection there but not one she's consciously aware of - phenomena like that are fairly common as the mind is so weird.
I think it is possible she occupies both spectrums in a fantastically weird way. That'e where the psychology of the drama comes into play. Consciously, she thinks she is in a position where she believes she can control him as she does with all the other men in her life. But I believe she consciously knows Spector is a dangerous man she can't play with. He knows stuff about her that no other man knows (i.e. her diary content; her wardrobe). And yet unconsciously, there is a psychosexual connection is going on between them that is bringing these conscious acts to the fore. Stella may well be bisexual, but I'm not sure romantic emotional attraction comes into it. The more important aspect of the sexual act her - the dinner date, the conversation, the sex act itself - is the power and its attraction it holds for her (i.e. men falling at her feet; women being drawn to her). A bit like in a rather sick twist way a rapist behaves and gets off on their own sick twistedness.
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Old 30-09-2016, 15:13
SepangBlue
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Mrs Fuzzy used to work as a theatre nurse.

It is rare that she says TV comes close to what surgery is like (procedures, dialogue, scenes etc.) but it was almost spot on by all accounts from her corner of the sofa.
As someone who spent a great deal of their final 25 years at work (as a surgical sales and marketing manager) in operating theatres and A&E departments, I can echo Mrs Fuzzy's opinion about the accuracy and realism of the A&E and theatre scenes.

I expect a lot of people just heard a load of medical/surgical babble, but I was intrigued to follow everything that was said and done and, unusually for this sort of production, I wasn't able to turn to my wife and say 'It wouldn't happen like that' ... because actually it would!

My only beef was with the rather stilted quasi-dramatic dialogue at the theatre table side. In any hospital today all members of the various surgical teams know each other pretty well and mostly by their first names. This brings a more relaxed attitude to critical operating situations and loud calls for 'scalpel', 'large swabs .. don't unfold them', etc., would be fairly unusual, although repeated requests to the anaesthetist for critical signs updates in a similar situation would be the norm.

I'm really looking forward to the remaining five episodes of this intriguing series. Gillian Anderson is utterly superb s always and the principal supports are all very well rounded characters.
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Old 30-09-2016, 17:06
harrypalmer
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My sentiments exactly.

If the car chase / door kicking in folks just commented once to the effect that they found it dull and it isn't for them, and then went off to other threads, that would be fair enough. But quite a few of them don't, they keep coming back to tell the rest of us repeatedly how sh*te it is!

Never seen hospital scenes like that before, very well done I thought. MInd you it did occur to me that in real life all those staff wouldn't be available, most of them would be dealing with drunks and druggies!
I have no special requirements for car chases or doors being kicked in to enjoy a drama. It does need to be believable and not (as Captain Mainwaring would say) 'going off into the realms of fantasy'. People don't need to be running around to keep me awake, but some people were behaving with such slowness that if they were going any slower they'd be going in reverse.
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Old 30-09-2016, 17:40
BellaRosa
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Audacious first episode! Intriguing to imagine where this series is going to go in terms of storyline?

Katie really looks to have grown up a lot overnight!

And where did the son come from I thought they only had a daughter.

I do enjoy this but cannot stand the one facial and one voice Gillian Anderson. Does she ever sound or look any different? She was in a film with Danny Dyer and she played the same character ... bland and boring.

I foresee that Spector will fully recover and then escape and the end of this series so they make another series.
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Old 30-09-2016, 17:55
SaturnV
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Just die already
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Old 30-09-2016, 18:16
Virgil Tracy
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what a lot of old guff .
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Old 30-09-2016, 18:43
Kayjay2405
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The son was there in the previous series, but only a toddler. I'm not sure it was a good idea to use the same child actors, although the little girl is very good, they've grown so much in "24 hours" that maybe new children should have been used?
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Old 30-09-2016, 19:08
Sadeyed
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I also find her whispering and dreamy gazing into the distance highly irritating, but I will be watching to see how the story continues.
Totally agree. How anyone can say she's BAFTA worthy for monotone whispering, accompanied by long staring pauses, is beyond me.
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Old 30-09-2016, 19:23
LostFool
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Felt more like a backdoor pilot for a new medical drama set in Belfast. Richard Coyle was good.
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Old 30-09-2016, 19:56
Liparus
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I thought it was an excellent opener. I have enjoyed the previous two series.

This isn't your run of the mill crime drama, in which someone gets murdered and then the killer caught, end of story - not that I mind those, I love a good Morse.

No, this is exploring the crimes, the investigation, the apprehension and fallout of the crimes.

I recall seeing a piece in a paper once about Peter Sutcliffe's dad, who was asked what it was like to find out his son was the Yorkshire ripper. He said, be thankful he's my son and not yours.

What will life be like for Spector's family? What about his victims relatives?
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Old 30-09-2016, 20:01
gomezz
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Seeing as how the perp, the victim and even the main copper spent the whole episode comatose then we didn't learn much new.
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Old 30-09-2016, 20:24
Dirty Rooster
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The head ER doctor had such a large part in this I wonder if he'll feature throughout the series.

The big question has already been asked : has Merlin had his ears done?

Will the beautiful nurse help Spector escape?

Will Scully eat that spleen? Does Spector need a new spleen? Time to google spleen...
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Old 30-09-2016, 23:49
Scorpio2
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And where did the son come from I thought they only had a daughter.

I do enjoy this but cannot stand the one facial and one voice Gillian Anderson. Does she ever sound or look any different? She was in a film with Danny Dyer and she played the same character ... bland and boring.

I foresee that Spector will fully recover and then escape and the end of this series so they make another series.
They've always had a son but rarely featured and the daughter was always the closest to Spector.

As for Stella well Gillian is playing her properly. Stella is meant to be a robotic kind of person that has no emotion and only cares about her job.
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Old 30-09-2016, 23:52
popeye13
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Yet another BBC series where the BBC doesn't use the 5.1 sound track!
Why bother making a 5.1 track and then not use it?!
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Old 30-09-2016, 23:54
Scorpio2
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Also am I the only one who thinks Katy will either kill or disfigure her friend?

Last series Paul called her beautiful and tried to goad Katy into throwing acid over her face so since she refused to help her and basically laughed with her other friends I can see Katy doing something like that.
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Old 01-10-2016, 06:08
roddydogs
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As if she would (or be allowed) to wander round with blood all over her, especially in a hospital Police have very strict rules re blood & saliva. And would a theatre be left like that?
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Old 01-10-2016, 14:52
Faust
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Yet another BBC series where the BBC doesn't use the 5.1 sound track!
Why bother making a 5.1 track and then not use it?!
I expect as a percentage of the general population those with a 5.1 setup are miniscule. Costs are paramount for a PSB.
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Old 01-10-2016, 14:58
Batch
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I was disappointed that the BBC cancelled The Fall and mostly replaced it with a more medically competent Casualty.

Still plenty of scope with the story I suppose in the aftermath, hopefully it'll be interesting to see which direction it now goes.
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Old 01-10-2016, 18:47
popeye13
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I expect as a percentage of the general population those with a 5.1 setup are miniscule. Costs are paramount for a PSB.
So make a 5.1 sound track but not use it cost effective in your book then?
And so what if the number of people using a 5,1 set up being small, we have it for a reason and if a programme is produced with 5.1, use that sound track!
The BBC have yet again elected not to use the 5.1 track, that is a waste of money, even more so when you consider that they produce things like Final Score with 5.1.
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Old 01-10-2016, 22:24
sunhillpc1
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Series 1 was broadcast on BBC2 on Mondays. Why did the BBC decide to broadcast series 2 and 3 on Thursdays?
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